Where Gordon lost me is at his statement that “ If Donald Trump decides this war is over, the war is over.” Setting aside the likelihood that Netanyahu will do his best to keep the war going, what about Iran? Iran is on a roll right now in many ways, having prevented public uprisings in Iran, cemented Khameini Jr. as the new and even worse leader of the country, and having closed the Strait of Hormuz. Even if Trump says the war “is over”, what if Iran says it isn’t—that it’s going to keep fighting and making huge trouble for the world until Trump makes some brutally humiliating concessions? We might say, well, there will be a negotiated cease-fire like the last time and everything will be cool again, but from Iran’s perspective, they WERE negotiating with Trump this time and the next thing they knew they were being mercilessly bombed and their Ayatollah was dead. What makes Gordon think Iran will go down that road again? In short, Gordon’s idea that Trump has the option of just declaring victory and going home is so yesterday that it makes me wonder whether Gordon is even paying attention to today.
I stopped at that too, with incredulity, but thought he had previously recognized Iran's agency - so read that statement as specific to the question of whether Israel will stop. Formal war, as opposed to Iran's reactions and likely future reciprocal terrorism. (We must acknowledge that the US and Israel's actions very much meet the terrorism definition.)
I'd like to know more about his take on Israelis' opinion on Gaza, rather than about judges and internal objections. I can understand them having 90% approval of Iran war, given their history with Iran.
But Gaza... every Israeli protest I read about was mostly about Israeli hostages, they don't seem to give a damn that grandchildren of the Holocaust are committing genocide.
But I know that the official news sources are acting like Americans aren't resisting Trump too, so don't know what credence to give the apparent Israeli shrug at genocide, from the outside.
Unless the society, military, and government are interested in regime change, any external forces will not be enough to implement it. The external force, in this case Trump and the U.S. military under Hegseth will do what they do best - create disruption, destruction, and chaos. At some point he will give up and we will leave, leaving Iran with a leader who is no better than the last, and a regime that is no different from before. Iranians will harbor more anger toward the United States, thanks to Trump, who has made us more vulnerable to attack. Getting inveigled into supporting a Netanyahu mission was stupid as hell.
Trump's next hope is that Iran does a reciprocal terrorist attack in the US, so that he can jigger the disastrous midterms. It's weird to have a president hoping desperately for Americans to die.
It wouldn't surprise me, though this is some of the evil thinking that would be more likely to come from Stephen Miller, who infects Trump's already diseased mind.
Iran has been hurt and things may get worse. The regime is going to be vengeful, even if deposed, which they have not been. No way it is not wanting to take revenge. Hormuz is the down payment. Iranian opposition may hide in fear. Who knows what remains of weapons or supplies that will be coming to them from allies. Russia is not afraid of Trump, and supposedly helping Iran. What about terrorism?
The US looks like it doesn't know what it is doing under Trump. Not smart. No vision. Risky.
We have lost credibility if not reputation (such as it was) just even because this was a war of choice without the American people/congressional vote.
We have to stop Trump-tie his hands, neuter him, or impeach him.
Netanyahu, another mad man with hubris, has convinced Israeli's over many years that Iran was THE problem. THE security threat as perceived by Netanyahu was made worse over the years as he was deflecting from the Palestinian issue, refusing to negotiate, ending the process- a situation which he made worse... ongoing. GAZA!
And now the Israelis seem to be convinced that THIS right wing expansionist Israeli leader and his government needs to be supported. They want to be protected by THIS strongman.
People here and there need to rise up against this insanity while getting ready to feel the pain of trying to set this right.
In the meantime- hearts to Ukraine, still needing to win against Putin.
Now that the US has normalized abducting or remotely executing leaders of their countries, security has to be much more expensive. Rather than worrying about planted explosives, snipers or a nearby miscreant, security also needs to include anti-missile and anti-drone defenses. Flying was easier before we needed TSA. This is magnitudes greater. Many countries will not have proper capacities. Big ones can protect their leaders, but smaller countries just have to cross their fingers and keep heads down.
Where Gordon lost me is at his statement that “ If Donald Trump decides this war is over, the war is over.” Setting aside the likelihood that Netanyahu will do his best to keep the war going, what about Iran? Iran is on a roll right now in many ways, having prevented public uprisings in Iran, cemented Khameini Jr. as the new and even worse leader of the country, and having closed the Strait of Hormuz. Even if Trump says the war “is over”, what if Iran says it isn’t—that it’s going to keep fighting and making huge trouble for the world until Trump makes some brutally humiliating concessions? We might say, well, there will be a negotiated cease-fire like the last time and everything will be cool again, but from Iran’s perspective, they WERE negotiating with Trump this time and the next thing they knew they were being mercilessly bombed and their Ayatollah was dead. What makes Gordon think Iran will go down that road again? In short, Gordon’s idea that Trump has the option of just declaring victory and going home is so yesterday that it makes me wonder whether Gordon is even paying attention to today.
I stopped at that too, with incredulity, but thought he had previously recognized Iran's agency - so read that statement as specific to the question of whether Israel will stop. Formal war, as opposed to Iran's reactions and likely future reciprocal terrorism. (We must acknowledge that the US and Israel's actions very much meet the terrorism definition.)
Agree- but this is the value of getting more than one opinion on this.
I'd like to know more about his take on Israelis' opinion on Gaza, rather than about judges and internal objections. I can understand them having 90% approval of Iran war, given their history with Iran.
But Gaza... every Israeli protest I read about was mostly about Israeli hostages, they don't seem to give a damn that grandchildren of the Holocaust are committing genocide.
But I know that the official news sources are acting like Americans aren't resisting Trump too, so don't know what credence to give the apparent Israeli shrug at genocide, from the outside.
I'm relieved to hear that Israel would likely stop warring if Trump declared faux victory. (Not that Iran ever will) I didn't think that likely.
And I don't think it is likely either. Israel does what it wants. Ongoing in Gaza. Starting up in Lebanon.
Unless the society, military, and government are interested in regime change, any external forces will not be enough to implement it. The external force, in this case Trump and the U.S. military under Hegseth will do what they do best - create disruption, destruction, and chaos. At some point he will give up and we will leave, leaving Iran with a leader who is no better than the last, and a regime that is no different from before. Iranians will harbor more anger toward the United States, thanks to Trump, who has made us more vulnerable to attack. Getting inveigled into supporting a Netanyahu mission was stupid as hell.
Trump's next hope is that Iran does a reciprocal terrorist attack in the US, so that he can jigger the disastrous midterms. It's weird to have a president hoping desperately for Americans to die.
It wouldn't surprise me, though this is some of the evil thinking that would be more likely to come from Stephen Miller, who infects Trump's already diseased mind.
Iran has been hurt and things may get worse. The regime is going to be vengeful, even if deposed, which they have not been. No way it is not wanting to take revenge. Hormuz is the down payment. Iranian opposition may hide in fear. Who knows what remains of weapons or supplies that will be coming to them from allies. Russia is not afraid of Trump, and supposedly helping Iran. What about terrorism?
The US looks like it doesn't know what it is doing under Trump. Not smart. No vision. Risky.
We have lost credibility if not reputation (such as it was) just even because this was a war of choice without the American people/congressional vote.
We have to stop Trump-tie his hands, neuter him, or impeach him.
Netanyahu, another mad man with hubris, has convinced Israeli's over many years that Iran was THE problem. THE security threat as perceived by Netanyahu was made worse over the years as he was deflecting from the Palestinian issue, refusing to negotiate, ending the process- a situation which he made worse... ongoing. GAZA!
And now the Israelis seem to be convinced that THIS right wing expansionist Israeli leader and his government needs to be supported. They want to be protected by THIS strongman.
People here and there need to rise up against this insanity while getting ready to feel the pain of trying to set this right.
In the meantime- hearts to Ukraine, still needing to win against Putin.
Now that the US has normalized abducting or remotely executing leaders of their countries, security has to be much more expensive. Rather than worrying about planted explosives, snipers or a nearby miscreant, security also needs to include anti-missile and anti-drone defenses. Flying was easier before we needed TSA. This is magnitudes greater. Many countries will not have proper capacities. Big ones can protect their leaders, but smaller countries just have to cross their fingers and keep heads down.
That’s an insightful discussion. Thanks so much!