"Trump and his administration are trying to squelch efforts on social media to weed out false claims, to just make it a free-for-all where anything goes."
Social media platforms have aggravated the problem for sure; and the transformation of the Murdoch empire (with the exception of the WSJ) from a right-wing but fundamentally journalistic enterprise into a manic, shameless, downright grotesque Republican propaganda apparatus has made matters that much worse.
But there's also a problem at what remains of supposedly legitimate news outlets, which could even now be powerful voices for US democracy: but only if they so chose.
Bezos and Lewis have demolished the Washington Post, once one of the greatest brands in US journalism. There are still some good reporters at the Post, but you get the feeling it's mostly because they haven't found other jobs yet. The decline and fall of the Post is a fire bell in the night, when it comes to US journalism and the First Amendment.
The extraordinary, fearful caution and bothsidesism that cloud editorial judgment at the New York Times diminish its good reporting, too, although it's not as far gone as the Post.
As for the corporate-owned network news outlets, once high-status loss leaders for their multi-billion-dollar corporate owners, they are vulnerable to federal games of blackmail and extortion, as ABC and, God knows, CBS have demonstrated (CBS under David Ellison threatens to become a slightly uptown version of Fox; ABC is not veering quite so shamelessly to the right, but it is pulling its punches).
PBS and NPR have now demonstrated how futile it is to give in to Republican pressure by tacking to a "center" that gets moved further and further right. Try as they did for many, many years to placate the Republicans by pulling their punches, killing key stories on demand, and engaging in New York Times style "neutral" journalism (which always, always, always insulates and benefits Republicans), in the end they were defunded.
Calling lies untruths or fabrications seems as though there is a reason a person cannot come to use the word, but I feel it is an important word. The description in the interview of a reason not to use the flat out true word was interesting, though. I appreciated hearing what you were told, yet I think you should have been allowed to say what it was. Glenn. That fact, makes your use of Pinocchio‘s all the more clever, interesting, and still to the point! It certainly grabbed my attention favorably!
Welcome Glenn Kessler! After reading that you were leaving the Washington Post, (and one more reason for letting my subscription expire) it's wonderful to have you here at The Contrarian. With all of the misinformation and lies spinning about us today, fact checking has become more important than ever. Carry on, please!
Hearing numbers of lies found and comparisons was especially interesting, too, although I really did not expect any in a couple of people’s records. I can understand that an honest person can occasionally make a mistake in presenting what he believes is a fact, but if a person is known to lie, then we know we cannot trust or depend on that liar at all. Not only can we, the people of our country not place trust in such a person, neither can anyone in the rest of the world have trust for that person either.
Jennifer, why have you succumbed to the Republican use of the word democrat as an adjective (“democrat politicians”) when in fact, it is a noun. This was a deliberate effort by Republicans to make democrats sound bad because the clearly wrong grammatical usage is jarring to the ear and subconsciously creates a negative impression about Democrats. I am so disappointed in the media for buying into this usage. I thought the Contrarian was better than that.
Jen and Glenn, thank you for this fascinating interview! Ever since you left the paper, Jen, I have seldom looked at the Washington Post, and simply let my subscription run out. I was deeply displeased at the owner’s ruinous and unfair decision regarding ore-election/campaign reporting.
Always though, I did appreciate the fact checking. Glenn, I especially appreciated hearing more about that and your experiences, including learning that you are the one who started the use of Pinocchios! Thank you for all you did!
Thank you each for all you have done and are doing, as well as planning to do. Always, too, I appreciate your clean language. Despite hopes and expectations, it is not always characteristic in some other places. Your ways remain admirable, Jen.
trump has coopted the whole GOP to be the lying party. They know they're lying; it's so obvious because they know they can get away with anything. This is really pussyfooting about the word "lie"; it's the antonym of truth.
We are living smack in the middle of Crazy Land. As long as I live, I will never figure out why people are so drawn to lies and absurdities. Rational people hear nonsense and ask rationally ‘what’s the evidence for that?’ or calling it ‘false.’
But maybe they should just yell “BULLSHIT!” at the Speaker. We’re dealing with the biggest zombie cult in history. It is literally choking the lifeblood of the country. Our discourse is now filled with sheer idiocy insisting it be taken seriously. Gaslighting has become the new normal, instead of the rare aberration.
Ok. Someone needs to tell Mr Kessler that if he wants to be accepted on the Contrarian he needs to check his disgusting casual misogyny at the door. How dare he sneer at the 20+ years of mass rape by epstein et al. How many raped children does it take before it meets Kessler's criteria for being a serious story? A thousand? Ten thousand? And what no one seems to be talking about is how the entire reason for epstein to build his pyramid scheme was to have hundreds of powerful rich people to blackmail. Good grief. This whole thing has the potential for global effects of monstrous proportions. Was epstein bankrolled by russia? Or saudi? Or how about blackwater or some other multinational mercenary arms dealer? Who were his clients? Who was pulling the strings?? So if mass rape isn’t enough for Mr Kessler, how about the invasion of Iraq? If he wants to be welcome here on the Contrarian he needs to understand that this is NOT at all like msm. Here, women are equal and respected and our stories are important. Period. Pun intended. How dare he.
Such a great discussion of an overlooked topic. You both are on top of this gelatinous subject at its most provocative, at a time when the distinction between subjective and objective are almost considered to be irrelevant.
Of we ever get through all this tragedy intact, we should do like they did after the Civil war- lots of amendments with teeth to protect truth in all media, to bring back citizens united and stop money in politics etc etc.
Why did Glenn leave WaPo? Was it bec of their terrible policies or natural retirement etc. I of course stopped the paper when everybody else did, but I resubscribed yesterday because WaPo even biased is something, these days with such draconian policies.
I believe the importance of fact checking is even greater than ever. Thank you for letting us in on the changes over time and what they mean.
Glenn Kessler is a great journalist.
Social media platforms have aggravated the problem for sure; and the transformation of the Murdoch empire (with the exception of the WSJ) from a right-wing but fundamentally journalistic enterprise into a manic, shameless, downright grotesque Republican propaganda apparatus has made matters that much worse.
But there's also a problem at what remains of supposedly legitimate news outlets, which could even now be powerful voices for US democracy: but only if they so chose.
Bezos and Lewis have demolished the Washington Post, once one of the greatest brands in US journalism. There are still some good reporters at the Post, but you get the feeling it's mostly because they haven't found other jobs yet. The decline and fall of the Post is a fire bell in the night, when it comes to US journalism and the First Amendment.
The extraordinary, fearful caution and bothsidesism that cloud editorial judgment at the New York Times diminish its good reporting, too, although it's not as far gone as the Post.
As for the corporate-owned network news outlets, once high-status loss leaders for their multi-billion-dollar corporate owners, they are vulnerable to federal games of blackmail and extortion, as ABC and, God knows, CBS have demonstrated (CBS under David Ellison threatens to become a slightly uptown version of Fox; ABC is not veering quite so shamelessly to the right, but it is pulling its punches).
PBS and NPR have now demonstrated how futile it is to give in to Republican pressure by tacking to a "center" that gets moved further and further right. Try as they did for many, many years to placate the Republicans by pulling their punches, killing key stories on demand, and engaging in New York Times style "neutral" journalism (which always, always, always insulates and benefits Republicans), in the end they were defunded.
Appeasement never works. It's viewed as weakness, and there are always more and still more demands made. Fear of retribution isn't bravery.
Jen, Glenn, and others are admirably brave.
Welcome to post-truth America.
Euphemisms for lies: prevarication, mendacity, disingenuousness. I was relieved when lies were finally called lies or at minimum untrue.
Calling lies untruths or fabrications seems as though there is a reason a person cannot come to use the word, but I feel it is an important word. The description in the interview of a reason not to use the flat out true word was interesting, though. I appreciated hearing what you were told, yet I think you should have been allowed to say what it was. Glenn. That fact, makes your use of Pinocchio‘s all the more clever, interesting, and still to the point! It certainly grabbed my attention favorably!
Not everyone has gotten the message yet. Many are still unable to utter or write the simple word 'lies'.
Welcome Glenn Kessler! After reading that you were leaving the Washington Post, (and one more reason for letting my subscription expire) it's wonderful to have you here at The Contrarian. With all of the misinformation and lies spinning about us today, fact checking has become more important than ever. Carry on, please!
Hearing numbers of lies found and comparisons was especially interesting, too, although I really did not expect any in a couple of people’s records. I can understand that an honest person can occasionally make a mistake in presenting what he believes is a fact, but if a person is known to lie, then we know we cannot trust or depend on that liar at all. Not only can we, the people of our country not place trust in such a person, neither can anyone in the rest of the world have trust for that person either.
Jennifer, why have you succumbed to the Republican use of the word democrat as an adjective (“democrat politicians”) when in fact, it is a noun. This was a deliberate effort by Republicans to make democrats sound bad because the clearly wrong grammatical usage is jarring to the ear and subconsciously creates a negative impression about Democrats. I am so disappointed in the media for buying into this usage. I thought the Contrarian was better than that.
Jen and Glenn, thank you for this fascinating interview! Ever since you left the paper, Jen, I have seldom looked at the Washington Post, and simply let my subscription run out. I was deeply displeased at the owner’s ruinous and unfair decision regarding ore-election/campaign reporting.
Always though, I did appreciate the fact checking. Glenn, I especially appreciated hearing more about that and your experiences, including learning that you are the one who started the use of Pinocchios! Thank you for all you did!
Thank you each for all you have done and are doing, as well as planning to do. Always, too, I appreciate your clean language. Despite hopes and expectations, it is not always characteristic in some other places. Your ways remain admirable, Jen.
trump has coopted the whole GOP to be the lying party. They know they're lying; it's so obvious because they know they can get away with anything. This is really pussyfooting about the word "lie"; it's the antonym of truth.
We are living smack in the middle of Crazy Land. As long as I live, I will never figure out why people are so drawn to lies and absurdities. Rational people hear nonsense and ask rationally ‘what’s the evidence for that?’ or calling it ‘false.’
But maybe they should just yell “BULLSHIT!” at the Speaker. We’re dealing with the biggest zombie cult in history. It is literally choking the lifeblood of the country. Our discourse is now filled with sheer idiocy insisting it be taken seriously. Gaslighting has become the new normal, instead of the rare aberration.
Ok. Someone needs to tell Mr Kessler that if he wants to be accepted on the Contrarian he needs to check his disgusting casual misogyny at the door. How dare he sneer at the 20+ years of mass rape by epstein et al. How many raped children does it take before it meets Kessler's criteria for being a serious story? A thousand? Ten thousand? And what no one seems to be talking about is how the entire reason for epstein to build his pyramid scheme was to have hundreds of powerful rich people to blackmail. Good grief. This whole thing has the potential for global effects of monstrous proportions. Was epstein bankrolled by russia? Or saudi? Or how about blackwater or some other multinational mercenary arms dealer? Who were his clients? Who was pulling the strings?? So if mass rape isn’t enough for Mr Kessler, how about the invasion of Iraq? If he wants to be welcome here on the Contrarian he needs to understand that this is NOT at all like msm. Here, women are equal and respected and our stories are important. Period. Pun intended. How dare he.
Such a great discussion of an overlooked topic. You both are on top of this gelatinous subject at its most provocative, at a time when the distinction between subjective and objective are almost considered to be irrelevant.
Of we ever get through all this tragedy intact, we should do like they did after the Civil war- lots of amendments with teeth to protect truth in all media, to bring back citizens united and stop money in politics etc etc.
The "truth sandwich" was developed by neurolinguist George Lakoff of UC Berkeley.
Fact checking is important but so is updating the facts.
Why did Glenn leave WaPo? Was it bec of their terrible policies or natural retirement etc. I of course stopped the paper when everybody else did, but I resubscribed yesterday because WaPo even biased is something, these days with such draconian policies.