Three cheers for Judge Coughenour. A federal judge is in a position to be less bullied and intimidated by Donald Trump. May many more of these orders/edicts finish up in the courts and be weighed against the laws of the land and the constitution.
"Government" would do just fine without the influences of the current iteration of the Republican party, the invasive project 2025, and the special interests that warp the mission away from serving the many people to serving few entitled wealthy donors. What needs overhauling (or preferably replacement) is the Republican Party.
Project 2025 was known about a LONG time ago, but nobody seemed to wake up. Maybe because it was so neatly and professionally presented? Just looked boring and too long to read?
It isn't even Trump. He's just signing EOs written by the lackeys at the Heritage Foundation trying to implement the fantasy world they live in. He has no idea what he's signing, to him it's all theater.
To him it's just another episode in the reality TV show called "Trump, the 2nd Coming".
Well, he is utterly contemptible, but he does have a dementia visible to many physicians. All he has to do is be propped up as frontman and the giddy writers of Project 2025 get their fever dreams.
And, that is their goal: exhaust people with his avalanches of attacks on the Constitution and civil society. It is just the end of the first week of his regime. I imagine how we'll feel after a year, let alone 4.
I agree that Drumpf is just signing documents drafted by far more intelligent people, if not just as cruel & insensitive as he is. But I firmly believe that the author of this particular piece of crap is Stephen "Herr Heinrich" Miller, who seems to have a real hatred of immigrants. I'm sure that, if he could, he would have my birthright maternal grandparents (both long deceased) dug up and returned to Europe. Drumpf has surrounded himself with even more despicable people than during his first term.
I'd like to know precisely when Stephen Miller's ancestors arrived in the United States. His mommy's side has only been here since 1906. I bet he has some really nasty ancestral skeletons that would be exceedingly entertaining to expose to the light of day, splash all over social media and independent press, maybe some billboards along highways, and humiliate that fugly little five-head. Which reminds me. He's only what, 39? He looks like the product of multi-generational, intentional, CLOSE inbreeding.
Phteven Miller reminds me of the newest 3D reproductions of Tutankhamun, minus the tragedy or the excuse of medical ignorance.
And if he would have to do that for you, Stan, he'd have to do it for a helluva lot more! I, too, am a granddaughter of immigrants and, no matter how deeply I have searched, have never found any indication that my maternal grandfather ever became an American citizen. How big is that boat? God help us all!!
Nothing surer. We've seen unfit presidents before, but never to this degree of mania. "President" means what? One who presides. Today's kings, and there are still a few, don't rule, they embody love of country, and rubber-stamp the laws enacted by the government.
I'm glad the judge issued a TRO on this and there are other lawsuits about this EO. There was a lot of reporting on "birth tourism" by Russian women when Trump was in the WH the first time, and stories about his properties being used for this purpose. Maybe someone should ask Trump about this.
Don't you just love that in his scripted inaugural address that trump gave a shout out to black & Hispanic voters that turned out for him & helped him win. Didn't he say something about helping those communities? Well, gee, I guess he didn't mean it. Who would 'ever' think that he would lie?! Oh, it could never happen, right?
So congratulations to all the voters out there that got duped AGAIN! How's that old saying go? Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me! Well, seems to me we could say "fool me every day & I'll believe it". Then we could add another old standard. There's a sucker born every minute. I think we need to upgrade that to there are millions of suckers born every minute when it comes to the siren song sung by trump.
But there may be one bright spot that may help us. Hubris! Yes, hubris! Thanks to his enormous, outsized ego he seems to think that those cheering, fawning crowds at his rallies populate the entire country. I guess he hasn't noticed that he received less than 50% of the vote & those that voted against him have something to say!
Stonewall, I get where you're going and it took a duper village to elect the ass, however, it was painfully obvious that the Latin community would suffer whereas the white community would be spared of at least part of the disastrous consequences of the vote. It's hard to imagine a minority being duped because it was obvious how racist the administration would be. I think the media capture is the story. They are in an echo chamber of disinformation. By that I mean virtually all Trump voters.
Do you think they were not? Before the election, we did not have this platform to showcase what efforts were being made; certainly the national legacy media did not note it.
I believe you. The legacy and social media amplified Right wing propaganda, and suppressed democratic voices. I too am glad that new sources of news are springing up.
As you are already aware, ICE has begun raids here in California even before Trump was inaugurated. The raids around Bakersfield focused on agricultural workers picking fruit. The border patrol contended they were undocumented; the union contends otherwise and notes that some were in fact here legally but what struck me was the unnecessary cruelty of calling this “Operation Return to Sender.” I’m sure someone thought this was witty. Though they were only half right. It is, however, emblematic of what is coming and the further orders that arrests can be made in schools, churches and hospitals adds an element of cruelty that shouldn’t go unanswered. Maybe Justice Alito who reached back into the 13th century to find justification for Dodd, might resuscitate the concept of sanctuary. I find it hard to believe that the police will violate these spaces but the laws embolden them to do so. At a minimum, I would hope that the Churches will create a United front. This isn’t a matter of Catholic, Protestant, Jew or Islam, agnostic or atheist. This is something that affects citizens and has since 1868 and nothing that Trump does should be allowed to affect that, or we will see cruelty that is truly un American though some would argue that. the racism and xenophobia that underlies these edicts is all too American - the dark underside of this country that we thought had been left behind.
Where are the consequences for the agricultural conglomerates who hire underpaid undocumented workers in order to boost their bottom line? Oh yeah, the voted for and gave money to CF4547.
As you note , there won’t be any consequences, there never are. The employers don’t use the E-Verify system. They do use child labor which is a violation of the law. In so many ways , we have returned to the world of Lochner, when the Supreme Court ruled against unions as violating the right of workers to contract their services as if the workers really could stand up against the trusts of that day and demand fair wages and working conditions. We are in for a reprise of that as undocumented farm workers will not challenge their wages and/or mistreatment for fear of being rounded up and deported.
The real goal of these round-ups is NOT to actually deport them. It is to create slave "work" camps and these workers will be rented back to the industries that need them. This will ensure that ONLY white overlords profit off their labor. Then, because these undocumented workers are undocumented, they will not be subject to "due process" and will be kept in the prison work camps for life, without the possibility of parole. Mississippi House Bill 1484 is their test of this strategy and shows the true purpose of these raids and the point of the for-profit prison camps. These will be modern-day Nazi camps. And NO ONE is reporting on it. A google search only shows the 5 year felony, but if you read the bill, it's lifetime for the undocumented.
And they're shocked, shocked that the citrus farmers have no employees to pick their ruined fruit to make orange juice. Did they think those workers were going to just show up stand around waiting for ICE to show up? 😆 🤣
Congressional Dems need to build a Spanish-language website to make a point to voters. I was surprised at the lack of Spanish content on CHC-member websites.
I am not sure what is more cruel about FF34's stance: taking birthright citizenship away from those born here in the US or rounding up the family members (mothers, fathers, siblings) of those born here and deporting them, thereby separating children from their families.
He did something similar to this in his first term and the last I read was that over 2,000 children have still not been reunited with their families.
What is happening/will happen to all those children?
Also, I wonder how many of these Latinos voted for Trump for cultural reasons.
I do hope they will all make a different choice next time. They should understand, as should his MAGA fan base,he could not care less for any of them. They are fodder to him.
I wish the Latino community had bee. More active in the election beforehand. Look where the vote by that community for the moron got us: an anti-immigrant racist running things who is clearly going to do everything he can to run down Latinos and probably other races. In addition to this assault on the 14th amendment the WH announced late today that the Spanish language newsletter and bulletins are summarily discontinued. This is going to be a hard four years. All we can do in the short term is make sure the Democrats regain the House and Senate in two years.
While I agree that Trump's order was blatantly unconstitutional, birthright citizenship is, in some cases, ridiculous.
An example is a woman who crosses the border pregnant, claims asylum, but drops an "anchor baby" while her asylum claim is being reviewed.
If her asylum claim is fraudulent, or if she crossed illegally, her child is still a USA citizen, and we suddenly have a family separation crisis engineered by the mother.
Birthright citizenship, as it stands, sometimes produces ridiculous results, and encourages dangerous and illegal behavior. Trump is actually not wrong to call it "ridiculous".
If you acknowledge these problems, you are in a position to advocate for smart immigration policies, such as keeping the Dreamers, and keeping people who are established and law-abiding.
If you take the hard line that birthright citizenship must be preserved exactly as it is, no one in the center or right is going to take you seriously - you will be dismissed out of hand, as simply "not getting it".
A reasoned comment. But, it will take a constitutional amendment and we see how hard that is to achieve, witness the ERA. And I wonder how many of these births they really are that we should be so concerned. I think it would be more important to pass a good immigration bill which we almost did until Trump killed it.
Yup. By way of killing that bipartisan bill, Trump should have, from then on, owned the immigration problem.
To an astute observer, he did. But not to many of his supporters.
But note that even if the number of births is small, it’s still a problem (desperate mothers going for a border crossing is a bad thing, even in small numbers).
But really, it’s less about the magnitude of the problem, and more about acknowledging the other side’s valid points. If you don’t, the other side will not engage.
Just because a parent was present here temporarily is not a reason to create a seperate class of babies, which would then lead to the necessity of requiring all mothes and fathers of babies born here proving their citizenship or legal status before they can walk out of the hospital with the babies birth certificate, and also prove they are the parents of the baby--for every single birth in the US.
Desperate mothers have always and will continue to come to the border, even if the 14th Amendment is abolished. Pretending you are somehow helping that situation by denying all babies their citizenship based on their parents status is dishonest and discrimination, and just wrong.
Denying the citizenship of a baby that is *specifically* born under a fraudulent asylum claim, or due to an illegal border crossing, does not in any way require the absurd measures you propose.
Hospitals would not operate any differently.
It would simply be the case that if you birthed a child under those circumstances, they are not citizens unless your asylum claim is valid, or unless you were grandfathered in (longstanding residence, no criminal record, not dependent on welfare, etc).
Between yours and other comments accusing me of "discrimination" - you realize I could be talking about Scottish babies, say? I am seriously wondering whether foreign troll bots are infecting even a new site like The Contrarian?
I mean, you break the law specifically to land a baby in the USA, and it's a problem to amend the law so that that does not work? What? Why?
I wonder, first of all, how this is contentious, given that the status quo literally encourages mothers to risk their lives and their children's lives to try to give birth on American soil.
But then I am astonished to hear that in advocating for a change in the law to keep mothers safe, I am "dishonest, "discriminat[ing] and just wrong".
Lol. Wait a minute, you think all asylum cases that are rejected are fraudulent? You obviously know nothing to about this situation.
Uh huh, no one in the US gets a birth certificate for any baby until they prove legal status of one parent, and of course they would also have to prove they are that babies parent.
White people routinely come to the US on a tourist VISA specifically to have their baby in the US, your so-called anchor baby. That is happening today and has been happening for decades.
Asylum seekers are not coming here to have a baby on US soil. To get entry as an asylum seeker, and before they even get a judge to decide if they qualify for the limited situations that the US allows for asylum, they have to prove, with evidence, that they have a legitamite case for asylum.
Risk their lives to give birth on US soil? Most of these people are fleeing for their lives looking for safety already, baby or not, and you think it's all just to have a baby that is a US citizen? Mothers 7 ,8 or 9 months pregnant do not walk thousands of treacherous miles just to get citizenship for a baby which they just risked being born alive by making that trip! Got anymore stereotypes you want to share while you ignore reality? BTW, crossing the border without permission is a misdemeanor offense, they are as much a criminal as you are when you jaywalk or exceed the speed limit while driving down the street. So claiming they are breaking the law to get here to have a baby is ignoring reality.
It is not just a law that you want changed, it is the 14th amendment to the US Constitition which can not be changed except by another amendment which must be passed by congress or a constitional convention, and then ratified by 3/4ts of the states.
This is rather sad. There were long streaks of typos in the original post, subsequently corrected - that reveals this person is likely real; not an AI bot or a foreign troll. I had actually held out hope that this wasn't a real person..
This person vigorously attacks a bunch of statements I have never made nor ever would make.
I did not say that all people denied asylum submitted a fraudulent application. That's stupid.
I did not say that every pregnant mother seeking asylum did so to land an "anchor baby". That's stupid.
I did not say that white people going for an "anchor baby" should be treated any different. That's stupid.
I did not say that crossing the border inadvertently should be considered a serious criminal offense. That's stupid.
The problem is simple: you far lefties vilify anyone who disagrees in the slightest. You ignore the actual points that were put forward, and viciously attack statements that were never made.
You will do this even to a liberal centrist - a valuable ally.
And then you marvel about righties who think there's a pedophile ring in the basement of a pizza place with no basement - my how stupid!
You are on the exact same path.
It is neither the current president nor any particular party that is ruining America. It is your lack of nuance and tribalism that is ruining America.
Oh actually, I meant a Norwegian baby, are you OK now?
What a perfect example of the issue. I talk about a legit problem that is endangering mothers and children, and it’s “abhorrent” and I am accused of racism - for worrying about a law that causes desperate people to take unacceptable risks.
This is precisely it, folks. You can acknowledge the other side’s valid points, or you can live in a bubble, telling yourselves that your beliefs are unassailable, condemning any dissent as “abhorrent”, while the other side does the same.
bearing children, is a far right scare tactic by the almighty “right” to freak out about “colored” children. No. It is not a bubble mister. It is compassion for those seeking a better life. Like perhaps your family?
Please , what am I not understanding other than you turning a vile argument
from Trump, who is a White fascist, to an acceptable argument, is your
refusal to see the inhumane features, and that is the point,correct?
I am a registered Independent, centrist in my views, never did and never would vote for Trump.
But if I say that something that Trump said was partially right? Instantly vilified.
I’m racist. I’m equated with the far right.
If you wonder why America is divided, here it is. Trump bears some blame, but so does this person - who is so extreme that I suspect this is a foreign country’s troll account.
And if it’s not, well - perhaps a good look in the mirror? What do you think you’re achieving?
If you notice, the Federal judge said what djt said about the 14th amendment, and what he wants to do under its authority was blatantly unconstitutional.
What the administration is arguing is that how the 14th Amendment has been interpreted and upheld by multiple Supreme Court decisions over a century and a half were all wrong. The judge said he could not believe a member of the bar would bring such a case before a court.
An amendment to the US Constitution can not be changed by a wave of a sharpie. If the administration wants to change the 14th Amendment, they must get congress to pass a new Amendment, then get that ratified by 3/4 of the states, civics 101.
Yes, I read Jay Kuo as well, and laughed out loud at what Coughenour said to Trump's counsel. A well deserved tongue-lashing.
As to why you would try to explain "civics 101" to *me*, when I opened this thread stating that the order was "blatantly unconstitutional"... well I would say that's a mystery, but it fits will all your other comments: you are arguing against points that *you wish* other people were making, instead of what they actually say.
Most so-called "anchor babies" are from legal tourists who come here precisely for that reason and most but not all of those are white, not ypur hypotheticalasylum seekers who were denied asylum.
And I said MOST of your so-called "anchor babies" are born to mothers here legally on a tourist VISA. They are not from mothers coming to the southern border asking for asylum nor crossing without authorization!
Do none of these children you cite here being "dropped" by their mothers have fathers? How where they conceived? Don't fathers ever get blamed for not taking responsibility?
A child born to a diplomat is not a USA citizen. Have they been "punished"?
It is not "punishment" for a child to retain the citizenship of their parents, until that parent legally immigrates legally.
"Anchor babies" are a loophole that gets around our immigration law. A well-designed amendment could close that loophole - regardless of country of origin, and regardless of whether the baby got here via an asylum claim or tourist visa - without affecting established undocumented immigrants or Dreamers.
I had to read several articles to decide whether I would still be a citizen under this new ruling or my daughter. Both of us have only one parent born in the US. In some places it sounded like one needed to have both parents born in the US. Of course I understand that part of the Trump administrations intention is to make things unclear. At some point these laws have got to effect several of Trump's children as well as Trump. If you needed to have both parents be born in the US, then he would not legitimately be American, and thus not legitimately president.
I've heard this a lot lately, and really, this is the thing that is most stupid about that clearly unconstitutional order.
Brain drain.
The USA has benefited from brain drain *from other countries* because of our enormous economy and its comparatively light regulations. Globally, people with an entrepreneurial spirit want to be here.
Trump has just reversed that.
We will now experience reverse brain drain as many of the best and brightest seek some other country that doesn't have such capricious leadership, where they are uncertain if they can safely build a life.
I am sorry about your individual case. But you also represent a trend that history books will explain as eminently predictable and entirely avoidable.
Three cheers for Judge Coughenour. A federal judge is in a position to be less bullied and intimidated by Donald Trump. May many more of these orders/edicts finish up in the courts and be weighed against the laws of the land and the constitution.
So pleased to see that this was a Republican judge, appointed by Reagan, who is upholding the law and constitution.
Linda, that information is like a shaft of light in the darkness.
Many more? All! It's become awfully clear that what needs overhauling isn't the Constitution, it's the process of government.
"Government" would do just fine without the influences of the current iteration of the Republican party, the invasive project 2025, and the special interests that warp the mission away from serving the many people to serving few entitled wealthy donors. What needs overhauling (or preferably replacement) is the Republican Party.
Project 2025 was known about a LONG time ago, but nobody seemed to wake up. Maybe because it was so neatly and professionally presented? Just looked boring and too long to read?
Project 2025 didn't get nearly the scrutiny and publicity that it should have, likely as you say, due to its length and presentation.
Yes, hidden in plain sight. A smart move, then. Strengthened by Trump's occasional declarations that he'd never heard of it.
Trump has no idea what the constitution says. He just think that if he wants it then he gets it.
It isn't even Trump. He's just signing EOs written by the lackeys at the Heritage Foundation trying to implement the fantasy world they live in. He has no idea what he's signing, to him it's all theater.
To him it's just another episode in the reality TV show called "Trump, the 2nd Coming".
Don, agree! He is well into dementia and who knows who is behind the curtain.
I am certain someone nefarious is pulling the strings.
Ugh,is the four years up yet? I am totally exhausted …..
It’s not his brain that is damaged. It is his soul. He lacks a conscience, and there’s nothing in him to counteract his gargantuan ego.
Well, he is utterly contemptible, but he does have a dementia visible to many physicians. All he has to do is be propped up as frontman and the giddy writers of Project 2025 get their fever dreams.
And, that is their goal: exhaust people with his avalanches of attacks on the Constitution and civil society. It is just the end of the first week of his regime. I imagine how we'll feel after a year, let alone 4.
I agree that Drumpf is just signing documents drafted by far more intelligent people, if not just as cruel & insensitive as he is. But I firmly believe that the author of this particular piece of crap is Stephen "Herr Heinrich" Miller, who seems to have a real hatred of immigrants. I'm sure that, if he could, he would have my birthright maternal grandparents (both long deceased) dug up and returned to Europe. Drumpf has surrounded himself with even more despicable people than during his first term.
I'd like to know precisely when Stephen Miller's ancestors arrived in the United States. His mommy's side has only been here since 1906. I bet he has some really nasty ancestral skeletons that would be exceedingly entertaining to expose to the light of day, splash all over social media and independent press, maybe some billboards along highways, and humiliate that fugly little five-head. Which reminds me. He's only what, 39? He looks like the product of multi-generational, intentional, CLOSE inbreeding.
Phteven Miller reminds me of the newest 3D reproductions of Tutankhamun, minus the tragedy or the excuse of medical ignorance.
That is very well stated, Elle!!
See, and that was me being polite. Maybe I should take off the filters. For therapeutic purposes, y'know.
And if he would have to do that for you, Stan, he'd have to do it for a helluva lot more! I, too, am a granddaughter of immigrants and, no matter how deeply I have searched, have never found any indication that my maternal grandfather ever became an American citizen. How big is that boat? God help us all!!
he would have to do it to all Americans...not one american actually "belongs" here
I have always contended that he has never read the Constitution he has sworn to protect and defend!
And this is why candidates need to take a test on the Constitution.
Nothing surer. We've seen unfit presidents before, but never to this degree of mania. "President" means what? One who presides. Today's kings, and there are still a few, don't rule, they embody love of country, and rubber-stamp the laws enacted by the government.
I truly believe he's mostly illiterate. I doubt he's actually ever read a single book.
Project 2025 is being implemented and in the quiet do no one knows. Stealth to undermine our freedoms
Classic behavior of a malignant narcissist
“It’s a sad day when an elected president labels the 14th Amendment, which is over 150 years old, as ridiculous.”
It’s also a sad day when a ridiculous President is elected.
wealth inequality was allowed to go on for too long, this is the result
I'm glad the judge issued a TRO on this and there are other lawsuits about this EO. There was a lot of reporting on "birth tourism" by Russian women when Trump was in the WH the first time, and stories about his properties being used for this purpose. Maybe someone should ask Trump about this.
I was just thinking the same thing. But bear in mind, those “tourists “ are white.
And also that Russia had a known implication in that election.
I didn't know about his properties being used for birth tourism. He would have made money off that, of course. Nothing is too low for him.
Don't you just love that in his scripted inaugural address that trump gave a shout out to black & Hispanic voters that turned out for him & helped him win. Didn't he say something about helping those communities? Well, gee, I guess he didn't mean it. Who would 'ever' think that he would lie?! Oh, it could never happen, right?
So congratulations to all the voters out there that got duped AGAIN! How's that old saying go? Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me! Well, seems to me we could say "fool me every day & I'll believe it". Then we could add another old standard. There's a sucker born every minute. I think we need to upgrade that to there are millions of suckers born every minute when it comes to the siren song sung by trump.
But there may be one bright spot that may help us. Hubris! Yes, hubris! Thanks to his enormous, outsized ego he seems to think that those cheering, fawning crowds at his rallies populate the entire country. I guess he hasn't noticed that he received less than 50% of the vote & those that voted against him have something to say!
Stonewall, I get where you're going and it took a duper village to elect the ass, however, it was painfully obvious that the Latin community would suffer whereas the white community would be spared of at least part of the disastrous consequences of the vote. It's hard to imagine a minority being duped because it was obvious how racist the administration would be. I think the media capture is the story. They are in an echo chamber of disinformation. By that I mean virtually all Trump voters.
stonewall, sounding an awful lot like a troll bot here....
Thank you
He cares for no one but himself. He is a cruel person. I keep hoping he chokes on his ego and no one bothers with the Heimlich
It would have been good for LULAC to be as active BEFORE the election...
Do you think they were not? Before the election, we did not have this platform to showcase what efforts were being made; certainly the national legacy media did not note it.
I believe you. The legacy and social media amplified Right wing propaganda, and suppressed democratic voices. I too am glad that new sources of news are springing up.
Credible sources, that don't fear fact-checking.
How true.
As you are already aware, ICE has begun raids here in California even before Trump was inaugurated. The raids around Bakersfield focused on agricultural workers picking fruit. The border patrol contended they were undocumented; the union contends otherwise and notes that some were in fact here legally but what struck me was the unnecessary cruelty of calling this “Operation Return to Sender.” I’m sure someone thought this was witty. Though they were only half right. It is, however, emblematic of what is coming and the further orders that arrests can be made in schools, churches and hospitals adds an element of cruelty that shouldn’t go unanswered. Maybe Justice Alito who reached back into the 13th century to find justification for Dodd, might resuscitate the concept of sanctuary. I find it hard to believe that the police will violate these spaces but the laws embolden them to do so. At a minimum, I would hope that the Churches will create a United front. This isn’t a matter of Catholic, Protestant, Jew or Islam, agnostic or atheist. This is something that affects citizens and has since 1868 and nothing that Trump does should be allowed to affect that, or we will see cruelty that is truly un American though some would argue that. the racism and xenophobia that underlies these edicts is all too American - the dark underside of this country that we thought had been left behind.
The "Churches" have already created their united front, without the Evangelical vote he would not be president. The cruelty is a feature not a bug.
the churches needed his power to increase their power to inflict their religious views on everyone
Where are the consequences for the agricultural conglomerates who hire underpaid undocumented workers in order to boost their bottom line? Oh yeah, the voted for and gave money to CF4547.
As you note , there won’t be any consequences, there never are. The employers don’t use the E-Verify system. They do use child labor which is a violation of the law. In so many ways , we have returned to the world of Lochner, when the Supreme Court ruled against unions as violating the right of workers to contract their services as if the workers really could stand up against the trusts of that day and demand fair wages and working conditions. We are in for a reprise of that as undocumented farm workers will not challenge their wages and/or mistreatment for fear of being rounded up and deported.
Yeah…nothing ever happens to them. EVER!
The real goal of these round-ups is NOT to actually deport them. It is to create slave "work" camps and these workers will be rented back to the industries that need them. This will ensure that ONLY white overlords profit off their labor. Then, because these undocumented workers are undocumented, they will not be subject to "due process" and will be kept in the prison work camps for life, without the possibility of parole. Mississippi House Bill 1484 is their test of this strategy and shows the true purpose of these raids and the point of the for-profit prison camps. These will be modern-day Nazi camps. And NO ONE is reporting on it. A google search only shows the 5 year felony, but if you read the bill, it's lifetime for the undocumented.
And they're shocked, shocked that the citrus farmers have no employees to pick their ruined fruit to make orange juice. Did they think those workers were going to just show up stand around waiting for ICE to show up? 😆 🤣
Congressional Dems need to build a Spanish-language website to make a point to voters. I was surprised at the lack of Spanish content on CHC-member websites.
No one wanted to believe the cabal was really going to do what they said they were going to do. But here we are.
I believed it and was brushed off for doing so.
I am not sure what is more cruel about FF34's stance: taking birthright citizenship away from those born here in the US or rounding up the family members (mothers, fathers, siblings) of those born here and deporting them, thereby separating children from their families.
He did something similar to this in his first term and the last I read was that over 2,000 children have still not been reunited with their families.
What is happening/will happen to all those children?
It’s shameful and the idea emboldened Stephen Miller who is at it again. I hate that guy!
The 14th Amendment, Section 3, should have prevented this felon from holding office, too.
Trump is a monster. Expect nothing less.
Also, I wonder how many of these Latinos voted for Trump for cultural reasons.
I do hope they will all make a different choice next time. They should understand, as should his MAGA fan base,he could not care less for any of them. They are fodder to him.
stonewall jackson...trump feels the same about black folks. back off the whitey stuff. just tryin to help you.......
this is actually good !
hates them....wanted the death penalty for the central park five
and please tell the folks your name is Stonewall Jackson on the Joyce Vance site.........
it was all about votes
Well, he does appear to like the rich & powerful ones; why, I wonder?
Well Jackson ,what is it to you?
I don't blame black/brown for Harris's loss......I blame every "american" who voted for trump
They should not have hidden Biden's decline, not true about Kamala. She would have been good for America and especially her women.
I wish the Latino community had bee. More active in the election beforehand. Look where the vote by that community for the moron got us: an anti-immigrant racist running things who is clearly going to do everything he can to run down Latinos and probably other races. In addition to this assault on the 14th amendment the WH announced late today that the Spanish language newsletter and bulletins are summarily discontinued. This is going to be a hard four years. All we can do in the short term is make sure the Democrats regain the House and Senate in two years.
Damn Stonewall, you gave yourself away-had me fooled for awhile. Anarchy is not the answer.
That's what Bannon wants.
While I agree that Trump's order was blatantly unconstitutional, birthright citizenship is, in some cases, ridiculous.
An example is a woman who crosses the border pregnant, claims asylum, but drops an "anchor baby" while her asylum claim is being reviewed.
If her asylum claim is fraudulent, or if she crossed illegally, her child is still a USA citizen, and we suddenly have a family separation crisis engineered by the mother.
Birthright citizenship, as it stands, sometimes produces ridiculous results, and encourages dangerous and illegal behavior. Trump is actually not wrong to call it "ridiculous".
If you acknowledge these problems, you are in a position to advocate for smart immigration policies, such as keeping the Dreamers, and keeping people who are established and law-abiding.
If you take the hard line that birthright citizenship must be preserved exactly as it is, no one in the center or right is going to take you seriously - you will be dismissed out of hand, as simply "not getting it".
A reasoned comment. But, it will take a constitutional amendment and we see how hard that is to achieve, witness the ERA. And I wonder how many of these births they really are that we should be so concerned. I think it would be more important to pass a good immigration bill which we almost did until Trump killed it.
Yup. By way of killing that bipartisan bill, Trump should have, from then on, owned the immigration problem.
To an astute observer, he did. But not to many of his supporters.
But note that even if the number of births is small, it’s still a problem (desperate mothers going for a border crossing is a bad thing, even in small numbers).
But really, it’s less about the magnitude of the problem, and more about acknowledging the other side’s valid points. If you don’t, the other side will not engage.
The baby born here is not an immigrant.
Just because a parent was present here temporarily is not a reason to create a seperate class of babies, which would then lead to the necessity of requiring all mothes and fathers of babies born here proving their citizenship or legal status before they can walk out of the hospital with the babies birth certificate, and also prove they are the parents of the baby--for every single birth in the US.
Desperate mothers have always and will continue to come to the border, even if the 14th Amendment is abolished. Pretending you are somehow helping that situation by denying all babies their citizenship based on their parents status is dishonest and discrimination, and just wrong.
This is a preposterous "straw man" argument.
Denying the citizenship of a baby that is *specifically* born under a fraudulent asylum claim, or due to an illegal border crossing, does not in any way require the absurd measures you propose.
Hospitals would not operate any differently.
It would simply be the case that if you birthed a child under those circumstances, they are not citizens unless your asylum claim is valid, or unless you were grandfathered in (longstanding residence, no criminal record, not dependent on welfare, etc).
Between yours and other comments accusing me of "discrimination" - you realize I could be talking about Scottish babies, say? I am seriously wondering whether foreign troll bots are infecting even a new site like The Contrarian?
I mean, you break the law specifically to land a baby in the USA, and it's a problem to amend the law so that that does not work? What? Why?
I wonder, first of all, how this is contentious, given that the status quo literally encourages mothers to risk their lives and their children's lives to try to give birth on American soil.
But then I am astonished to hear that in advocating for a change in the law to keep mothers safe, I am "dishonest, "discriminat[ing] and just wrong".
Wow!
Lol. Wait a minute, you think all asylum cases that are rejected are fraudulent? You obviously know nothing to about this situation.
Uh huh, no one in the US gets a birth certificate for any baby until they prove legal status of one parent, and of course they would also have to prove they are that babies parent.
White people routinely come to the US on a tourist VISA specifically to have their baby in the US, your so-called anchor baby. That is happening today and has been happening for decades.
Asylum seekers are not coming here to have a baby on US soil. To get entry as an asylum seeker, and before they even get a judge to decide if they qualify for the limited situations that the US allows for asylum, they have to prove, with evidence, that they have a legitamite case for asylum.
Risk their lives to give birth on US soil? Most of these people are fleeing for their lives looking for safety already, baby or not, and you think it's all just to have a baby that is a US citizen? Mothers 7 ,8 or 9 months pregnant do not walk thousands of treacherous miles just to get citizenship for a baby which they just risked being born alive by making that trip! Got anymore stereotypes you want to share while you ignore reality? BTW, crossing the border without permission is a misdemeanor offense, they are as much a criminal as you are when you jaywalk or exceed the speed limit while driving down the street. So claiming they are breaking the law to get here to have a baby is ignoring reality.
It is not just a law that you want changed, it is the 14th amendment to the US Constitition which can not be changed except by another amendment which must be passed by congress or a constitional convention, and then ratified by 3/4ts of the states.
This is rather sad. There were long streaks of typos in the original post, subsequently corrected - that reveals this person is likely real; not an AI bot or a foreign troll. I had actually held out hope that this wasn't a real person..
This person vigorously attacks a bunch of statements I have never made nor ever would make.
I did not say that all people denied asylum submitted a fraudulent application. That's stupid.
I did not say that every pregnant mother seeking asylum did so to land an "anchor baby". That's stupid.
I did not say that white people going for an "anchor baby" should be treated any different. That's stupid.
I did not say that crossing the border inadvertently should be considered a serious criminal offense. That's stupid.
The problem is simple: you far lefties vilify anyone who disagrees in the slightest. You ignore the actual points that were put forward, and viciously attack statements that were never made.
You will do this even to a liberal centrist - a valuable ally.
And then you marvel about righties who think there's a pedophile ring in the basement of a pizza place with no basement - my how stupid!
You are on the exact same path.
It is neither the current president nor any particular party that is ruining America. It is your lack of nuance and tribalism that is ruining America.
Look in the damn mirror.
I will only not “dismiss”it when babies from whites are accused of being an “anchor baby”.
Your comment is abhorrent ,but I am sure you are fine with it.
Oh actually, I meant a Norwegian baby, are you OK now?
What a perfect example of the issue. I talk about a legit problem that is endangering mothers and children, and it’s “abhorrent” and I am accused of racism - for worrying about a law that causes desperate people to take unacceptable risks.
This is precisely it, folks. You can acknowledge the other side’s valid points, or you can live in a bubble, telling yourselves that your beliefs are unassailable, condemning any dissent as “abhorrent”, while the other side does the same.
The entire “invasion” of people
bearing children, is a far right scare tactic by the almighty “right” to freak out about “colored” children. No. It is not a bubble mister. It is compassion for those seeking a better life. Like perhaps your family?
Please , what am I not understanding other than you turning a vile argument
from Trump, who is a White fascist, to an acceptable argument, is your
refusal to see the inhumane features, and that is the point,correct?
“birthright citizenship is ridiculous”.
Wow, I would not want to stand on that idea.
Good luck.
Again, such a perfect example.
I am a registered Independent, centrist in my views, never did and never would vote for Trump.
But if I say that something that Trump said was partially right? Instantly vilified.
I’m racist. I’m equated with the far right.
If you wonder why America is divided, here it is. Trump bears some blame, but so does this person - who is so extreme that I suspect this is a foreign country’s troll account.
And if it’s not, well - perhaps a good look in the mirror? What do you think you’re achieving?
And yet you sent me a disgusting piece from the NYPost?
And here we thought you had some brain power.
Please just stop. Thank you.
If you notice, the Federal judge said what djt said about the 14th amendment, and what he wants to do under its authority was blatantly unconstitutional.
What the administration is arguing is that how the 14th Amendment has been interpreted and upheld by multiple Supreme Court decisions over a century and a half were all wrong. The judge said he could not believe a member of the bar would bring such a case before a court.
An amendment to the US Constitution can not be changed by a wave of a sharpie. If the administration wants to change the 14th Amendment, they must get congress to pass a new Amendment, then get that ratified by 3/4 of the states, civics 101.
Yes, I read Jay Kuo as well, and laughed out loud at what Coughenour said to Trump's counsel. A well deserved tongue-lashing.
As to why you would try to explain "civics 101" to *me*, when I opened this thread stating that the order was "blatantly unconstitutional"... well I would say that's a mystery, but it fits will all your other comments: you are arguing against points that *you wish* other people were making, instead of what they actually say.
Stuck in a bubble.
Most so-called "anchor babies" are from legal tourists who come here precisely for that reason and most but not all of those are white, not ypur hypotheticalasylum seekers who were denied asylum.
I said absolutely nothing about white vs brown, but wow, there's a lot of projection here.
And I said MOST of your so-called "anchor babies" are born to mothers here legally on a tourist VISA. They are not from mothers coming to the southern border asking for asylum nor crossing without authorization!
Doubling down, seriously?
Again I've said nothing about race, culture, religion or any other possibly discriminatory criterion for immigration. That is pure projection.
You are *so desperate* to make this about race or anything other than rational immigration policy that you are just making stuff up to attack.
You're attacking things I've never said, and never would say, as a futile and self-defeating act of pure tribalism.
As CK, I unreservedly endorse this rap.
Couldn't care less whether it was AI or not.
Do none of these children you cite here being "dropped" by their mothers have fathers? How where they conceived? Don't fathers ever get blamed for not taking responsibility?
And on we go, keep demonizing a whole gender…
As a father myself, I take full responsibility for my (soulful, brilliant, beautiful) daughter.
But note that I didn’t say anything about whether the mother crossed with the father or not.
Your bigotry & misogyny is showing. Does your daughter know this about you?
The father could just as easily be a US citizen
Right. Punish the child for the “sins” of the parent.
A child born to a diplomat is not a USA citizen. Have they been "punished"?
It is not "punishment" for a child to retain the citizenship of their parents, until that parent legally immigrates legally.
"Anchor babies" are a loophole that gets around our immigration law. A well-designed amendment could close that loophole - regardless of country of origin, and regardless of whether the baby got here via an asylum claim or tourist visa - without affecting established undocumented immigrants or Dreamers.
I had to read several articles to decide whether I would still be a citizen under this new ruling or my daughter. Both of us have only one parent born in the US. In some places it sounded like one needed to have both parents born in the US. Of course I understand that part of the Trump administrations intention is to make things unclear. At some point these laws have got to effect several of Trump's children as well as Trump. If you needed to have both parents be born in the US, then he would not legitimately be American, and thus not legitimately president.
I've heard this a lot lately, and really, this is the thing that is most stupid about that clearly unconstitutional order.
Brain drain.
The USA has benefited from brain drain *from other countries* because of our enormous economy and its comparatively light regulations. Globally, people with an entrepreneurial spirit want to be here.
Trump has just reversed that.
We will now experience reverse brain drain as many of the best and brightest seek some other country that doesn't have such capricious leadership, where they are uncertain if they can safely build a life.
I am sorry about your individual case. But you also represent a trend that history books will explain as eminently predictable and entirely avoidable.