This is a riveting interview!! Jen asks exactly the questions on your mind about the legality of these strikes, and even the questions you wish you had thought to ask yourself!! And, Margaret Donovan is the perfect person to discuss this with, as a former JAG. Her insights on the pertinent law, and the military are keenly authoritative. An absolutely fascinating interview!!
This breaks down the current situation very well. The first really coherent analysis that I have seen, without the aimless renderings of those who equivocate as to whether this will be addressed. I am heartened to read that there is no statute of limitations on murder. We all do know that this administration will do nothing but try to cover up the whole thing. A real investigation and trial probably won't take place until 2028. I am hoping that there will be some justice administered here, and that Hegseth will be implicated, tried, and held responsible for the reckless and ill-considered operation that he heads.
I do not think there will be any criminal liability as to Hegseth. Trump will issue a blanket pardon for his Cabinet before he leaves office, just like President Biden did, although there is a distinction between the two. President Biden did it to protect many people from vindictive prosecutions, except possibly with respect to his son Hunter, and Trump will do it to protect his sycophants from well deserved prosecutions. However, he cannot protect Hegseth and others from impeachment, which is what needs to be done ASAP. The courts will be powerless in the face of the pardon power to stop this and Trump has already been prospectively pardoned by the Roberts Court, for which I suspect he thanked Roberts at Trump's inauguration. Only Congress can put an end to this before the midterms, when voters will have an opportunity to act, but will enough of them do so? Maybe, if enough retired military, citizen immigrants, and citizens of color break ranks. Maybe not if they see Congress acting like it has some backbone.
We should demand Hegseth be impeached or relentlessly pressured to resign. Breaking News on News Nation: New Strike on Alleged Drug Boat Kills 4. MSNOW: Pete Hegseth In Self-Made Crisis Mode On Multiple Fronts WATCHDOG: Hegseth Risked Potential Harm To U.S. Pilots
What a sobering and distressing conversation with Margaret Donovan. Congress must, without delay, get all the adults in the room to address this situation and investigate, document, and pursue all necessary action to hold Hegseth et al accountable. Impeach.
Excellent interview. Both Margaret Donovan and Jen Rubin know their way around the law. I was so pleased to hear clear legal references. Life-time liability. No statute of limitations.
That's certainly true! It described Margaret Donovan as a former 'drag'. How unusual, I thought. I don't recall her saying that. Then I realized: oh, yeah, JAG.
What a marvelous interview: clear, concise, bare truth unflinchingly laid out. And from an individual so clearly well informed, knowledgeable as an attorney and former JAG with a clear eyed intelligence as well as a strict moral compass.
I am most concerned about the confirmation that our troops are not being protected from illegal orders by their chain of command. As at every other agency, at the very beginning of this administration Hegseth purged the competent officers with enough integrity to stand up to him, and hollowed out the professional core. I'd bet that if Margaret Donovan had still been in uniform when this administration came in, she would have been long gone by now. He's gotten rid of the JAGs, and it's horrifying that he's now being "advised" by someone who has never worn a uniform much less deployed in combat. I wonder if Hegseth or his “adviser" even know what the UCMJ is. If the competent officers with integrity like Admiral Holsey are gone, who is left? The people whose defense will be that they were just following orders. People at that level studied Nuremberg, they should remember how that turned out.
In the meantime, 80+ people and counting have been murdered in this operation. And the biggest question is still, for what? Clearly, it's not about the drugs - the Hernandez pardon confirms that. So, again: why?
A. OIL. OIL. OIL. Access to lots of BIG OIL money! $$$$. Wealth. Venezuela has huge oil reserves plus an industry. Trump and his big oil-money allies (think Saudi Arabia, think Putin's Russia...) want in! So does the Trump family itself. Remember. Trump has already tried manoeuvres against Venezuela during Trump 1.0. He sent Lev Parnas as a fixer to Venezuela then. Lev Parnas was later jailed and has since turned his life around.
What does Trump want more than anything, aside from the spotlight? Money. Money. Money. It's simple.
I would guess it’s more about TrumpOrg getting its hands on Venezuela's oil. Just like they want to do with Russia’s minerals. Look for Kushner to show up somewhere in the “negotiations” with Venezuela that will be next up. No one in the administration has even tried to justify Kushner’s presence in the Russia “negotiations” over Ukraine. And most media hasn’t asked either - it’s just reported as though Kushner had any business being there. Kushner has no formal or official status, so who is he “representing”? TrumpOrg and KushnerCo. They’re using the presidency to get into businesses they would have no other chance of being able to muscle into. Globalists, indeed.
Hegseth forgets that as the Secretary of Defense, the buck, with the decision to take these actions, stops with him - as should the consequences. If we had a functioning Department of Justice, this man would be in a world of hurt. Blowing up boats with no evidence or due process and murdering the crews is intolerable.
This is a riveting interview!! Jen asks exactly the questions on your mind about the legality of these strikes, and even the questions you wish you had thought to ask yourself!! And, Margaret Donovan is the perfect person to discuss this with, as a former JAG. Her insights on the pertinent law, and the military are keenly authoritative. An absolutely fascinating interview!!
This breaks down the current situation very well. The first really coherent analysis that I have seen, without the aimless renderings of those who equivocate as to whether this will be addressed. I am heartened to read that there is no statute of limitations on murder. We all do know that this administration will do nothing but try to cover up the whole thing. A real investigation and trial probably won't take place until 2028. I am hoping that there will be some justice administered here, and that Hegseth will be implicated, tried, and held responsible for the reckless and ill-considered operation that he heads.
I do not think there will be any criminal liability as to Hegseth. Trump will issue a blanket pardon for his Cabinet before he leaves office, just like President Biden did, although there is a distinction between the two. President Biden did it to protect many people from vindictive prosecutions, except possibly with respect to his son Hunter, and Trump will do it to protect his sycophants from well deserved prosecutions. However, he cannot protect Hegseth and others from impeachment, which is what needs to be done ASAP. The courts will be powerless in the face of the pardon power to stop this and Trump has already been prospectively pardoned by the Roberts Court, for which I suspect he thanked Roberts at Trump's inauguration. Only Congress can put an end to this before the midterms, when voters will have an opportunity to act, but will enough of them do so? Maybe, if enough retired military, citizen immigrants, and citizens of color break ranks. Maybe not if they see Congress acting like it has some backbone.
We should demand Hegseth be impeached or relentlessly pressured to resign. Breaking News on News Nation: New Strike on Alleged Drug Boat Kills 4. MSNOW: Pete Hegseth In Self-Made Crisis Mode On Multiple Fronts WATCHDOG: Hegseth Risked Potential Harm To U.S. Pilots
These are all headlines here on the evening news.
What a sobering and distressing conversation with Margaret Donovan. Congress must, without delay, get all the adults in the room to address this situation and investigate, document, and pursue all necessary action to hold Hegseth et al accountable. Impeach.
Will there be 2026 elections? Trump is working daily to declare a national emergency and postpone all elections!
And the rest of us are working to make sure that free and fair elections happen in 2026, just as they did in 2025
Thank you ... here's hoping!
Excellent interview. Both Margaret Donovan and Jen Rubin know their way around the law. I was so pleased to hear clear legal references. Life-time liability. No statute of limitations.
The AI transcription of these videos seems to be getting worse and worse.
That's certainly true! It described Margaret Donovan as a former 'drag'. How unusual, I thought. I don't recall her saying that. Then I realized: oh, yeah, JAG.
What a marvelous interview: clear, concise, bare truth unflinchingly laid out. And from an individual so clearly well informed, knowledgeable as an attorney and former JAG with a clear eyed intelligence as well as a strict moral compass.
I am most concerned about the confirmation that our troops are not being protected from illegal orders by their chain of command. As at every other agency, at the very beginning of this administration Hegseth purged the competent officers with enough integrity to stand up to him, and hollowed out the professional core. I'd bet that if Margaret Donovan had still been in uniform when this administration came in, she would have been long gone by now. He's gotten rid of the JAGs, and it's horrifying that he's now being "advised" by someone who has never worn a uniform much less deployed in combat. I wonder if Hegseth or his “adviser" even know what the UCMJ is. If the competent officers with integrity like Admiral Holsey are gone, who is left? The people whose defense will be that they were just following orders. People at that level studied Nuremberg, they should remember how that turned out.
In the meantime, 80+ people and counting have been murdered in this operation. And the biggest question is still, for what? Clearly, it's not about the drugs - the Hernandez pardon confirms that. So, again: why?
A. OIL. OIL. OIL. Access to lots of BIG OIL money! $$$$. Wealth. Venezuela has huge oil reserves plus an industry. Trump and his big oil-money allies (think Saudi Arabia, think Putin's Russia...) want in! So does the Trump family itself. Remember. Trump has already tried manoeuvres against Venezuela during Trump 1.0. He sent Lev Parnas as a fixer to Venezuela then. Lev Parnas was later jailed and has since turned his life around.
What does Trump want more than anything, aside from the spotlight? Money. Money. Money. It's simple.
I would guess it’s more about TrumpOrg getting its hands on Venezuela's oil. Just like they want to do with Russia’s minerals. Look for Kushner to show up somewhere in the “negotiations” with Venezuela that will be next up. No one in the administration has even tried to justify Kushner’s presence in the Russia “negotiations” over Ukraine. And most media hasn’t asked either - it’s just reported as though Kushner had any business being there. Kushner has no formal or official status, so who is he “representing”? TrumpOrg and KushnerCo. They’re using the presidency to get into businesses they would have no other chance of being able to muscle into. Globalists, indeed.
Agreed
Hegseth forgets that as the Secretary of Defense, the buck, with the decision to take these actions, stops with him - as should the consequences. If we had a functioning Department of Justice, this man would be in a world of hurt. Blowing up boats with no evidence or due process and murdering the crews is intolerable.
Thanks to Jen for an excellent interview and to Margaret Donovan for her clear explanation of the military and legal issues involved.