157 Comments
User's avatar
Mike Hammer's avatar

My question is, if the military has already obeyed illegal orders by murdering the “narcoterrorists”, what is to stop them when it comes to American citizens.

Jocelyn Goranson's avatar

It is expecting too much that individual members of the military will refuse orders. They would land in jail. It would be hard enough for generals to refuse if they weren't all in Trump's pocket. This is going to have to be a civilian fight. Congress must act. They must impeach Hegseth for a start.

Steve 218's avatar

The attorneys of the JAG Corps were in a position to advise military leadership on the legality of orders. As Trump policy dismantled the JAG, there is no resource to turn to, so it will have to revert to Congress, assuming they will take responsibility.

patricia's avatar

yes, the heritage foundation has been very thorough

Patric Martin's avatar

I’m afraid we are going to find out.

Linda Weide's avatar

Whether or not they are stopped is very individual. Each member of the military has to decide what is their red line. Don't know if they really understand that. I hear representatives saying they do, but it is not clear. Also peer pressure for a lot of young people is powerful which is why the military culture has a reputation for not allowing dissent. Disobeying a superior is dangerous. What can they do? It comes down to the individual.

donna woodward's avatar

They can do the right thing. It they don't understand the Constitution and its imperatives they shouldn't take an oath to obey it.

Robin Brenner's avatar

How about we ask them to.

Steve 218's avatar

Oh, like what happend at Kent State in 1970?

Robot Bender's avatar

Maybe worse, like firing live ammunition at protesters.

Robin Brenner's avatar

Lyndon Johnson resigned and it was the beginning of the end of the Viet Nam war. Kent State was ugly - I was in my early 20s when that and a lot of other things happened. We need a new kind of activism; boycotts, general strikes, making it clear especially from the blue states that we are not going to stand by and continue to contribute 70% of US GDP. We haven't made any real sacrifices or participated in any real resistance in the face of trump's coup. We can do a lot to gum up his agenda by using our power, creative messaging (finally!), using our power as consumers. I'm scared, but I'm fired up and ready to go? One person alone can't do it; the masses can!

Linda Weide's avatar

I am finding the series of lessons on disinformation interesting that Olga Lautman and Julie Rogisky are doing because it seems like we need to be informing ourselves a lot on how fascism works in order to recognize it and defeat it.

https://open.substack.com/pub/olgalautman/p/disinformation-and-how-to-counter-250?r=f0qfn&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web&showWelcomeOnShare=false

Robot Bender's avatar

We may see the military split into factions.

Robin Brenner's avatar

We may start seeing his MAGA rabid supporters split off to once they see how bad trump's policies are going to hurt them personally. We should be talking to them; messaging them; encouraging the breaking of the cultish spell. From what I read and hear, they're not as happy as they thought they'd be having supported this administration. Now they have trump's real dark power beginning to control every aspect of their, and our, lives. No medicare, high prices, masked police & military in our streets, employees being hauled away to who know where, no radio, no hospitals, no medicine availability. The polls are turning. We do have power. We have a lot of power of the purse if we pull together - we have a consumer economy; blue states contribute 70% of US GDP. Let's do something.

Curtis P's avatar

Pete Hegseth and Project 2025 is hard at work with the firing and purging of highly decorated and extremely qualified generals, admirals and lower-ranking military personnel deemed not “loyal” enough to p47, and replaced with hard-core MAGA sympathetic military and civilian personnel rather than those who took the oath to uphold and obey the Constitution.

Those who have replaced the former generals and admirals have forgotten the history of blind obediency. They should look no further than the Nuremberg trials of 1945-1946. It didn’t end well for those on trial.

Linda A's avatar

I woke up at 2 am with that very question.

It's Come To This's avatar

Truck Fump. And his little minions, too. Every day, louder and louder, the Resistance grows stronger. He just lost his Emperor’s Beautiful New Clothes $15 billion vanity lawsuit against The New York Times, with the presiding judge barely able to conceal his contempt and laughter.

The whole Rube Goldberg contraption creaks and sways violently in the wind. They are not winning. Winter is coming. They are not prepared, and they know it.

Daniel Solomon's avatar

From DIRECT ACTION ALERT: We’re calling for protests at all Fox affiliates throughout the country today, Saturday, September 20, 2025 at 1PM.

We will be present at the Fox affiliate in Denver (Fox 31, 100 Speer Blvd. Denver, CO 80203).

Please join a Fox Takedown event or create your own protest. We’re asking everyone to join us in protesting for freedom of speech and against the network that called for the mass murder of unhoused Americans.

In solidarity, The American Opposition Team

https://www.americanopposition.org/?ss_source=sscampaigns&ss_campaign_id=68cdbee852111b28766a92e8&ss_email_id=68cdc18021ccdc171d2d417b&ss_campaign_name=Direct+Action+Alert%3A+Fox+News+Protests+on+9%2F20&ss_campaign_sent_date=2025-09-19T20%3A48%3A09Z

Robin Brenner's avatar

We don't even have to take to the streets. Our history has had general strikes and boycotts in the past. Let's be clever and hurt him where it'll really make a difference. We're living in his disruptive dystopia. Let's have the guts to say no and to make those who are bending knees pay the price of consumer driven disruption. It'll cause lots of pain, but this is a coup and we must stop it now.

donna woodward's avatar

I love your new (opening) phrase! May it gain traction and show up on posters and T-shirts all over the place. I agree that his increasingly frenzied actions are a sign that his people know they're losing ground.

Steve 218's avatar

All I can say is beware of cornered rats. They don't behave rationally. Just look at the federalizing of the National Guard as example.

Robin Brenner's avatar

Posters and T-shirts will do nothing to stop this coup. Sorry, but we have to face this.

RRiveter's avatar

Wasn't the judge's response absolutely brilliant? I read it twice, and laughed out loud. And that guy was appointed by old man Bush I believe, who was a traditional Republican, and not a nut; had real capabilities, not just a big mouth and a perverse need for control. Although I think many of the judge's comments were astonished ones which could be construed as the lawsuit being laughable, which it is, I also think the judge was outraged that Trump's lawyers would present such an absolutely incompetent and ridiculously written lawsuit and waste his time. Judges do not like that sort of shit at all, no judge in any court. They expect lawyers who present any kind of written document to do it competently and professionally, and not be on the clown train. I think the judge made that extremely clear: do not waste my time and work outside the constraints of the law. Either present a lawsuit cogently with actual meaningful words, or do not present at all.

Robin Brenner's avatar

And he'll continue to do what he's doing, brilliant judicial response or not.

RRiveter's avatar

Oh, I'm sure he'll try, as always, and as laughably and illegally, and the judge will shoot it down again, if it doesn't meet the legal standard. And by any remote stretch of the imagination, if it does meet legal standards, the NYT will sic their lawyers on them like (excuse my Detroit phrase): stink on shit. Now, of course, they could acquiesce like so many media outlets have, but somehow, I don't see NYT doing this. Hopefully, I'm not wrong. Just like Harvard and Chicago, I simply don't see the NYT rolling over and playing dead. Maybe I'm full of it, but I do have hope that they will fight any lawsuit with everything they have.

Jay Jay Eh's avatar

True, but look at the ridiculous material they had to work with. (Trump lawyers).

It’s a wonder they came up with anything at all.

RRiveter's avatar

There have been so many "Trump lawyers", who knows who is representing the con?

Robin Brenner's avatar

He loses in the courts and this doesn't stop him.

RRiveter's avatar

True, but it doesn't gain him anything either. He can spin it anyway he wants, but a legal loss is a legal loss.

patricia's avatar

It's come, I am afraid the MAGAS and evangelicals see this whole mess as a holy war....and we all know how bad that is.

RRiveter's avatar

Well, Saladin won a lot of those holy wars, until, of course, he didn't. By then, hopefully the Magas, et al will be history.

Swbv's avatar
Sep 20Edited

Past is prologue. Trump ran his past casinos, universities and numerous real estate developments like they were competitors in a demolition derby. As long as he came out on top, he was happy to see creditors and contractors go unpaid, he was comfortable being crass and selfish. Anyone who expected him to change once he gained the White House, was delusional.

Nonetheless, I'm sorry that the craven nothingness known as Mike Johnson would not seek to bring back stability and normality to our undeniably successful republic. Instead, he's waiving the finish flag in this newest demolition derby.

patricia's avatar

johnson is on a crusade for christ...expect no help from him

Swbv's avatar

Curious how his understanding of Christ makes Donald Trump a good guy

patricia's avatar

ha ha true ! luckily the REAL Christ knows the truth

Robin Brenner's avatar

Listen to Reverend Dr. William Barber if you want encouragement.

patricia's avatar

I agree thanks he is great

Robin Brenner's avatar

So what do we do about it?

Swbv's avatar

Vote blue in Nov 2026 and any interims that are in your state.

Wendyl's avatar

Norm, thanks for your awesome work fighting back. I am so grateful to you, Democracy Defenders Fund, Jen and all the Contrarian staff and contributors. Heroes all.

Marilyn's avatar

I cancelled my WaPo subscription when they refused to endorse a presidential candidate in 2023. I then broke down and re-subscribed when they offered 50% off - mostly because I missed advice columnist Carolyn Hax and WaPo’s once-stimulating comment sections. Since then, I have been increasingly disgusted by their milk-toast reporting, the proliferation of right wing bots and/or trolls and senseless censoring in their comments sections, and their firing of their last Black columnist for speaking the truth. I have cancelled my subscription, effective November 15. So sad that a once-great newspaper has fallen into such a pit of belly-crawling cowardice.

Steve 218's avatar

I was hooked into another year before the objective opinion journalists fled the scene. With only occasional articles from Dana Milbank and Matt Bai, what's left is Marc Thiessen and a vast wasteland. My subscription ends in November. It won't be renewed as long as Bezos and Lewis are at the helm. The Graham, Meyer, and Bradlee families would be horrified.

Robin Brenner's avatar

And Amazon Prime, FaceBook, Walmart, Target, ABC, Disney, CBS, NBC, any other org that bends its knee. It's time to sacrifice and what I just listed is whimpy compared to what my parent's generation sacrificed 80 years ago. Where's our grit & gumption?

Steve 218's avatar

Collectively, we like our conveniences. Significant sacrifices are unpopular. There does, however, have to come a tipping point.

Robin Brenner's avatar

I gave up FaceBook, Amazon, WaPo, Walmart, Target, etc. months and for some years ago. We consumers, if we do things massively, need to show our power. No more ABC, Disney, CBS, NBC, any org that bends its knee. Can you imagine millions of us simply saying no and cancelling all of it. How about we sacrifice like my parents' generation did 80 years ago!

Scott Helmers's avatar

Does anyone trust the Supreme Court to follow the Constitution anymore? We know Alito and Thomas are automatic for anything Trump. Probably Gorsuch. Kavanaugh, Barrett, and Roberts are somewhat the unknowns, and the country depends on two of them being true to the law. I am not confident.

patricia's avatar

scrotus part of project 2025

Carl Selfe's avatar

My observations are that Charlie Kirk’s killer was apolitical and neither recruited, nor radicalized. The Discord app for group text, video, screen sharing, and discussions is used by gamers, not for politics. In Discord over 6 years, Tyler Robinson, an avid gamer, used the word Trump once in 2019, and the word Biden once in 2020. That is it, people. I call that apolitical. His friends said he never talked politics. Only games.

For political reasons, the Administration and the Republican Utah governor are trying very hard to paint Tyler Robinson into the left camp. The right needs that Reichstag Fire pivotal event, the root of their biases (plural).

Tyler Robinson had a grudge against homophobic Charlie Kirk. Tyler could not resolve that. Evidently Tyler Robinson’s mother said he had moved left recently. I think first, slightly to the left of Nick Fuentes, then that his mother and the Utah governor conflate bisexuality with the left.

Therein lies a problem. Many on the right are confused by God-given sexual orientations. Confused, they indiscriminately throw out chum. Bloody chum in the water brings sharks. Frenzied sharks will bite anything. That is not violence. What they bite brings to them emotionally soothing food.

There is a need for health social services to address those emotionally challenged individuals that strike out with gunshots. Instead of reaching out to help, some crazed individuals with megaphones torture them repeatedly with heteronormativity. Alex Jones. Charlie Kirk, et al.

That is not politics, that is abuse. Yes. This is systemic abuse and societal failure. Those are both fixable. Some do not want to fix. They want to exploit it to make money. I am disgusted by those making a living by bellowing insults in this type of torture chamber.

https://hotbuttons.substack.com/p/bloody-chum?r=3m1bs

It's Come To This's avatar

I defy anyone to make ideological sense out of this lonely, lone wolf who's only "community" was a violent gaming one -- hardly a Bolshevik talking shop. The markings on his bullet casings demonstrate mental incoherence, memes known only to this weird community, piled on top of other memes, put there more than anything else to attract attention, which these young men clearly desperately crave, along with reveling in make-believe worlds filled with simulated violence. One of the memes simply read: "If you can read this you are gay LMAO." I defy anyone to make any real sense of any of it.

Bloody chum indeed. It doesn't attract saints, that much is for sure. And the ghastliness of Kirk's cold-blooded murder doesn't turn its victim into a Mahatma Gandhi, either. We must be very clear about this.

Robin Brenner's avatar

Use our power as consumers: boycotts, general strikes, things other Americans have done throughout history. If we all, massively, stopped purchasing anything other than necessities, cancelled WaPo, FaceBook (anything META), google, Amazon (!!!), CBS, NBC, any other org that's bent a knee and then buy only from those orgs with the guts to stand up with us, how powerful (and disruptive to trumpism) would that be?

patricia's avatar

we old people don't understand these things...

Robin Brenner's avatar

I'm old and marched for civil rights, anti-Viet Nam, and women's rights in the 60s. I can do it again.

patricia's avatar

I also did these things...I meant we are not aware of how much the video game culture is real to young people...I had no idea they had code words etc. !

CE's avatar

Sadly for us….when the President is a power-hungry thin-skinned narcissist, when Congress steadfastly refuses to assert its status as separate and equal, and when the Supreme Court is in the pocket of Donald J Trump, the savaging of the Constitution is complete. We have no guardrails.

It's Come To This's avatar

We are the guardrails we seek. And we are stronger than we think, and much more than they believe.

CE's avatar

Really? I see virtually no pushback from ordinary folks. Our Democratic leaders are mostly mute and definitely not persuasive. Here on Substack we live in a (heartening!) echo chamber. Know this..if the Trump Administration comes for you, you have no guardrails. There will be concern, there will be little to no action. The majority of Americans are complacent. The ”we” is asleep at the wheel. Ask your friends..”have you contacted your elected folks? Written ABC, Disney, or local affiliates’ advertisers?” I guarantee you’ll be sadly disappointed.

It's Come To This's avatar

There is pushback all around you. If "we" were asleep, "we" are now waking up. Adam Schiff laid out the clearest platform against all of this I've yet heard yesterday at the Center for American Progress. Governor Pritzker is rallying people around their daily violations of federalism. Pete Buttigieg brought down the house in Indiana condemning their cheating gerrymandering. Gavin Newsom exasperates the fragile beast every day, driving him bonkers.

Opposition is all around, and it's getting more intense every day. The entire Rube Goldberg contraption is creaking and beginning to sway violently in the wind. Of course, we all see what we want to see, but change is impossible without a vision of where you want to go first.

Steve 218's avatar

We aren't seeing as much reporting or publicity from MSM on the protests because corporate-owned media doesn't want to ruffle little Trupmie's feathers. A free and independent press is becoming a thing of the past.

Lenny Rothbart's avatar

No it’s not. You just posted on one.

Steve 218's avatar

Is Subsack MSM now? If so, I stand corrected. I was talking about the major corporate controlled media.

CE's avatar

I wish you were right, I fear that you’re not. I am doing everything that I can, writing, calling, boycotting, protesting…but the number of folks that I know personally who wail, gnash their teeth and simply stand by, is staggering. I guess that until and unless it hits America much harder than it has, the apathy will continue. And remember, nearly half the nation actually approves of Trump.

Jeff's avatar

His approval ratings have been in the low 40s and even dipped below 40 in one poll I saw this week.

CE's avatar

That means that 40% of Americans APPROVE. That is frightening…..

Robin Brenner's avatar

Blue states, historically and currently contributing 70% to US GDP, have enormous power if they all stand together and simply, in unison, say no. What would trump's economy do without us doling out our hard-earned Federal tax $ to the "welfare" Red state who take from us and give back only disrespect. Please note that I don't blame the poor, blue color and rural people in the Red states who've been let down by their own "low tax" political leaders for 50 years. I want them to thrive, not be held down and incited against their own interests. We need to flex our muscles, the 164 million of us who live in New England, New York, New Jersey, Michigan, Wisconsin, Illinois, Washington, Oregon, California, etc. etc. We have power if we'd only wield it. And wield it now.

Punkette's avatar

Pushing doom and gloom just feeds the authoritarian monster. All the “ordinary folks” I know are pushing back, hard. If those around you are complacent, then speak up and set the example. Courage is contagious.

Daniel Solomon's avatar

See the DIRECT ACTION ALERT, above.

And now the news. 1. Senate rejects competing bills to fund government, increasing risk of shutdown on Oct. 1.

2. Trump suggests US troops could return to base in Afghanistan, citing its proximity to rival China

3. Zelenskiy says Ukrainian forces inflict heavy losses on Russia in counteroffensive

4. U.S. Government Is Expected to Get Multibillion-Dollar Fee in TikTok Deal

Fee would be latest example of government getting paid for involvement in private-sector deals

5. Trump adds $100,000 fee for skilled worker visa applicants

6. Sacramento man arrested in shooting at ABC10 news station, police say

7. US military conducts third fatal strike on alleged drug smuggling vessel

patricia's avatar

yes, I am very disturbed by the large # of young people who are in awe of the charlie...and see no conflict of the charlie life now that his wife has a JOB...making millions of dollars

CE's avatar

Charlie would disapprove of any woman doing what his wife is proposing to do.

patricia's avatar

to be fair, perhaps the charlie did believe what he spouted...clearly his wife did not...she was I believe miss arizona in her past

patricia's avatar

she knows it too but is not about to give making millions of $$$ to anyone else...we know the charlie was FOS but fear the charlie lovers are too dumb to see the conflict

Robin Brenner's avatar

General strikes, boycotts, but even getting off FaceBook, Amazon, etc, etc. would show just how powerful we are. Strikes and boycotts wouldn't last long if 100 million of us participated, believe me. They don't have immigrants to fill in for us anymore....

Susan Stone's avatar

Norm, I just have to say that even $40 million wouldn't tempt me to watch a documentary about Melania.

Richard S's avatar

Ken Burns made the documentary ‘The Tenth Inning’ for $5 million.

His upcoming six-part, 12-hour documentary, ‘The American Revolution,’ cost $30 million.

The Melania nonsense is nothing but a bribe, a payoff, a ‘please allow me to kiss your ass.’

Susan Stone's avatar

I just looked up who made that documentary, and noticed that he is yet another one who has been accused of sexual misconduct by a bunch of women. How appropriate that he would be kissing up to trump.

patricia's avatar

what could it possibly be about ? whoring for fun and profit ?

Susan Stone's avatar

I like the way you think. It could also include tips on how to overstay and violate your visa.

Linda Weide's avatar

I am in Chicago. In addition to being concerned about how the Trump regime is removing our rights to free speech, I am also concerned with how immigrants are losing their rights to live here.

I wrote about my dependence on immigrants here.

https://lindaweide.substack.com/p/view-from-chicago-no-ice-no-fear?r=f0qfn

And, yesterday on how they are being affected by ICE.

https://lindaweide.substack.com/p/view-from-chicago-life-with-ice-is?r=f0qfn

We are losing rights on all fronts. We need to be making sure that Democrats run for even small races.

David Krupp's avatar

They can be doomed if the American people vote ALL Republicans out of office.

Start by electing these Democrats on Nov. 4, 2025:

Abigail Spanberger for Governor of Virginia and

Mikie Sherrill for Governor of NewJersey.

patricia's avatar

this will prove to be difficult in view of the large # of young repubes I am now aware exist...

The Peaceful Solution-Plan B's avatar

This could be the Mother of All Spending Strikes. The looming government shutdown is an opportunity to hold the Rat accountable and stop his atrocities, and the fascist takeover of the country. We, the People cannot easily withhold our tax dollars from the Rat, but the Dems in the Senate have that opportunity.

A U.S. president cannot spend money without an appropriation from Congress, which holds the "power of the purse".

Direct spending is prohibited.

Constitutional power: The Constitution's Appropriations Clause states, "No Money shall be drawn from the Treasury, but in Consequence of Appropriations made by Law".

The Dems in the Senate must have a list of demands under which they would vote to keep the government running. Such as, the Congress sets tariffs, ICE only goes after violent convicted felons, no one is deported to a third party country, and so forth. And that willingness to fund the government would be on a week to week basis, to prevent the Rat from going back on his commitment.

If congress refuses to authorize appropriations, the Rat will not have money to operate his corrupt, inept, sadistic government. A chance for the Dems to prove they’re not the feckless cowards they’ve been up until now.

Michelle Jordan's avatar

During the hearing of the former CDC director Susan Monarez a few GOP senators revealed their true colors. It was absolutely disgusting to say the least. Mark Wayne Mullin a blatant liar was essentially called out right then and there. Rand Paul revealed to the world what a moron he is by asking Dr. Monarez a series of totally foolish gotcha questions that have nothing to do with the safety or effectiveness of the Covid 19 vaccine. Ashley Moody and a couple others were bullying her about who and why she had picked Mark Zaid to be her attorney. They all are in a pickle because she didn’t bite on any of their unethical nonscientific bullshit.

She was smart to force the felon to fire her instead of just quitting making it too damn easy for the felon’s sycophants to just shrug it off because then it forces accountability on the senate that confirmed RFK Jr.. It’s clear Kennedy needs to go. It’s obvious he’s a grifter and doesn’t give a damn about public health.

donna woodward's avatar

Those persons who've resigned their positions under duress should all sue for constructive discharge and seek reinstatement, back pay and damages. Some who were fired have sued to get their jobs back. (The really brave one, Lisa Cook, simply refused to leave!) But even those who resigned very likely have legal grounds for seeking re-employment. They should go for it. Tie this president up in legal red tape as he's doing to others.

Jeannine Stearns's avatar

I wonder how long charities will be able to survive if they’re forced to take expensive legal action to bring court proceedings against him. He has the unlimited coffers of the government since the legislature refuses to stand up and reclaim their control of the purse. While he ultimately loses these cases in court, the damage is done when legal fees are overwhelming.

Jay Jay Eh's avatar

That was Trump’s MO in real estate biz too — wrap up the little guy in court, suing him for payment of services. The little guy can’t afford the legal fees & folds : it’s amoral but Trump sycophants prefer to consider him simply a shrewd businessman. 🤮

Steve 218's avatar

"He is reportedly developing plans to use the vast power of the executive branch to shut down, silence, and even criminally prosecute organizations he dislikes."

Judge Stephen Merrydale took a stand against Trump's frivolous lawsuit against the NYT, saying that the complaint was more like a London Speaker's Corner rant. No doubt there will be an appeal, and hopefully a similar outcome. The courts appear to be getting tired of his whingeing.

As for the Washington Post, just look at the mass exodus of opinion and other journalists from the ranks of their writers. When quality leaves, what is left? As a kid in D.C., I used to read and deliver that paper. I'd not put out the effort to do that today. It's getting too close to bird cage liner.

donna woodward's avatar

I'd love to see NYT journalists start to leave, especially those with the largest following of readers. Soon the NYT may get the message: they can't keep readers if they continue to give this president so much, and such favorable, coverage. Also the ABC/Disney money-makers: let them quit in solidarity with Jimmy Kimmel, with us all. There's hardly a media company--or business of any kind, that we can ethically patronize. We can't quit everything but we can minimize our consumption.

Steve 218's avatar

How can you say that the NYT gives Trump so much favorable coverage when Trump sued the Times for maligning him so much? Fortunately, Judge Merrydale didn't see the value and sacked the case.

donna woodward's avatar

That the president sues someone doesn't mean they have actually maligned him. He may feel maligned because to that most thin-skinned of narcissists, anything that's not over-the-top praise is to him the equivalent of "nastiness," to use one of his favorite adjectives. The NYT was among those media outlets that fed into the president's dishonest message by calling the shooting an "assassination." That paper has been full of Kirk news for a week. (How about the schoolchildren shot on the same day?) The fact is that since 2015 the NYT has been one of the media organizations that's kept him in the news and normalized him as a candidate. So yes, I think the NYT has given and continues to give this imposter too much positive coverage.

Dr Michael J Wagner's avatar

“Ultimately, though,” Schiff said, “the most powerful check on Trump’s authoritarianism is not Congress. It is not the courts. It is the American people.” That, in today's Heather Cox Richardson blog. Folks, we should have seen this comming, but now it's time to take charge. Otherwise it's going to get worse - until you won't want to live here anymore.

Robot Bender's avatar

I've already had that thought, but we can't leave because family...

patricia's avatar

where would one go ??