Nope, sorry, I can't find it in myself to mourn Kirk's death. I mourn gun deaths in general, but not his. He was an absolutely horrible person who even claimed a few gun deaths a year is the price to be paid for the 2nd Amendment. Live by the gun, die by the gun.
Just to clarify, I do not in any way, shape or form support his assassination. No one should die that way. I feel for his family and friends, but I will not 'mourn' his death.
Flags and medals for all friends of the president who shoot their mouths off and die. You know, Rush Limbaugh, Charlie Kirk, hey, maybe Rudy and Alex Jones.
Thank you, Tracy, for so eloquently stating what I have been thinking. Kirk was a despicable racist, a misogynist and dangerous homophobe with a very loud megaphone. He was a toxic provocateur leading a successful youth movement. Let’s be frank. Kirk’s mission was to brainwash gullible young people into becoming foot soldiers for the radical right, just like my parents were groomed by the Hitler Youth starting at age 10. The comparison is stark and chilling.
What alarms me even more, is the news that Kirk’s murder exposes fractures in Dump’s Maga cult, where the various sub-factions are now fighting each other. The shooter was allegedly an adherent of Nick Fuentes’ scary Groyper movement. As Lev Parnas explains:
“He (Tyler Robinson) became part of the “Groypers,” a far-right youth movement built around Nick Fuentes. The Groypers aren’t just another wing of MAGA; they are openly white nationalist, anti-Semitic, and extreme in ways that even mainstream MAGA sometimes tries to hide. Their strategy has been to infiltrate conservative circles, harassing leaders like Charlie Kirk who they see as too establishment, too weak, or too pro-Israel. They call themselves the true heirs of the movement, and they target young men online with a toxic brew of nationalism, hate, and identity politics.”
"hoax" -- a word that in Trumpspeak simply means "annoying facts that I wish to deny and ignore." He doesn't even bother to try to put together a plausible denial. He just labels it "hoax" and that takes care of it in his addled mind and the minds of his brainwashed cult followers.
Donna, I assume Dump will say nothing and continue to blame the left, but behind the scenes, you know his regime is freaking out. They created and emboldened this monster (more like a multi-headed hydra) and it continues to grow and fight itself. Scary as hell!
Another scary element is the violent gaming subculture that a lot of these far-right young guys are involved with. Aaron Parnas posted this today:
“Investigators discovered that bullet casings at the scene of Charlie Kirk’s killing were scrawled with cryptic internet and gaming references—including a Helldivers 2 bomb command sequence, memes like “Notices bulges OwO what’s this?” and “If you read this, you are GAY Lmao,” and the antifascist anthem Bella Ciao—suggesting shooter Tyler Robinson, a 22-year-old student, was drawing from online subcultures rather than a clear political ideology; records show he was a registered but non-voting Utahn with Republican parents.”
Hi nmgirl. According to news sources, the rifle used in the shooting, with extra unspent rounds, was found wrapped in a towel in a nearby wooded area. Details in this USA Today article, updated yesterday:
Steve 218: No one wants to admit that, probably partly because its truth is "fuzzy" and everyone knows the other side is saturated with moral lint-picking extremism and with those who go crickets if it's their guy and ballistic if it "ours."
But neither do I see allot of double-speak, systematic gaslighting, shamelessness, . . . the idea of going after a lawyer for doing their job in a democracy where rule of law still holds tells the whole story of a return to corrupt ideological tribalism at the top.
And then we have to deal with Chump Trump where everyone in the world is trying to steer around his competitive ignorance and nefarious intentions. It won't be long before they'll find a "good reason" to tear down a certain statue in that harbor up north.
nmgirl: This means that there is no racism for a group that doesn't allow black people (or x fill in the blank) into their ranks (a special place for sports and entertainment, but still "isms" deep down in people's core understanding of the world. Trump speaks from that kind of mentality.
Everyone white was fine with regular two+ party politics until the numbers between "white" and "others" became unbalanced on the side of the "others." Then we find the group who was concretely in power, in an odd metaphor, showed their racist/sexist/classist colors, e.g., going against voting rights, gerrymandering, defunding "diversity" programs, firing from those "other" groups, etc.; and trashing anything that might make things truly equal politically and socially.
The liberal fallacy: "We" thought we were getting rid of racism, sexism, classism, religious bigotry, etc., but the group of biases were only asleep because it was still in power politically and socially--freedom means THEIR freedom, but only as inside their own self-identified group.
Great Big Silly Us. Other people gaining equality still feels like an existential threat to a large group of unreflective white males, and for white women against blacks and even other white females the others .
Charlie Kirk may have been an awful person, but that doesn't mean his death wasn't wrong. Nobody deserves to be assassinated. Not even someone who is okay with some gun deaths. His death deeply affects his wife and children, and his parents, too, if they are still alive. I believe that all assassinations are wrong. Period.
Agree. Anyone killed by gun or actually any killing is wrong. I also agree that we are not required to mourn such a man. (Including whether it was by natural causes, murder or suicide)
I take your point that we are not required to mourn a man such as Charlie Kirk. The people I feel sorry for are his kids, because they will miss their dad. But then again, with their mom's attitude they very well may also grow up to be haters.
At least they may have a chance to grow up…Unless another senseless shooting happens at their school. It’s a f’in crap shoot out there. Our congress-most of them-are scared, ineffective cowards. They seem to be in it for themselves-not their constituents. I have as much empathy for CKs kids as I do for the families who lost their children and family members in all the school shootings, and I hold plenty of contempt for those who refuse to enact laws that could help diffuse gun violence. Face it-no one “in power” is willing to even back common sense gun laws. Why? My guess is -Money and greed-and maybe fear of losing their job….
A chance to grow up can be good. There are some really good activist people in the House, including my rep - Veronica Escobar, plus Jasmine Crockett, Maxwell Frost and AOC. Money, greed, and power are definite factors in much congressional behavior, and these days, losing their job is definitely a factor, given all the primary threats that are out there. I also feel like there are a serious lack of morals and conscience.
You've got a good point there. Those deaths are fine so long as they happen to "others". If he doesn't think now that gun deaths are okay, maybe he could come back to haunt republican legislators and get them to vote for serious gun legislation, with veto-proof majorities… BTW, I read an article about his wife's attitude, and it makes me wonder exactly how much mourning she will do.
I listened, and to me she is scary. She sounded threatening a lot of the time. She also managed to drop her voice below my hearing threshold when she was saying important things. It bothered me that she quoted my favorite bible verse: Romans 8:28 as if it were true for her husband. Sorry but I have a hard time believing that verse would be true for him. I apologize to God if I'm being judgmental here. I have a really hard time believing that Jesus is on the side of haters. I was glad to see some emotion coming from her, but there was something missing, like it wasn't deeply heartfelt? It's more like vengeance is more important than anything else.
That is just sick. And not surprising after listening to her. I'm amazed at how some people can make it sound like they're going to be doing something good, but in the end it's really only for themselves.
Gulp! Accepting any violence against anyone is the problem. The solution is condemning violence against anyone. Be part of the solution, not part of the problem.
Charlie Kirk got exactly what he said America deserves. No one should mourn Charlie Kirk's killing more than Charlie Kirk mourned other deaths due to gun violence. Kirk's own words are most relevant to whether to mourn Kirk's killing:
"I think it’s worth it to have a cost of, unfortunately, some gun deaths every single year so that we can have the second amendment to protect our other God-given rights. That is a prudent deal. It is rational."
– Event organized by TPUSA Faith, the religious arm of Kirk’s conservative group Turning Point USA, on 5 April 2023
Kirk (speaking for America) said "it's worth it," it "is a prudent deal. It is rational" to accept "some gun deaths every single year so that we can have the second amendment to protect our" other "rights." Kirk literally said we "have the second amendment" so that our rights regarding arms can (and should) be exercised "to protect our" other "rights." Kirk expressly emphasized that he saw "the second amendment" serving "to protect our" other "rights" by some people using firearms to inflict "some gun deaths every single year."
Kirk said even more that revealed the symmetry between his own words and his own death. Kirk's statement that I quoted above included his insistence that "The Second Amendment is there" precisely "so that you can defend yourself against a tyrannical government."
On The Charlie Kirk Show also in 2023 Kirk even advocated (at least) buying and actively bearing arms in public because "You have a government that hates you. You have a traitor as the president. Buy weapons, I keep on saying that. Buy weapons. Buy ammo. If you go into a public place, bring a gun with you." https://www.newsweek.com/bluesky-chariie-kirk-assassination-warning-2128023
Are we certain about that, or did he morph into one on his own? Did his parents encourage him to watch programs and think this way? It's the old nature or nurture conflict. We need more answers.
If only we could have as much uproar and attention and disgust when our children are being gunned down in their own schools. If only we had some action from our congress to enact some laws to at least slow down if not eliminate access to military type weapons-pass and enact common sense gun laws!-
Wow. Thank you for this incredibly comprehensive and valuable column - your own summary at the beginning and the links to significant words & exchanges of others on vital relevant topics. I will share with my "reliable information" mailing list across the country. Grateful for this and all you dedicated Contrarian patriots.
According to the Anti-Defamation League, the vast majority of extremist-related murders over the last decade were committed by far-right extremists, 76%. In contrast, 4% were committed by left-wing extremists including anarchists and Black nationalists. Domestic Islamist extremists committed 18%, and a miscellaneous category was 1%.
The Southern Poverty Law Center reports the same in its mission to dismantle white supremacy. From the SPLC website:
Hate Violence is on the Rise
The number of hate-based crimes continues to increase each year, with individuals being targeted for their race, religion, sexual orientation, gender identity and more. However, incomplete data does not capture the true severity of the problem.
The Far Right Fuels Extremism
More than 1,500 hard-right extremist groups operate across the country, pushing white supremacy, white Christian nationalism, antigovernment sentiment, antisemitism and other dangerous ideologies.
You know that T*ump will be repeating his lies that the left is responsible for Kirk's assassination, despite the evidence to the contrary. It's always about the enemies, be they terrorists, immigrants or Democrats.
If they don't ask him why he thinks people can't watch teevee when the wind isn't blowing, they certainly aren't going to ask him this. Add to that, he never apologizes or takes responsibility for anything, unless he can brag about it.
It's getting more to be that the 'enemies' are anyone who disagrees with Trump. They may not even have a declared party affiliation. He seems to have gravitated from the 'us against them' to the perrenial victim of 'me against the world'. Mental deterioration will do this.
Kirk's wife has issued a call to arms for her side and Dems do NOT have to be the only adults in the room once again! It NEVER works out well for us. It is clear that Trump and MAGA intends to use this tragedy to the way they always do. Dems CANNOT allow themselves to be rolled over like we always do. Kirk was an abominable human being. People getting fired for expressing the truth need to sue like crazy to get their jobs back with damages!
Yes, if Kirk was free to spew his hateful bigotry, and he was, then those who disagree should be--indeed are--free to point out how hateful his words were. Being murdered does not give one a pass for bad conduct. (And words are conduct.)
she even used her teary (apparantly only her left eye was crying) address to the nation to give a commercial for charlie kirk.com...afraid to lose her meal ticket I guess...don't come back at me for this, she told her 3 yr old when asked where's daddy? , daddy is on a business trip with jesus. I watched fox "news" because I wanted to hear what she had to say, hoping she would be healing WWJD ....I was sad to be disappointed....
Soon enough she'll likely take her late husband's place on the Turning Point circuit, raking in even more $$$$ for the sympathy generates. Will she continue to be the kind of stay-at-home-mom her husband--and she herself--preached at young women and urged them to emulate? Or will the possibility of fame, fortune and center-stage celebrity make her a convert to a strange kind of feminism...
she'll be out there because "charlie and god" would want her to be there carrying on the sacred work of making everyone pure for only ...fill in amt. of $$$$$$$
"Why was the flag put to half-staff after the killing of Charlie Kirk but not Minnesota politician Melissa Hortman?"
Because Charlie Kirk was a racist, a bigot, a misogynist, and a liar. Those are the qualities the short-fingered vulgarian likes in a person. Also, Hortman doesn't count for anything, since she was both a Democrat and a woman.
That would really be too much ! There are ghosts in the capital and a black cat that stalks around the crypt in times of national crisis......they could take care of that...
The NY Times published an article today headlined "How Law Enforcement Got the Man Suspected of Killing Charlie Kirk. FBI touted the immense federal deployment assigned to find the assassin."
In the reader comments, no one bought it, and chastised NYT for misinformation, flattery, puffery. I find that reader pushback encouraging.
I canceled WAPO, but decided to keep NYT for its valuable features, not the editorial. And, as you see from my comment here, for reader responses and pushback.
I look at reader response to articles everywhere - you learn a lot.
I agree that readers' comments were often the best part of a NYT article. I cancelled WAPO in February. ant finally this month cancelled the NYT because of it's faux (if you will) left-leaning bent. I couldn't tolerate any more their coverage of the president and didn't want to continue giving them $$$. But we all choose our battles and I still belong to Amazon Prime.
I agree with you Donna, and it's difficult to do it all.
I'm immersed in politics but need a palate cleanser through other interests. NYT's Cooking, Wired, Arts, Books, Lifestyle, and Metropolitan Diary offer that. And somehow a few good opinion writers remain. So I kept the subscription, a love-hate choice.
"Regrettably he [the orange narcissist felon] fanned the flames." Not good enough.
He did much more. He jumped into his tanker truck of gasoline and pumped all he could onto the national misery of which he is a primary author.
Meanwhile, the putative 'congress' and the putative 'supreme' court stand by, hands in pockets, fire extinguishers not even evident, gravely derelict in their Constitutional duty, as the nation burns in misery.
1. "Radical left." Problem is they didn't name an individual, thus not really actionable defamation. But the media that republished the lies should have a duty to apologize.
Headlines: MAGAt KILLED MAGAt.
2. When are you going to ask Thomas and Alito to recuse from Trump cases?
There should be outrage that any American can be shot at random in this way. But where is the outrage against Donald Trump's order to kill 11 people in a boat in international waters? Isn't this equally horrible and equally dangerous?
How much do you want to stop the Rat and the fascist takeover of the country?
Enough that you’re willing to make a small sacrifice? Like altering your spending habits for a month or two or three? That could be all it would take to get the attention of the oligarchs (formerly known as The Robber Barons in the first Gilded Age, also The Fat Cats, The Greedy Bastards).
A brief demonstration of We, the People’s, power of the purse could persuade them to quit supporting the Rat and the Ratsucking politicians who enable him.
We quit spending, except on essentials, businesses lose money, stock market goes down, Greedy Bastards pay attention to our demands.
Greedy Bastards own most of the politicians of both major parties. GBs start losing money, tell politicians to change course and do what We, the People want.
We are running out of peaceful options. The legislature and Supreme Court are controlled by the Rat. He controls the executive branch, including the Military, Justice Department, FBI, ICE, the IRS. He controls all levers of power.
We, the people, still have the power of the purse. No one can control our spending, or lack of spending. When all else fails we can go on a spending strike until the business community stops supporting the Rat and the politicians who enable him.
Economic warfare is the only thing the oligarchs, the business community will understand and act on. Call it a Surreptitious General Strike (Quiet Quitting). Go to work, do as little as possible. Stop spending money except on essentials. Quit feeding the corporate beast that supports the Rat.
Stop participating. Nearly 70% of the U.S. economy is driven by consumer spending. All of us. Hobble the economy and the stock market. Mahatma Gandhi drove the British from India by peaceful civil disobedience. We can stop the fascist takeover in the same way.
We can keep rehashing past and present atrocities until our access to the internet is taken away by the regime, or we can DO something!
As we decry gun violence, or knife violence, or any violence using weapons against a person's body, I think it is important to expand our notion of violence to include the ways in which words can be used to harm others by fomenting hatred and instigating violence against them or by demeaning and dehumanizing them; the ways in which poverty is a form of violence that destroys human potential and lives; pollution and degradation of the environment as forms of violence that sicken and kill; voter suppression which denies citizens a role in changing our society for the better; and and many more violences perpetrated everyday against our fellow humans, and especially against those who are poor, brown or black.
Yes, we must decry all murders and assassinations, including government-sponsored executions, but we must also understand the myriad forms that violence takes. Charlie Kirk participated in and profited mightily off of speech that was demeaning and dehumanizing. He said on his show that black women "do not have the brain processing power to otherwise be taken really seriously. You had to go steal a white person's slot to go be taken somewhat seriously." Let us recognize that reality, too, while we condemn the manner of his untimely death.
I worked with a Dr. who said black women weren't smart enough to be nurses. I knew that was not true, and of course said so. I wish I had known about the hidden figures story back then...
Great words from Norm as always. Kirks' killing is horrific. The exploitation of his murder to make partisan political points is at least as objectionable. No surprise that the president is leading this partisan response.
No sane person thinks political violence, assassinations -- and their only slightly less lethal cousin of toxic sludge: doxxing -- is a solution to anything. It the laziest, stupidest of responses to any challenge, difficulty or trade-off you could think of. A targeted political assassination -- together with hair-trigger state responses to it -- was the spark that ignited the First World War, if we remember, which killed nearly 15 million people for no particular reason whatever.
The silliness of public discussion surrounding most of our political violence, and a huge quantity of our ghastly school shootings, now sadly as common as senior proms, serve as cul-de-sacs for tens of millions of lazy minds unwilling to accept the possibility that two things (if not more) can both be true at the same time, without cancelling each other out.
Americans are obsessed with their weapons, and we own hundreds of millions of guns and rifles. And our political institutions are bitterly divided -- far more than people themselves.may be. But the violence? It feels much more psychiatric than political (spoken just as an observer since I've no formal medical training). Social media, video gaming (where emotionally stunted young men sometimes disappear into a wholly artificial existence), insecure/toxic, immature masculinity, some life crisis or other all seem to combine to form something not just horrendously toxic, but explosive.
This the fright-wing shapers of fear and outrage miss completely. Theirs is the most simple-minded -- and most misplaced -- of all narratives out there. And many on the left latch only onto the absence of gun regulation alone, ignoring overwhelming evidence that we have a profound 'young man' problem, not just a gun one.
Something dreadful is happening to our society. We best get very, very smart about it because it's going to get worse.
Nope, sorry, I can't find it in myself to mourn Kirk's death. I mourn gun deaths in general, but not his. He was an absolutely horrible person who even claimed a few gun deaths a year is the price to be paid for the 2nd Amendment. Live by the gun, die by the gun.
Just to clarify, I do not in any way, shape or form support his assassination. No one should die that way. I feel for his family and friends, but I will not 'mourn' his death.
I think assassination is too “elevated” a term for this. I call it a murder. Heads of state are assassinated.
Agreed. The term is making him greater than he was. It's clear enough to say that he was killed. And flags at half-staff - ridiculous,
Flags and medals for all friends of the president who shoot their mouths off and die. You know, Rush Limbaugh, Charlie Kirk, hey, maybe Rudy and Alex Jones.
Surely that's sarcasm. If not, consider that it devalues the symbolism of both.
Didn't think I'd have to /s. That's how Trump acts with any of "his" people. Accolades and pardons for them, insults and oppression for us.
But that’s just my opinion.
And it's a valid one.
Thank you, Tracy, for so eloquently stating what I have been thinking. Kirk was a despicable racist, a misogynist and dangerous homophobe with a very loud megaphone. He was a toxic provocateur leading a successful youth movement. Let’s be frank. Kirk’s mission was to brainwash gullible young people into becoming foot soldiers for the radical right, just like my parents were groomed by the Hitler Youth starting at age 10. The comparison is stark and chilling.
What alarms me even more, is the news that Kirk’s murder exposes fractures in Dump’s Maga cult, where the various sub-factions are now fighting each other. The shooter was allegedly an adherent of Nick Fuentes’ scary Groyper movement. As Lev Parnas explains:
“He (Tyler Robinson) became part of the “Groypers,” a far-right youth movement built around Nick Fuentes. The Groypers aren’t just another wing of MAGA; they are openly white nationalist, anti-Semitic, and extreme in ways that even mainstream MAGA sometimes tries to hide. Their strategy has been to infiltrate conservative circles, harassing leaders like Charlie Kirk who they see as too establishment, too weak, or too pro-Israel. They call themselves the true heirs of the movement, and they target young men online with a toxic brew of nationalism, hate, and identity politics.”
Wow, I'd never heard of the Groypers. If Tyler is a far-righter, what irony. What will the president say about that, I wonder???
Probably nothing, or perhaps, "Fake news, made up by the Democrats."
"hoax" -- a word that in Trumpspeak simply means "annoying facts that I wish to deny and ignore." He doesn't even bother to try to put together a plausible denial. He just labels it "hoax" and that takes care of it in his addled mind and the minds of his brainwashed cult followers.
Donna, I assume Dump will say nothing and continue to blame the left, but behind the scenes, you know his regime is freaking out. They created and emboldened this monster (more like a multi-headed hydra) and it continues to grow and fight itself. Scary as hell!
Another scary element is the violent gaming subculture that a lot of these far-right young guys are involved with. Aaron Parnas posted this today:
“Investigators discovered that bullet casings at the scene of Charlie Kirk’s killing were scrawled with cryptic internet and gaming references—including a Helldivers 2 bomb command sequence, memes like “Notices bulges OwO what’s this?” and “If you read this, you are GAY Lmao,” and the antifascist anthem Bella Ciao—suggesting shooter Tyler Robinson, a 22-year-old student, was drawing from online subcultures rather than a clear political ideology; records show he was a registered but non-voting Utahn with Republican parents.”
WOW ! Thanks for the info, I thought they were just losers living in their parents basement playing video games all day!!
If only!
If he fired one shot, why do people keep saying multiple casings? Did he leave the rifle behind?
Hi nmgirl. According to news sources, the rifle used in the shooting, with extra unspent rounds, was found wrapped in a towel in a nearby wooded area. Details in this USA Today article, updated yesterday:
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2025/09/11/fbi-recovers-bolt-action-rifle-used-in-shooting-of-charlie-kirk/86093324007/
Good people on both sides. Remember?
Riiight. So how is it that the violence and violent language comes from one side?
yeah ! Also these MAGA morons don't understand that stopping USAID and SNAP is a form of violence
Steve 218: No one wants to admit that, probably partly because its truth is "fuzzy" and everyone knows the other side is saturated with moral lint-picking extremism and with those who go crickets if it's their guy and ballistic if it "ours."
But neither do I see allot of double-speak, systematic gaslighting, shamelessness, . . . the idea of going after a lawyer for doing their job in a democracy where rule of law still holds tells the whole story of a return to corrupt ideological tribalism at the top.
And then we have to deal with Chump Trump where everyone in the world is trying to steer around his competitive ignorance and nefarious intentions. It won't be long before they'll find a "good reason" to tear down a certain statue in that harbor up north.
nmgirl: This means that there is no racism for a group that doesn't allow black people (or x fill in the blank) into their ranks (a special place for sports and entertainment, but still "isms" deep down in people's core understanding of the world. Trump speaks from that kind of mentality.
Everyone white was fine with regular two+ party politics until the numbers between "white" and "others" became unbalanced on the side of the "others." Then we find the group who was concretely in power, in an odd metaphor, showed their racist/sexist/classist colors, e.g., going against voting rights, gerrymandering, defunding "diversity" programs, firing from those "other" groups, etc.; and trashing anything that might make things truly equal politically and socially.
The liberal fallacy: "We" thought we were getting rid of racism, sexism, classism, religious bigotry, etc., but the group of biases were only asleep because it was still in power politically and socially--freedom means THEIR freedom, but only as inside their own self-identified group.
Great Big Silly Us. Other people gaining equality still feels like an existential threat to a large group of unreflective white males, and for white women against blacks and even other white females the others .
Charlie Kirk may have been an awful person, but that doesn't mean his death wasn't wrong. Nobody deserves to be assassinated. Not even someone who is okay with some gun deaths. His death deeply affects his wife and children, and his parents, too, if they are still alive. I believe that all assassinations are wrong. Period.
Agree. Anyone killed by gun or actually any killing is wrong. I also agree that we are not required to mourn such a man. (Including whether it was by natural causes, murder or suicide)
I take your point that we are not required to mourn a man such as Charlie Kirk. The people I feel sorry for are his kids, because they will miss their dad. But then again, with their mom's attitude they very well may also grow up to be haters.
At least they may have a chance to grow up…Unless another senseless shooting happens at their school. It’s a f’in crap shoot out there. Our congress-most of them-are scared, ineffective cowards. They seem to be in it for themselves-not their constituents. I have as much empathy for CKs kids as I do for the families who lost their children and family members in all the school shootings, and I hold plenty of contempt for those who refuse to enact laws that could help diffuse gun violence. Face it-no one “in power” is willing to even back common sense gun laws. Why? My guess is -Money and greed-and maybe fear of losing their job….
A chance to grow up can be good. There are some really good activist people in the House, including my rep - Veronica Escobar, plus Jasmine Crockett, Maxwell Frost and AOC. Money, greed, and power are definite factors in much congressional behavior, and these days, losing their job is definitely a factor, given all the primary threats that are out there. I also feel like there are a serious lack of morals and conscience.
yeah, but remember charlie was OK with some deaths to have the 2nd amendment, not sure he thinks that now...
You've got a good point there. Those deaths are fine so long as they happen to "others". If he doesn't think now that gun deaths are okay, maybe he could come back to haunt republican legislators and get them to vote for serious gun legislation, with veto-proof majorities… BTW, I read an article about his wife's attitude, and it makes me wonder exactly how much mourning she will do.
she is definitely one of "them" the jesus is on our side righteous crowd. if you can, listen to her address on fox "news" last night...
I listened, and to me she is scary. She sounded threatening a lot of the time. She also managed to drop her voice below my hearing threshold when she was saying important things. It bothered me that she quoted my favorite bible verse: Romans 8:28 as if it were true for her husband. Sorry but I have a hard time believing that verse would be true for him. I apologize to God if I'm being judgmental here. I have a really hard time believing that Jesus is on the side of haters. I was glad to see some emotion coming from her, but there was something missing, like it wasn't deeply heartfelt? It's more like vengeance is more important than anything else.
no worries...God knows SHE is the one who will be apologizing to Him...besides I think God wants us to speak out about abusers of His word.
also, remember Jesus tore the temple up pretty good !
She wants Kirk’s right-wing hatemongering gravy train to continue. Hitler got rich from sales of “Mein Kampf” too.
That is just sick. And not surprising after listening to her. I'm amazed at how some people can make it sound like they're going to be doing something good, but in the end it's really only for themselves.
Gulp! Accepting any violence against anyone is the problem. The solution is condemning violence against anyone. Be part of the solution, not part of the problem.
Like sharks' teeth, someone will soon fill his place. He was a symptom, not the disease.
Charlie Kirk got exactly what he said America deserves. No one should mourn Charlie Kirk's killing more than Charlie Kirk mourned other deaths due to gun violence. Kirk's own words are most relevant to whether to mourn Kirk's killing:
"I think it’s worth it to have a cost of, unfortunately, some gun deaths every single year so that we can have the second amendment to protect our other God-given rights. That is a prudent deal. It is rational."
– Event organized by TPUSA Faith, the religious arm of Kirk’s conservative group Turning Point USA, on 5 April 2023
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/sep/11/charlie-kirk-quotes-beliefs
Kirk (speaking for America) said "it's worth it," it "is a prudent deal. It is rational" to accept "some gun deaths every single year so that we can have the second amendment to protect our" other "rights." Kirk literally said we "have the second amendment" so that our rights regarding arms can (and should) be exercised "to protect our" other "rights." Kirk expressly emphasized that he saw "the second amendment" serving "to protect our" other "rights" by some people using firearms to inflict "some gun deaths every single year."
Kirk said even more that revealed the symmetry between his own words and his own death. Kirk's statement that I quoted above included his insistence that "The Second Amendment is there" precisely "so that you can defend yourself against a tyrannical government."
On The Charlie Kirk Show also in 2023 Kirk even advocated (at least) buying and actively bearing arms in public because "You have a government that hates you. You have a traitor as the president. Buy weapons, I keep on saying that. Buy weapons. Buy ammo. If you go into a public place, bring a gun with you." https://www.newsweek.com/bluesky-chariie-kirk-assassination-warning-2128023
I feel far sorrier for his family. He will remain a mark upon them.
unfortunately, I think not ! he is a hero to the MAGGOTS
they raised him as a MAGAt.
Are we certain about that, or did he morph into one on his own? Did his parents encourage him to watch programs and think this way? It's the old nature or nurture conflict. We need more answers.
If only we could have as much uproar and attention and disgust when our children are being gunned down in their own schools. If only we had some action from our congress to enact some laws to at least slow down if not eliminate access to military type weapons-pass and enact common sense gun laws!-
Hypocrisy is a double edged sword
100% agree!
Wow. Thank you for this incredibly comprehensive and valuable column - your own summary at the beginning and the links to significant words & exchanges of others on vital relevant topics. I will share with my "reliable information" mailing list across the country. Grateful for this and all you dedicated Contrarian patriots.
According to the Anti-Defamation League, the vast majority of extremist-related murders over the last decade were committed by far-right extremists, 76%. In contrast, 4% were committed by left-wing extremists including anarchists and Black nationalists. Domestic Islamist extremists committed 18%, and a miscellaneous category was 1%.
The Southern Poverty Law Center reports the same in its mission to dismantle white supremacy. From the SPLC website:
Hate Violence is on the Rise
The number of hate-based crimes continues to increase each year, with individuals being targeted for their race, religion, sexual orientation, gender identity and more. However, incomplete data does not capture the true severity of the problem.
The Far Right Fuels Extremism
More than 1,500 hard-right extremist groups operate across the country, pushing white supremacy, white Christian nationalism, antigovernment sentiment, antisemitism and other dangerous ideologies.
More here: https://www.splcenter.org/racial-justice-issues/dismantling-white-supremacy/
SPLC has done fantastic work in documenting this for years.
You know that T*ump will be repeating his lies that the left is responsible for Kirk's assassination, despite the evidence to the contrary. It's always about the enemies, be they terrorists, immigrants or Democrats.
So who in the White House press corps will ask Trump the question: Will you apologize?
If they don't ask him why he thinks people can't watch teevee when the wind isn't blowing, they certainly aren't going to ask him this. Add to that, he never apologizes or takes responsibility for anything, unless he can brag about it.
Failure to answer is what we call in the trade a "tacit" admission.
It's getting more to be that the 'enemies' are anyone who disagrees with Trump. They may not even have a declared party affiliation. He seems to have gravitated from the 'us against them' to the perrenial victim of 'me against the world'. Mental deterioration will do this.
Kirk's wife has issued a call to arms for her side and Dems do NOT have to be the only adults in the room once again! It NEVER works out well for us. It is clear that Trump and MAGA intends to use this tragedy to the way they always do. Dems CANNOT allow themselves to be rolled over like we always do. Kirk was an abominable human being. People getting fired for expressing the truth need to sue like crazy to get their jobs back with damages!
Yes, if Kirk was free to spew his hateful bigotry, and he was, then those who disagree should be--indeed are--free to point out how hateful his words were. Being murdered does not give one a pass for bad conduct. (And words are conduct.)
she even used her teary (apparantly only her left eye was crying) address to the nation to give a commercial for charlie kirk.com...afraid to lose her meal ticket I guess...don't come back at me for this, she told her 3 yr old when asked where's daddy? , daddy is on a business trip with jesus. I watched fox "news" because I wanted to hear what she had to say, hoping she would be healing WWJD ....I was sad to be disappointed....
Soon enough she'll likely take her late husband's place on the Turning Point circuit, raking in even more $$$$ for the sympathy generates. Will she continue to be the kind of stay-at-home-mom her husband--and she herself--preached at young women and urged them to emulate? Or will the possibility of fame, fortune and center-stage celebrity make her a convert to a strange kind of feminism...
she'll be out there because "charlie and god" would want her to be there carrying on the sacred work of making everyone pure for only ...fill in amt. of $$$$$$$
"Why was the flag put to half-staff after the killing of Charlie Kirk but not Minnesota politician Melissa Hortman?"
Because Charlie Kirk was a racist, a bigot, a misogynist, and a liar. Those are the qualities the short-fingered vulgarian likes in a person. Also, Hortman doesn't count for anything, since she was both a Democrat and a woman.
Has djt told the family that he will lay in state in the rotunda yet? Or will he demand he be buried at Arlington?
That would really be too much ! There are ghosts in the capital and a black cat that stalks around the crypt in times of national crisis......they could take care of that...
The NY Times published an article today headlined "How Law Enforcement Got the Man Suspected of Killing Charlie Kirk. FBI touted the immense federal deployment assigned to find the assassin."
In the reader comments, no one bought it, and chastised NYT for misinformation, flattery, puffery. I find that reader pushback encouraging.
You still subscribe??
I canceled WAPO, but decided to keep NYT for its valuable features, not the editorial. And, as you see from my comment here, for reader responses and pushback.
I look at reader response to articles everywhere - you learn a lot.
I agree that readers' comments were often the best part of a NYT article. I cancelled WAPO in February. ant finally this month cancelled the NYT because of it's faux (if you will) left-leaning bent. I couldn't tolerate any more their coverage of the president and didn't want to continue giving them $$$. But we all choose our battles and I still belong to Amazon Prime.
I agree with you Donna, and it's difficult to do it all.
I'm immersed in politics but need a palate cleanser through other interests. NYT's Cooking, Wired, Arts, Books, Lifestyle, and Metropolitan Diary offer that. And somehow a few good opinion writers remain. So I kept the subscription, a love-hate choice.
I agree that you can learn a lot. But, respectfully, then what?
I think it's good to know what "they" are saying
Yes, it's like commenting on something from a headline, video clip, or brief excerpt without knowing the entirety. But ugh.
Also respectfully, reading the NYT is not all I do, Dr. Schlesinger.
But assume what you wish, judge away, that's okay.
Your profile looks interesting, especially the music and gardening.
"Regrettably he [the orange narcissist felon] fanned the flames." Not good enough.
He did much more. He jumped into his tanker truck of gasoline and pumped all he could onto the national misery of which he is a primary author.
Meanwhile, the putative 'congress' and the putative 'supreme' court stand by, hands in pockets, fire extinguishers not even evident, gravely derelict in their Constitutional duty, as the nation burns in misery.
Triple shame.
OK Norm. Re political violence.
1. "Radical left." Problem is they didn't name an individual, thus not really actionable defamation. But the media that republished the lies should have a duty to apologize.
Headlines: MAGAt KILLED MAGAt.
2. When are you going to ask Thomas and Alito to recuse from Trump cases?
Daniel, what's your argument for recusal?
There should be outrage that any American can be shot at random in this way. But where is the outrage against Donald Trump's order to kill 11 people in a boat in international waters? Isn't this equally horrible and equally dangerous?
How much do you want to stop the Rat and the fascist takeover of the country?
Enough that you’re willing to make a small sacrifice? Like altering your spending habits for a month or two or three? That could be all it would take to get the attention of the oligarchs (formerly known as The Robber Barons in the first Gilded Age, also The Fat Cats, The Greedy Bastards).
A brief demonstration of We, the People’s, power of the purse could persuade them to quit supporting the Rat and the Ratsucking politicians who enable him.
We quit spending, except on essentials, businesses lose money, stock market goes down, Greedy Bastards pay attention to our demands.
Greedy Bastards own most of the politicians of both major parties. GBs start losing money, tell politicians to change course and do what We, the People want.
We are running out of peaceful options. The legislature and Supreme Court are controlled by the Rat. He controls the executive branch, including the Military, Justice Department, FBI, ICE, the IRS. He controls all levers of power.
We, the people, still have the power of the purse. No one can control our spending, or lack of spending. When all else fails we can go on a spending strike until the business community stops supporting the Rat and the politicians who enable him.
Economic warfare is the only thing the oligarchs, the business community will understand and act on. Call it a Surreptitious General Strike (Quiet Quitting). Go to work, do as little as possible. Stop spending money except on essentials. Quit feeding the corporate beast that supports the Rat.
Stop participating. Nearly 70% of the U.S. economy is driven by consumer spending. All of us. Hobble the economy and the stock market. Mahatma Gandhi drove the British from India by peaceful civil disobedience. We can stop the fascist takeover in the same way.
We can keep rehashing past and present atrocities until our access to the internet is taken away by the regime, or we can DO something!
Now is the time for this Peaceful Solution.
Next, Part 2-Why this is the best option.
Then, Part 3-How to accomplish this.
the boycot of target was very successful,bus boycot in alabama also
As we decry gun violence, or knife violence, or any violence using weapons against a person's body, I think it is important to expand our notion of violence to include the ways in which words can be used to harm others by fomenting hatred and instigating violence against them or by demeaning and dehumanizing them; the ways in which poverty is a form of violence that destroys human potential and lives; pollution and degradation of the environment as forms of violence that sicken and kill; voter suppression which denies citizens a role in changing our society for the better; and and many more violences perpetrated everyday against our fellow humans, and especially against those who are poor, brown or black.
Yes, we must decry all murders and assassinations, including government-sponsored executions, but we must also understand the myriad forms that violence takes. Charlie Kirk participated in and profited mightily off of speech that was demeaning and dehumanizing. He said on his show that black women "do not have the brain processing power to otherwise be taken really seriously. You had to go steal a white person's slot to go be taken somewhat seriously." Let us recognize that reality, too, while we condemn the manner of his untimely death.
I worked with a Dr. who said black women weren't smart enough to be nurses. I knew that was not true, and of course said so. I wish I had known about the hidden figures story back then...
Trump or any member of his immediate staff incapable of a response which requires thoughtful consideration of its impact on this nation as a whole.
Great words from Norm as always. Kirks' killing is horrific. The exploitation of his murder to make partisan political points is at least as objectionable. No surprise that the president is leading this partisan response.
No sane person thinks political violence, assassinations -- and their only slightly less lethal cousin of toxic sludge: doxxing -- is a solution to anything. It the laziest, stupidest of responses to any challenge, difficulty or trade-off you could think of. A targeted political assassination -- together with hair-trigger state responses to it -- was the spark that ignited the First World War, if we remember, which killed nearly 15 million people for no particular reason whatever.
The silliness of public discussion surrounding most of our political violence, and a huge quantity of our ghastly school shootings, now sadly as common as senior proms, serve as cul-de-sacs for tens of millions of lazy minds unwilling to accept the possibility that two things (if not more) can both be true at the same time, without cancelling each other out.
Americans are obsessed with their weapons, and we own hundreds of millions of guns and rifles. And our political institutions are bitterly divided -- far more than people themselves.may be. But the violence? It feels much more psychiatric than political (spoken just as an observer since I've no formal medical training). Social media, video gaming (where emotionally stunted young men sometimes disappear into a wholly artificial existence), insecure/toxic, immature masculinity, some life crisis or other all seem to combine to form something not just horrendously toxic, but explosive.
This the fright-wing shapers of fear and outrage miss completely. Theirs is the most simple-minded -- and most misplaced -- of all narratives out there. And many on the left latch only onto the absence of gun regulation alone, ignoring overwhelming evidence that we have a profound 'young man' problem, not just a gun one.
Something dreadful is happening to our society. We best get very, very smart about it because it's going to get worse.
Thank you, Norm! Your wisdom in the crises we are facing in this nation is most appreciated. Proud to support the Contrarians!