I'll go out on a limb and say that in the big picture, in terms of the damage he has done to Jewry the world over, Netanyahu is the worst thing to happen since the end of the Second World War.
Yes, Ivan, and Donald Trump is the worst thing that has happened to the USA in my lifetime - I'm almost 83 years old. The corrupt, power-hungry combination of Bibi and The Don have taken a toll on both countries.
I made a statement that Netanyahu is the worst thing to happen to Jews and you literally hijacked the topic to include Palestinians to which I replied “duh” (as in of course he is but that’s not the topic of discussion). My statement had nothing to do with the Palestinian issue. So, please tell me where you’re coming from since you seem to like hijacking a topic. And what do you mean by “Oh I see?”
Dr. Wagner, I've been terribly disappointed in the press coverage of anything concerning Trump. Our Atlanta newspaper, The Atlanta Journal Constitution, has been noticeably more balanced and willing to criticize the Right and Trump, especially since they announced that they would discontinue their print version at the end of this year. It occurs to me that their fear of a lawsuit has diminished, and even on their opinion page, the reader comments are definitely more skewed to the left. This is notable, since Atlanta is still influenced by conservatives, and our State government is majority Republican. Like most universities (but not Princeton) that have bent the knee to these despots the terror of being sued for billions, most public institutions are cowed by threats that will cost them money. The Washington Post, among others, has gone to the dark side.
Like this line: 'Israelis have been traumatized (as have Gazans)' ...equating the suffering of Israel, the country that has committed genocide in Gaza, with those people who have been the victims of that genocide, who have had their entire society reduced to rubble, who are still dying right now....yes, very 'astute'.
Yes, 'very astute' to mention the impact of the 'interminable war with unimaginable horrors' ... on those soldiers who inflected those horrors,. while quickly only mentioning the 'grief' of the actual victims, passively noting their 'loved ones were killed or maimed' by some unnamed source....who killed them? Who knows? Who cares? That is not part of the 'astute analysis'.
(Oh, I apologize for not worshiping every word Rubin writes. I know the role of a 'contrarian' reader is to agree with everything written here).
Well, you win the dumbest comment I have read in this thread so far.
Since you made it clear below that you only care abut the opinion of 'any Jew or Israeli', let's list a few that have affirmed what is obvious to anyone with a functioning brain:
Note - genocide has a legal definition. It isn't based on your feelings, and it does not mean killing every single last member of a given group. I am not surprised that you don't know this obvious fact, or care.
But hey, don't listen to me:
Maybe start with Israeli historian and genocide scholar Omer Bartov, who wrote this in the NY Times this summer:
"My inescapable conclusion has become that Israel is committing genocide against the Palestinian people. Having grown up in a Zionist home, lived the first half of my life in Israel, served in the I.D.F. as a soldier and officer and spent most of my career researching and writing on war crimes and the Holocaust, this was a painful conclusion to reach, and one that I resisted as long as I could. But I have been teaching classes on genocide for a quarter of a century. I can recognize one when I see one."
Or maybe this essay from Raz Segal, associate professor of Holocaust and Genocide Studies and endowed professor in the Study of Modern Genocide at Stockton University, called 'A Textbook Case of Genocide", written earlier during the 'conflict':
"Israel’s campaign to displace Gazans—and potentially expel them altogether into Egypt—is yet another chapter in the Nakba, in which an estimated 750,000 Palestinians were driven from their homes during the 1948 war that led to the creation of the State of Israel. But the assault on Gaza can also be understood in other terms: as a textbook case of genocide unfolding in front of our eyes....
Under international law, the crime of genocide is defined by “the intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such,” as noted in the December 1948 UN Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide. In its murderous attack on Gaza, Israel has loudly proclaimed this intent. Israeli Minister of Defense Yoav Gallant declared it in no uncertain terms on October 9th: “We are imposing a complete siege on Gaza. No electricity, no food, no water, no fuel. Everything is closed. We are fighting human animals, and we will act accordingly.” Leaders in the West reinforced this racist rhetoric by describing Hamas’s mass murder of Israeli civilians—a war crime under international law that rightly provoked horror and shock in Israel and around the world—as “an act of sheer evil,” in the words of US President Joe Biden, or as a move that reflected an “ancient evil,” in the terminology of President of the European Commission Ursula von der Leyen. This dehumanizing language is clearly calculated to justify the wide scale destruction of Palestinian lives; the assertion of “evil,” in its absolutism, elides distinctions between Hamas militants and Gazan civilians, and occludes the broader context of colonization and occupation."
Or this essay, "Yes It Is a Genocide", by Amos Goldberg, a Holocaust and genocide researcher at the Hebrew University:
"Yes, it is genocide. It is so difficult and painful to admit it, but despite all that, and despite all our efforts to think otherwise, after six months of brutal war we can no longer avoid this conclusion. Jewish history will henceforth be stained with the mark of Cain for the “most horrible of crimes,” which cannot be erased from its forehead. As such, this is the way it will be viewed in history’s judgment for generations to come."
Maybe you would be interested in the Israeli human rights organization B'Tselem, who wrote a detailed report on Israel's genocide earlier this year:
"An examination of Israel’s policy in the Gaza Strip and its horrific outcomes, together with statements by senior Israeli politicians and military commanders about the goals of the attack, leads to the unequivocal conclusion that Israel is taking coordinated, deliberate action to destroy Palestinian society in the Gaza Strip. In other words: Israel is committing genocide against the Palestinians in the Gaza Strip. "
..or maybe the president of self-described 'liberal Zionist' organization J Street, Jeremy Ben-Ami, who wrote this summer that "I have ... been persuaded rationally by legal and scholarly arguments that international courts will one day find that Israel has broken the international genocide convention,"
What more? Nah, go ahead and just rant and say 'no it isn't' and post more ad hominem, fact free comments as a response.
"So the nation accused of wanting to wipe out-in whole or in part - the Palestinian population of Gaza was willing to end the war in exchange for 20 people. And when the fighting stopped and the hostages came home, the jubilation in Israel was palpable." Wow, that is quite the" genocide."
I guess you are still sad that you had no response at all to the many Israeli scholars and Jewish originations I quoted above that have affirmed that Israel has clearly and obviously committed genocide. I can quote a number more if you like?
But hey, now there is a slight reprieve in the daily massacres by Israel...all is great now! So glad they were 'jubilant' in the country that has carried out the genocide! No harm done! Just like the much ballyhooed 'ceasefire' earlier this year...how did that go?
So this is what the 'end of the war' has looked like so far in Gaza - 'peacetime' has a very different meaning for the stateless, rightless people who live under Israel military regime in the Occupied Territories:
So far, during this 'ceasefire', 35 Palestinians were killed the day the 'ceasefire' was announced last Friday, and 72 were wounded. Since then, at least 23 more have been killed, with at least 122 more wounded, while 400 bodies so far have been recovered from the rubble. Israel is still severely restricting the aid that are entering the region, and the Rafah border with Egypt is still closed by Israel. Gaza is buried under 50,000 tons of rubble, which will take at least 15 years to clear. Virtually every building has been destroyed or heavily damaged. Israel is still holding the bodies of at least 700 Palestinian hostages who died in captivity, including children, including some who died well before October 2023.
Israel also still holds thousands of Palestinian hostages in captivity, including hundreds of children, and at least 19 doctors as hostages, including Dr. Hussam Abu Safiya, director of Gaza’s Kamal Adwan Hospital, along with dozens more nurses and health care workers. Not a single one of whom has been charged with anything, and many have been tortured while in captivity.
The IOF has seized nearly 60% of Gaza as a closed and fully depopulated military zone, including most of its agricultural land, pushing the entire surviving population onto an area the size of Brooklyn, where barely a building is standing.
Many of the bodies of Palestinian hostages returned to Gaza arrived with signs of gunshot wounds and their hands and legs cuffed, and some still had blindfolds on, while several of the bodies bore signs of field executions and others were found with tank tracks on them.
Because of Israel's genocide, the birth rate of Palestinians in Gaza has declined by 41 percent, and miscarriages have risen over 300%, while over 60 percent of pregnant and breastfeeding women are unable to produce milk due to malnutrition.
The Abu Shabab gang, who was responsible for looting much of the UN aid with the blessing of Netanyahu and the IOF, is now serving as a proxy for the IOF is launching attacks inside Gaza, including the torture and assassination of Gaza journalist Saleh Al-Jaafrawi.
The IOF, as it withdrew, launched an arson spree, setting fire to civilian infrastructure, including the destruction of an essential sanitation plant. As one Israeli soldier put it: "Every Arab house we entered had olive oil ... We poured the oil on the sofas, on anything flammable in the apartment, and then we ignited [it] or threw in a smoke grenade. This was a common practice,”
Most of the 2000 released Palestinian hostages, many of whom showed signs of torture and starvation, came 'home' to find their entire families massacred, their homes destroyed, and their entire society decimated by Israel's reign of terror.
As it did this past winter, a 'ceasefire' in Gaza means still-daily killings and maiming of Palestinians by the Israeli occupation forces. Meanwhile, 'peace' in the West Bank means over 1000 killed in the past two years, with thousands more abducted, thousands more driven from their homes by fanatic 'settlers'.
Maybe you can go troll someone else for a while. Your infantile sputtering is not just dumb but really boring.
"Gaza is buried under 50,000 tons of rubble." Correct that, Hamas terrorists are buried under 50,000 tons of rubble. Where they can stay for all eternity as far as I'm concerned. I don't weep for Hamas like you do.
Jason's ideas on genocide, particularly genocide in Gaza, are shared by objective scholars on genocide. A UN Commission of inquiry has also concluded that Israel has committed genocide in Gaza. What is your expertise?
The UN??? Do you think any Jew or Israeli gives a damn what the UN says? The most a to-Semitic anti-Israel body in the world. If Israel was engaged in genocide why are millions of Gazans still alive? Why are Israelis celebrating the cease fire? Don't be a fool.
Odd reply. The UN not only favored but enabled the establishment of the State of Israel. If you are this uninformed about that basic fact, why will anyone pay any attention to anything you say?
Funny thing about that Israeli "genocide." When the Nazis were committing a genocide, they lined up the Jews and marched the to the death camps. The IDF moved the Gazans *away* from where they were about to attack Hamas. That's a funny way of running a genocide. What a bunch of Einsteins here.
And IDF didn't move Gazans away, they gave them ultimatums to evacuate and eventually bombed and attacked the places where the Gazans moved to. Over 60.000 Palestinian bodies were indeed moved away, created by IDF, and moved by their Palestinian relatives.
'The IDF moved the Gazans *away* from where they were about to attack Hamas'...wow, I take back my comment above - this response from you is even more laughably dumb than your other responses here.
Yes, the thousands of unarmed, starving men, women and children that were executed at near point-blank range just this summer near 'aid' sites were being 'moved away'...so were the other tens of thousands of Palestinian journalists, doctors, aid workers, and civilians who were shot, bombed, tortured, raped and abducted by Israel in the past two years (not including the many thousands before that)..so were the 1000+ Palestinians killed in the West Bank....'moved' so far away from Gaza that they were in a region that had zero to do with Hamas.
I guess your brain 'has been sleeping' for a couple years, or more...or maybe it just atrophied and shriveled up from a diet of garbage.
Please see the list of 'those bunch of Einsteins' I listed above, in my earlier comment that you ignored...I know it's a lot for you to to read, just take it slowly, maybe in parts...
So interesting to me that in all your supposed heartfelt sympathy for the Gazans you never once mention Hamas' tactics of engaging in combat from schools, mosques, hospitals, UNWRA facilities... Need I go on? Or that Hamas leaders sit in the Ritz Carlton in Qatar with their billions in the banks deciding that ordinary Gazans should be sacrificed on the alter of the resistance. Hamas fires rockets into Israel from a hospital. Israel will fire back at the hospital. Usually after first dropping leaflets to evacuate. That is one helluva way to run a genicide: tell the people you're going to return fire before you do. Brilliant. https://www.instagram.com/reel/DPUISCtDKb4/?igsh=MTUwODF1Z3EydTJ0MA==
Amazing. You worry about damage to Jewry - and rightly so - but not a word about the genocide threatening to become modern day Holocaust. I apologise if you do, but then minimal humanity, solidarity and empathy requires saying it - loudly and clearly - for only that way this crime against humanity of biblical proportion may stop.
I can't shake the nagging feeling given the Trump, Kuschner, Witcoff triumvirate, that Gaza is merely another real estate venture with Bibi having cleared the land for a cut and they don't much care what happens to the occupants so long as they don't interfere with the project.
I firmly believe that Trump couldn't give a flying fig about Israel, Palestine, or the Middle East in general. He's just angling for a Nobel Peace Prize, and that's his only motivation. He also is probably hoping he can make a few bucks along the way
A Nobel Peace Prize and lucrative real estate deal. Its still cause for cognitive dissonance. “Trump peace plan”, an “ enemy within” and war on the American people have my head spinning. But if his bullying of Bibi has led to breaking, or at least weakening, American unwavering support of Israel no matter atrocities are committed, that will be a good thing.
What do you mean by a few bucks? Trump and his family are professional grifters and money hounds. They live and breathe each day for their next billion. No, they are beyond that; they're salivating for their first trillion. They are the most disgusting people on the planet.
He already was caught on video today having a conversation with the Indonesian PM, who mentioned "Eric" and T saying something like "we'll find another location, that one wasn't good."
This is what I think also, after all he did say what he wanted to do with the land...Once I heard Kushner was involved I immediately knew it was about money & real estate. Neither Bibi nor Donald care about "the human beings" ....
Trump said that Hamas had been given "approval for a period of time" to act as a temporary police force in Gaza. This was in response to reports of Hamas using violence against Palestinian rivals while attempting to establish itself as the security authority.
Details of the development:
A Reuters article quoted Trump's statement while he was en route to the Middle East.
Trump made the statement while discussing the security situation during the initial implementation of the ceasefire, noting that "a lot of bad things can happen" as Palestinians return to their destroyed homes.
I'm not sure that Hamas is any more honorable about keeping their word with respect to this plan, than Netanyahu or Trump is. They are bad actors all 'round.
I don't believe 47 negotiated anything, Kushner and Witcoff maybe. 47, with increasing cognitive decline, isn't capable of difficult negotiations. He didn't demand Netanyahu allow food and supplies into Gaza for the innocent Palestinian people which he certainly could have done on Jan. 20, 2025-- or at any time. He didn't demand Netanyahu stop bombing innocents in Gaza. Netanyahu bombed for all the months 47 was in office and didn't do anything until he decided to. If 47 is so "powerful" why didn't he stop the killing in Gaza long before now?
I am sure something nefarious and corrupt is going on behind the scenes here. Trump never does anything for the good of the people. There are always threats and a significant financial benefit to him. So far I have not seen any investigative reporting or even an opinion column about this.
Laura, he would have had that fate two years ago if he hadn't ignored copious US and other intelligence (and probably Israel's) warning him that Hamas was plotting some kind of invasion. Strange, isn't it, that the cameras at the border crossing weren't operational on October 7, 2023, and the Iron Dome was also not working. I heard that on several media outlets at the time, but not since then.
When you consider the thousands of peaceful protestors demonstrating every day for months because Bibi was tampering with Israel's Supreme Court and packing it with ultra conservative justices, Bibi needed a war to distract from his political problems. So, let's see - a megalomaniac tyrant in Israel fanning the flames of "religion", and DJT's suddenly seeing the light of the religious ultra-right wing, regardless of his apparent lack of obvious religion in the past, and both seeing a path to their future ambitions by packing their Supreme Courts and embracing extremely conservative philosophy - hmmm, I see brothers from different mothers, but Bibi is the puppet master in Israel and Donald is the puppet who is controlled by our right-wing conservatives. I wish both of them long prison terms.
Jay Jay Eh, I can't say that I agree with you. True, he has helped with the cease fire and release of Israeli hostages, but I'd guess that he has some self-serving motivation involved. In order for further good to come from this admittedly good-so-far result, there will be much more hard work to sustain it. It's not over yet, and rebuilding Gaza, sustaining peace, and keeping his foot out of his mouth are well beyond his remaining intellect and diplomatic skills. Only time will tell whether it can all be held together and peace can be maintained. As many here have already commented, the presence of Jared (and why Ivanka?) and Witkoff cast a financial shadow and self-dealing pall over future negotiations. I smell a deal between Donald and Bibi for some kind of remuneration for not-so-bright or diplomatic DJT.
Patricia, although there has been no recent discussion of this gem, the fact that Jared tagged along with The Don did reawaken my suspicion in this direction. We all know that Trump isn't working to create a peaceful solution because of his humanitarian nature. There's a nefarious reason hidden for now.
Time will tell, but the fact that other world leaders, including Arabs & Tony Blair are involved … increase the hope.
Plus Hamas has agreed to lay down their weapons TO the next Palestinian administration, gives further hope. It is in the best interests of everyone ELSE to see peace in the region.
Jay Jay Eh, I agree that this is positive and can only hope that the process moves ahead without hinderance from our resident moron. However, he has caused maximum mayhem with everything he touches.
Yes, Gwen, beginning with Trump's "advisors" Leonard Leo and the Project 2025 crowd. He's their useful idiot, and there are many more who will profit from Bibi's evil.
Difficult for someone of Jewish origin to do, perhaps?
I think Jen has made a reasonable effort here, at presenting a balanced picture. It perhaps lacks some specifics & isn’t perfectly tailored to suit all, but she’s a human being as well as a journalist.
*I count this cup more full than empty, and will not carry on endlessly over every detail & nuance she may have missed … not wanting the Perfect to become the Enemy of the Good.
Respectfully, I don't agree. I listed several Israeli and Jewish organizations and scholars that have given strong condemnations of Israel's genocide in this thread, who have all outlined their arguments clearly. So many of the loudest critics of Israel's policies are Jewish, both inside and outside of Israel. That includes everyone from scholars and journalists to Israeli citizens that have refused to fight in the IDF, to Israeli human rights organizations, to US-based groups like Jewish Voices for Peace and IfNotNow.
This piece is quite clearly lopsided toward concern for the Israeli people and state, with only a few brief mentions of the people of Gaza. The incredible level of suffering and devastation they have endured as a result of Israel's carnage is terribly understated here. The way she makes an equivalence between the 'suffering' of Israeli solders to the people they have been killing for two years is appalling.
This sort of just of glossing over the intensity and pervasiveness of the catastrophe in Gaza is pretty common in US media. I have no doubt that this has been a major contributing factor to the continuing support for Israel's war crimes by the US.
It matters, a lot, and I don't buy that anyone's background gives them any reason to ignore a genocide not only happening in front of our eyes, but happening with our tax dollars and our country's unwavering political, financial and cultural support.
This isn't to say that Rubin and others at The Contrarian aren't doing good work in other aspects...but that doesn't give her or this outlet a pass, IMO...in fact, it makes her weak response to this even more glaring.
PS- as far as this 'ceasefire' is going:
Earlier today, Israeli military forces in Gaza City killed at least five Palestinians, despite the ceasefire agreement that took effect last Friday. Separately, at least three children were injured Monday by what appeared to be unexploded Israeli ordnance dropped near Al-Shifa Hospital.
Israel is now refusing a allow number of the agreed-upon aid trucks into Gaza, claiming they will not allow more until all the Israeli hostage bodies have been recovered, even as people there continue to starve....meanwhile, at least 19 doctors, including Dr. Hussam Abu Safiya, director of Gaza’s Kamal Adwan Hospital, are still being held as hostages by Israel, along with many hundreds more Palestinian hostages who are being held without charges. Israel has also not released at least 700 bodies of Palestinians who died in Israeli captivity, including several children.
You won't find a word about any of this in The Contrarian.
I pretty well agree with the substance of what you say - you’re preaching to the choir here, Re: Palestinian injustices - but feel that Jen was putting forth HER best effort ‘at this point in time’. Just not sure that these ongoing, somewhat harsh & critical responses will encourage her to delve more deeply on the topic in the future — it doesn’t seem her effort this time around was very well received, and we don’t know what personal difficulties she may have to overcome to get as far as she did.
Also, Jen does not bear the sole responsibility for covering ALL the territory of this difficult & far-ranging subject. Not every news source covers every topic completely, many borrow from each other to flesh out their stories & sometimes simply leave room for others to delve into certain aspects more deeply than they themselves are willing, or have the time or resources to do.
In appreciation for her attempts to broach the subject at all (considering previous seeming reluctance), and in acknowledgement of her demonstrated desire for justice & accountability in numerous other matters of concern to us all — I was willing to give her space to approach this in her way & time. I trusted that she was giving HER best under HER circumstances … of which we have incomplete knowledge & understanding … and some people don’t seem to care, but she is human, you know.
And I felt that your level of ongoing critique was likely to be counterproductive of a) achieving more understanding of the topic at hand b) encouraging Jen to brave a deeper delve in the future.
Anyone truly desiring that deeper delve cd simply go to another source after expressing some critiques & perhaps suggestions … but you began to seem like a dog with a bone!
In short, the time & degree that you pursued the matter seemed unproductive, unnecessary, and began to look almost personal.
Now we’re bickering more about her writing than the Palestinians.
It begins to feel almost as if she were being held responsible for their plight and all coverage of it. I have RARELY, if ever, seen a journalist’s article picked at in such an ongoing manner, and I basically feel it’s ‘over the top’.
Well, I don't really agree with any of that, sorry.
For one thing, I very much doubt that Rubin, with over half a million subscribers to a newsletter that publishes dozens of pieces daily, reads many, if any at all, of these comments.
Some readers here might not get that, but the comments here are for other readers. Rubin doesn't care what I think, and I don't expect her to.
Besides that, Rubin is a seasoned, tough journalists and commentator, who has been in the public eye for 20 years. The comments to her pieces in the Post, with its much bigger and broader audience (then anyway), were much more varied and often much more critical than the comments here. The audience at The Contrarian is largely made up of big fans of Rubin that followed here here from the Post (a move that I applauded, and said so), and it shows in the responses. So many are just annoyingly sycophantic, content-free cheerleading that do nothing to add to any discussion. (side note: I don't only comment on Rubin's pieces..unlike so many other readers here, I read many other writers at The Contrarian, and listen to the interviews, and often I will comment on articles that only a tiny handful of others have responded to)
And also, Rubin gives out plenty of harsh criticism herself ,as she should...this goes back to her days as a hard-right opinion writer, who lambasted Obama constantly, calling him and Michelle 'the Obandi' and supporting policies she has now largely turned against.
Your whole take that she is 'putting forth her best effort' and that that we should 'encourage her to delve more deeply ' completely missed the point. She's not a school kid on a learning curve.
Rubin is very knowledgeable about a wide range of political topics, including this one. The point is not that 'delve deeply', she very clearly reporting only aspects she is concerned with, and by that is giving a highly skewed version of events in this case.
This has been consistent in her reporting and in The Contrarian's coverage in general concerning Israel and the Occupied Territories (a term which they notably never use btw). For the first six months of this outlet, they barely said a single word about Gaza or the West Bank at all. Then, when pictures of starving Palestinians stated surfacing in mainstream media, there were a number of pieces over a few weeks. Same as now, those pieces entirely avoided so many aspects of Israel's crimes, while focusing on 'the children' and passive language to describe 'people that were starving'. I noted then that Norm Eisen , over several 'Coffee' conversations with Rubin, literally never even said the word 'Palestinian'. His comments, even more so than Rubin's, were entirely about the impact to Israelis, as if the massive devastation created by Israel in Gaza and the West Bank was not even worthy of mention.
Then, Gaza was almost entirely dropped from The Contrarian, again, until recently, with a number of discussion about the so-called 'ceasefire' which have followed that same tack. This is not just about 'time' or 'resources', this is clearly an intentional promotion of a point of view, which is consistent with Rubin's long support of Israel's policies and her long history of criticizing Palestinians and their supporters, which has changed over time, but only to a degree.
This article is called 'What now for Israel and Gaza?', but it is almost entirely only about the impacts to Israel, with are literally nothing when compared to the impacts to Gaza, which are beyond devastating. When Rubin writes something as awful as 'Israelis have been traumatized (as have Gazans)', that deserves to be pointed out, as many others have here. Rubin obviously doesn't write this because she simply doesn't know or have the ability to know what is going on. Your kid-glove take on Rubin is really a bit patronizing IMO. You talk of here like she some fragile wallflower who needs a pep talk, not as a tough, professional political pundit who has been in the ring for decades.
Rubin isn't an amateur that needs to be 'encouraged' or helped. She and her team are perfectly capable, knowledgeable, and professional. As I said, these comments are for readers here, and my comments are also often harshly criticized..sometimes with substance, more often with snips like 'get your own Substack' or 'if you don't like it, go somewhere else'.
Plus, nearly every single comment I have made regarding this topic gets angry responses from hard line supporters of Israel's actions, like the idiot above who said I had a 'child's understanding of genocide' then went on to back this nonsense with more bullshit, even after I carefully listed a number of Israeli scholars who have explained why this is true... but hey, that's part of being in a public forum. And, more than that, this to me just illustrates why I think this point of view needs to be mentioned here, since many of Rubin's leaders are 'liberals' who also have no problem with genocide and apartheid, or deny that they exist entirely. Again, the comments are more for readers here than the actual writers.
I think it's you that is making this 'personal' ...you have mentioned Rubin in personal terms several times. I am not concerned about her personal life. What I am concerned with is that the US is actively supporting one of the worst human atrocities this century, and The Contrarian's coverage, which consistently puts Israeli's 'suffering' at the same level, or more often at a level with much more focus and discussion, than the actual victims of Israel's genocide, apartheid and intense violence, is one component on that ongoing problem. That take alone serve to trivialize and sideline the massive war crimes Israel continues to commit.
This isn't just some policy issue or disagreement on tactics. This is about genocide, a collection of the worst war crimes possible , inflicted on millions of people.
"Now we’re bickering more about her writing than the Palestinians.' is entirely your take. I always, every time go out of my way to point out actual facts that are not mentioned here, with facts and figures as well as quotes and comments from scholars, activists and leaders that add to the discussion. I also think I read the pieces here and listen to the interviews more carefully, and with a deeper level of critical thinking, that many other readers, who only want to be told what they already believe.
The Contrarian itself invites 'lively debate'. It seems to be at this point, after multiple comments to me about my own responses, that you are the 'dog with a bone' that is making this 'almost personal'. My comments here are always reasoned and I always back them up with quotes from the pieces.
What I think is 'over the top' and the endless slavish praise filled comments I see here...talk about 'preaching to the choir'...saying 'nothing more substantive than you go Jen', which so many commenters do over and over here, is the opposite of 'lively debate'; or even 'critical thinking'...and the flaws in The Contrarian's coverage of Israel and the Occupied Territories are glaring. This outlet claims to be 'unflinching, unapologetic, and unwavering in its commitment to truth-telling'..I am holding them to that standard. I would hope others would do that too.
Well, it is quite possible that you are correct on all or at least most counts here, and it is I who is the amateur here.
However, altho I May have been overly considerate in ‘giving her a break’ due to her potentially having an emotional, cultural & social ‘blind side’ in this issue, I don’t feel I have been slavish in praise for her, I’m generally not a gushy sort.
I likely bend towards treating her as I wd like to be treated, and I am obviously not the ‘hard-nosed professional’. I also appreciate the emotional suffering on both sides of this conflict, and that is truly an instance where ‘comparisons are odious’ - genuine grief deserve universal respect.
As far as overall suffering, however, clearly the Palestinians are by FAR the most unfairly & *collectively punished, traumatized and dispossessed. I think of them as I go about my day — when eating a small cup of applesauce I imagine it going instead to a little child — one feels so impotent & often very angry.
Due to that anger over this injustice I have had to take a break from the Gaza news, lest it become toxic and overwhelming, but it’s always there to some degree, in the news or my thoughts.
The only concrete thing I have done is sponsor a girl in Lebanon, through World Vision, with occasional written exchanges with her parents, esp her mother, which I think she found encouraging.
Anyway, I do appreciate your depth of concern and knowledge, and I don’t want to disparage that. I likely see things more through a personal, emotional perspective than some.
I just hope this Trump truce thing holds long enough to get to the 2nd phase where an interim coalition party overseeing things gets a firm hold on the situation — most people are afraid to place their hopes too high there.
Did you see the news about a week ago where a small group of Israelis (mostly women I believe) was encouraging everyone to acknowledge the 🔻genocide, and even *welcomed their Israeli *pariah status as just and even necessary? Lack of press freedom in Israel doesn’t help here at all, plus the ‘dampening effect’ of the Trump regime on free speech virtually anywhere … King of the World, he has crowned himself.
I look forward to the lessened power of Trump, Netanyahoo, AIPAC et al, but feel that genuine solutions will only come with the ‘new system of things’ as foretold in the Bible. 🕊️🌿
Mankind has kept relapsing in it’s self-governing for so long — to think that there is public discussion of Naziism in the ‘land of the free, home of the brave’ exemplar, U.S.A. is mind boggling, no? And within such a short period of time post 2 WWs.
— “It was the best of times, it was the worst of times, it was the age of wisdom, it was the age of foolishness, it was the epoch of belief, it was the epoch of incredulity, it was the season of Light, it was the season of Darkness, it was the spring of hope, it was the winter of despair …, we had nothing before us, we were all going direct to Heaven, we were all going direct the other way …” Dickens, Tale of Two Cities comes to mind.
Best Wishes in your pursuit of truth and Justice, Jason.
Thank you for taking the time to respectfully engage in debate here.
Right, no article in The Contrarian has mentioned this, except for every single article the Contrarian has ever written about Israel and the Occupied Territories. Very loud, talkative 'crickets'.
Note: Israel, not Hamas, is the entity that has committed genocide, that has created more child amputees per capita that anywhere in the world, that has assassinated hundreds of journalists, doctors, aid workers, along with a still unknown number of civilians... Israel dropped the equivalent of several Hiroshima-sized atomic bombs on Gaza, not Hamas..Israel has been killing Palestinians in Gaza since decades before Hamas existed.
...and Israel has killed over 1000 Palestinians in the West Bank in the past two years alone, and has kidnapped thousands more, while stealing land and homes every single days for years.... which has zero to do with Hamas.
Thank you for your wise words. However, I am very uneasy that this was brokered by Jared Kushner and those monied managers with real estate investments on their mind. I am deeply suspicious that any Gazan will be involved in the reconstruction of their homeland when, in fact, the construction of this potential Riviera has, no doubt, already been planned. I am not sure this has been as much of a political resolution that it was a real estate business deal.
As the daughter of a mother who survived Auschwitz and three slave-labor camps, I came to the conclusion that suffering changes only those whose souls can rise over grievances. Alas, not many are changed; they easily revert to hatred and bigotry and a thirst for revenge. I can only hope that people of conscience will prevail....
Yes! And those of us who do not carry the burden of victimhood are called as human beings to do what we can in real time, real ways, to help heal those broken by generational trauma. There is no other way. Systematic, research-based therapeutic healing for as many as we can. We, who are able, are called to heal what is broken, when all is said and done.
Trump is delusional if he thinks this is a peace deal. It’s a ceasefire agreement. “It will be a golden age for the Middle East “. So much anger and resentment on both sides it will be extraordinarily difficult for this to be maintained. I’m glad the hostages are home but saddened for those who have lost their loved ones.
Rubin seems incapable of understanding that Palestinian lives are just as important as Israeli lives, and that the suffering of Israeli citizens does not remotely compare to the devastation wrought on the people in Gaza (and the West Bank) by Israel.
Even in the first sentence, she mentions the ' remaining 20 live Israeli hostages ' without a word about the thousands pf Palestinian hostages that are now being released. She does not mention that people in the West Bank have been warned that if they celebrated the releases, they would be arrested. She mentions the effect of the 'interminable war with unimaginable horrors' on the soldiers who committed those horrors, while she only mentions the 'the grief of thousands of Gazans whose loved ones were killed or maimed', using the passive tense to avoid saying who is responsible for the killing and maiming. She puts the suffering of Israeli soldiers on equal footing (actually, higher footing) than the suffering of the people in Gaza, as if these two things are comparable by any stretch of the imagination.
She later writes 'Finally, Israelis have been traumatized (as have Gazans)' as if the suffering of people in Gaza is just an afterthought, a side note to those that have truly suffered: the Israeli people. The entire article is heavily focused on Israel, and the impacts to Israeli politics.
As has been the case in every Contrarian article recently, there is not a single word about accountability for the Israeli government and military for committing what a constantly growing number of human rights organizations and scholars in the world has affirmed is genocide, committed by Israel on the Palestinian people. Everyone from the UN to the president of J Street has affirmed this; the Contrarian refuses to say it.
Until there is full accountability for the leaders of in Israel's government and military for its horrendous crimes, there is no justice, and there will be no 'peace'. The Contrarian's coverage of the Occupied Territories continues to be shamefulness conditions and limited, made even more striking by its otherwise solid coverage of domestic politics.
'In the immediate aftermath of Donald Trump’s announcement on Thursday that both Hamas and Israel had signed off on an agreement to stop the fighting, the Israeli military launched an arson spree, setting fire to civilian infrastructure, including the destruction of an essential sanitation plant in Gaza City. ...
The destruction of Palestinian structures following the departure of soldiers who had used them as temporary bases has been a hallmark of Israel’s approach to Gaza for two years. In July, Israeli reporter Yuval Abraham collected testimonies from soldiers describing a myriad of arson methods. “Every Arab house we entered had olive oil [...] We poured the oil on the sofas, on anything flammable in the apartment, and then we ignited [it] or threw in a smoke grenade. This was a common practice,” one of them described.
The agreement came after months of a concerted effort to render Gaza uninhabitable by destroying residences and civilian infrastructure, culminating in the ground invasion of Gaza City and the leveling of several high rises in Gaza City. In September, Israeli government minister Gila Gamliel told Channel 7 News, “We have already completely annihilated 75% of the entire [Gaza] Strip. There remains 25%, which, as you know, it too...we are now taking over [the city of] Gaza—there will be nothing left there that would really [have] the potential to be habitable.” '
Truly sickening — but apparently a common war tactic — just in this case especially unnecessary and *amoral … but they were ‘just following orders’ … to be inhumane.
I think The Contrarian has played their hand wisely here, considering their Jewish roots/ association … ‘the facts, M’am - just the facts’! … and *as they happen*, not getting ahead of themselves or the actions on the ground.
Yes, they use the passive voice etc when discussing Palestinian lives lost, but if a gang thundered into MY village/country & did what Hamas did, I’m sure that I wd Harbour great animosity toward them, even overcoming my usual bent towards humanitarianism & Christianity etc.
A great deal of TIME will be needed to overcome these natural human tendencies.
* There ARE Jewish groups & individuals who bother to inform themselves further than their govt allows in their 🔹sanitized version of the news — and they have acted upon it, much to their credit, even inviting the worldwide ‘rebuke’ brought upon them & fellow Israelis. Credit where credit is due. (Even God called Israelis a ‘stiff-necked people’ didn’t he? Acts 7:51-52 + others).
** I had to quit the amount of Gaza-Israeli news I was reading because it became too upsetting & frustrating for me - impotently spinning my wheels, altho as you may recall I did join you there to some degree. While on WaPo I played the keyboard warrior for almost a year … to what avail I don’t know, but it was my stand & I kept myself informed.
Different strokes for different blokes, I have faith that those *with consciences* are doing their best … and I don’t mind better informing them from time to time PRN.
I believe you come from a place of caring & are incensed that others are not as inclusive with their caring. But *some of the people you are angry with in this regard have obstacles to overcome that it might be helpful for you to also consider.
It's not a matter of 'different strokes'..there is simply no equivalency whatsoever between the status of Israel and that of Gaza (or the West Bank for that matter).
You are correct that there are 'Jewish groups and individuals' that have condemned Israel's actions -specifically, that have affirmed what is well accepted by now - that Israel has committed genocide is Gaza (which continues).
There is almost no mention of these individuals or groups in The Contrarian however.
The United Nations Independent International Commission of Inquiry on the Occupied Palestinian Territory just released an exhaustive report detailing how Israel has committed genocide, as defined by international law. These findings are consistent with the conclusions of Israeli human rights org B'TSelem, the president of J Street, The International Association of Genocide Scholars, and several Israeli historians and genocide scholars, among many, many other countries, organizations and individuals.
I have not seen any single mention of the word 'genocide ' in an article in The Contrarian.
It is not a matter of semantics, or even of opinion. It is an objective interpretation of international law, which the Contrarian has very conspicuously failed to address or even acknowledge.
And, as I keep saying because it is so lacking here, Israel's massive escalation of violence in the West Bank has nothing to do with Hamas..Neither does it also-massive escalation of attacks on many of its neighboring countries.
Instead, this article almost entirely focuses on the 'suffering' of the country that has inflicted genocide and apartheid and almost unimaginable levels of horror over these past years, let alone before that.
Thank you Jason. While Jen's article is thoughtful in places, I almost stopped after the first paragraph with the detailed numbers and situations for Israel described while lumping of all that Gazan's have gone through into a single sentence of "thousands" when it's actually tens of thousands: 70,000 is the estimate, with a majority of those being women and children. I did push to read on so that I didn't make an uneducated comment, and then there was the 'Finally, Israelis have been traumatized (as have Gazans)' - with Gazan's being relegated to little more than a parenthetical afterthought. I feel sick, and I am almost ready to quit my subscription to The Contrarian over this.
I was disgusted even more after re-reading this article, for those same reasons...the line you mention ' 'Finally, Israelis have been traumatized (as have Gazans)' ' was just gobsmackingly awful...right up there with her lamentations about the suffering of ...the soldiers who have inflicted the massacres and devastation.
As I understand it, 67,000 or so (as of today) is the number actually confirmed dead. That number is likely twice that much, or more, as bodies are recovered from the rubble, and right now people are still dying from disease, malnutrition and other impacts directly caused by Israel's genocide.
And, I feel you, I am about ready to quit my subscription too..although Rubin and others here do publish good commentary, their coverage of Israel and the Occupied Territories has been consistently poor.
I do think actual 'contrarian' voices here are important too though.
Jason I hope you won't quit The Contrarian. It and we NEED your voice. And I'm sure you know that there are no pure, clean hands in this imperfect world of imperfect persons. Not The Contrarian, not you, not me.
I appreciate a lot of what The Contrarian does. As I have said (I think you understand this) - my reasons for commenting here are because of that fact.
And you are correct of course. This particular thing is just so incredibly egregious and outrageous, and our own country has so much culpability here (bipartisan too), I will continue to speak out on it.
I always appreciate your replies Donna! Keep em coming!
The first person says "the food there is terrible"
and the second responds with "Yes, and the portions are so small"
If you don't like Jen's comments that much, why do you keep following her. Do you enjoy getting riled up? There are a lot of (right wing) columnists with whom I disagree and despise. I came to realize that reading them only raises my blood pressure, so I stopped.
In this case I think Jason might be interested in consciousness-raising (as we used to call is) as well as commenting, Ivan. Which I think is very important. Jen seems to be moving. But The Contrarian still seems in thrall to Israel's interests more than in the larger humankind issues.
I guess I err in thinking my point is obvious, and I have said it many times. The entire reason I comment here and I don't waste time commenting in The Free Press or something is because Rubin, Eisen and others here do good work in most other topics. This is an audience I believe is reachable, but I also believe is sorely lacking on this particular issue, and this has been demonstrated over and over.
I really find the responses like the one above tiresome. As I've said before, do Rubin's subscribers not see the irony of mocking or dismissing someone for posting a contrary point of view, in an outlet called 'The Contrarian'?
The Contrarian's own 'About page says they are " unflinching, unapologetic, and unwavering in its commitment to truth-telling. " and its "contributors may not agree on all issues (and, in fact, enjoy lively debate)"....apparently, many of its readers do not want 'lively debate', they want to their own beliefs affirmed.
I'm hoping, Jason, you'll comment on the number of deaths of Gazans. The MSM reports 65,000. I scratched my head when I read that. Ralph Nader, whose newsletter often addresses Palestinian issues, puts the number at about 600,000 and cites sources to back this up.
I have commented on that ghastly number many times. Maybe I'll mention above again. Honestly, I get discouraged in these threads.
Here are some figures assembled by Zeteo recently:
67,000 confirmed killed (and yes, that number is likely far higher. One Lancet study estimates 186,000 direct and indirect deaths, which of course are still happening due to starvation, disease, injuries......we may never really know the total). Confirmed just means they have been identified..No serious observer thinks that number will not raise by tens of thousands more, at a minimum, as the rubble is cleared.
92% of all homes destroyed in Gaza
790 attacks on doctors and health care facilities
At least 270 journalists assassinated
Virtually the entire surviving population is food insecure
Sorry that I mssed your earlier comment on the number of deaths, etc. Raplh Nader cites the Lancelot but still offers a much higher total, and suggests that they agree that the total is much higher. And those still alive are food-insecure, most likely homeless and without medical care. Never mind things like education for their children. Netanyahu's war was a holocaust and should be recognized as that.
I am a paid subscriber to The Contrarian and I find Norm and Jen smart, focused, and relevant every day. However, I posted today my response to her comment seeming to equate or even downplay the destruction of Gaza and the murder of such an incredible number of women, children doctors, aid workers, and men - probably including some nasty Hamas soldiers.It's okay to disagree with someone on an important issue and still respect their overall stance as defender of democracy. Why should I drop my subscription because I don't see eye to eye with Jen Rubin on this? Sounds like a "purity test," and I think those aren't helpful.
I don't see it as a 'purity test', more as, do I want to support this?
I am also a subscriber and honestly do not think I will unsubscribe at this time. But this issue, for me, is much larger than a simple matter of opinion.
The genocide committed by Israel could never have happened without strong, bipartisan support form the US, which includes those pundits and journalists that justify that support and downplay its effects. I have noted in other threads that the lack of condemnation of the massive range of appalling acts by Israel makes me question one's ' overall stance as defender of democracy'.
This is beyond a particular policy or law...this is so horrendous, I feel everyone should be speaking out against it, loudly and clearly. It's a matter of basic morality and humanity.
Or, as Ta-Nehisi Coates recently put it, “We are at a moment right now where people are asking themselves why can’t the Democratic Party defend this assault on democracy . . . and I would submit to you that if you can’t draw the line at genocide, you probably can’t draw the line at democracy.”
"The Contrarian's coverage of the Occupied Territories continues to be shamefulness conditions and limited, made even more striking by its otherwise solid coverage of domestic politics."
Also, unlike you I guess,I have nuanced opinions of journalists and their work, which is rarely all of nothing. I don't comment to cheerlead , like so many do here.
Also, as is made clear in these comments, The Contrarian's readers are the ones who needs the reminders and the counterpoint regarding Israel and the Occupied Territories (you know, the meaning of the word 'contrarian'). American 'liberals' who have supported Israel's apartheid and war crimes, since long before October 2023, are a huge reason why the US continues its support for these crimes. A large portion of the Democratic Party is in that boat ...which is rarely if ever mentioned in Rubin's pieces.
You tacked more to the middle than I ever thought you would. I respect your opinion and your process for getting there. My sister, 6 nieces and nephews, and 10 great nieces and nephews live in Israel.
Aside from what Jen mentioned, Netanyahu's right-wing extremist coalition members, Smotrich and Ben Gvir, often threatened to quit if he didn't do their bidding, thus probably prolonging the war, it is also true that the worldwide support for Hamas on college campuses and elsewhere strengthened the Hamas bargaining position, which also prolonged the war.
You are so wrong. The protests on US college campuses were not for Hamas, they were for what was being done to the GAZA POPULATION by Israeli "defense" forces.
Turns out MAGA fascists are not the only ones dealing in alternate facts. Please link us to a source where it says Hamas "explicitly" thanked US college protesters. spend a lot of time getting news from all kinds of different sources, and I have NOT seen this accusation cited anywhere.
Me thinks, you are a 100% supporter of Natanyahoo and Israel, no matter how much genocide they commit.
From that link: [Khaled Mashaal, the the head of Hamas’ political wing, said in 2024, in remarks] posted on the Facebook page of the Global Coalition for Quds and Palestine [translated from Arabic]: "“We thank the Great Student Flood, which emerged from the American, European and Western universities, and has reached all the countries of our nation. We are grateful for the spirit that we have witnessed in our nation, and in humanity as a whole. We are grateful to the free people of the world,” said Mashaal."
How do you know I ignored your links last time. Perhaps they were not worth responding to, like these here in actuality.
Your sources state that Hamas is thanking the US college protestors for their protests and/or "gaza captor told hostages that hamas collaborates with US campus protesters."
That still does not mean that the US college campus protests where FOR hamas. It still means they were AGAINST the genocide perpetuated by Israel against the citizens of Gaza. Israel actively killed emergency helpers. doctors, destroyed hospitals, starved the Gaza population.
Actually, Israel has done more to drum up support for hamas than any US college campus population ever could.
Another question: why are so very many young members of the Israeli "defense" forces committing suicide?
And as she hints, Trump's and Wtikoff's Qatari real-estate deals gave them a bargaining chip with Qatar. That's in addition to the jet. And Qatar will have an airforce base in Idaho. So this is likely about far more than what's on the surface.
this is why the middle east is such a problem, no one wants to give an inch. this is a perfect time for all of the tribes over there to at least make an attempt to fix their 3000 year old bull shit...
Some with good memories have noticed this peace deal is very similar to phase 2 in what Biden proposed more than a year ago. It was stymied by Netanyahu. Trump picked it up when Netanyahu's
and Israel's position and image on the world stage had drastically declined.
I guess it's because Uncle Joe didn't have the guts to muscle Bibi around, whereas Don the Con has been muscling people around his whole life. That's his general way of doing business.
In very general terms, I agree with your assessment. Where I differ with you is the sense that you imphasize the impact of the war on the civilian residents and soldiers of Israel, but the devastating effects of the war on the residents of Gaza are almost an after-thought and strongly linked to an association with the actions of Hamas. You seem to tend to view the situation as if prior to Oct 2023, all was reasonably quiet and calm. When in fact it was proceed by a decade of Isreal's illegal expansion and government sponsored atrocities committed against a civilian population while at the same time Israel participated in the funding of Hamas throug 3rd parties. I wait for you to advocate for the civilian population of Gaza with the same fervor you extend to the civilians in Israel.
".... while at the same time Israel participated in the funding of Hamas through 3rd parties". I have read this a few times, also with Netanyahu in lieu of Israel funding Hamas. If true, it would add quite another dimension of Bibi's evilness.
It's just crazy that Trump and his regime are all in on these countries like Israel and Iran, Iraq and Qatar and all these crazy places. However, they start war within their own country. They started the war in America against anybody that doesn't say they're a nationalist Christian or maga Republican. FDJT
Now more attention will be paid to Israel's reign of terror in the West Bank, and hopefully get some measure of control back from the Netanyahu government.
What makes you think that? There is not a word about the West Bank in this 'agreement' (or in practically any coverage of any of this in US media, including The Contrarian).
There is no accountability for Netanyahu or his murderous allies ever mentioned.
It is very good that the Palestinian people are getting some reprieve from Israel's genocidal carnage, but there is little reason to believe there will be any meaningful change in Israel's policies of apartheid and ethnic cleansing at this point..
Yes, now that world leaders have Trump * somewhat * on board, Netanyahoo’s (sic) wings will be clipped & he may be feeling a little more inhibited in his killing & Middle East expansionist/domination sprees.
He will also need to start thinking about his 🔻re-election campaign &🔻COURT appearances.
— I’m hoping these considerations & the inevitable 🔻Oct. 7 INVESTIGATIONS Re: his role in defensive failures etc. will consume his attn more than + land grabs.
A very astute analysis and summary.
I'll go out on a limb and say that in the big picture, in terms of the damage he has done to Jewry the world over, Netanyahu is the worst thing to happen since the end of the Second World War.
Yes, Ivan, and Donald Trump is the worst thing that has happened to the USA in my lifetime - I'm almost 83 years old. The corrupt, power-hungry combination of Bibi and The Don have taken a toll on both countries.
And it’s our job to keep the truth alive. Netanyahu every day puts Jews in increasing danger.
Jews? Not only Jews, but also Palestinians.
Of course, but in the context of the question I believe making a single point is valid without having to explain the obvious.
You dont think mentioning the Palestinians is not "explaining the obvious" yet it's necessary to mention Jews? Oh, I see.
I made a statement that Netanyahu is the worst thing to happen to Jews and you literally hijacked the topic to include Palestinians to which I replied “duh” (as in of course he is but that’s not the topic of discussion). My statement had nothing to do with the Palestinian issue. So, please tell me where you’re coming from since you seem to like hijacking a topic. And what do you mean by “Oh I see?”
Thank you Nancy. And the news media is giving Trump credit for "solving" the problem. Where the heck did rationality go?
Thank you Contrarians for a more balanced, clear look at what has and is happening.
Dr. Wagner, I've been terribly disappointed in the press coverage of anything concerning Trump. Our Atlanta newspaper, The Atlanta Journal Constitution, has been noticeably more balanced and willing to criticize the Right and Trump, especially since they announced that they would discontinue their print version at the end of this year. It occurs to me that their fear of a lawsuit has diminished, and even on their opinion page, the reader comments are definitely more skewed to the left. This is notable, since Atlanta is still influenced by conservatives, and our State government is majority Republican. Like most universities (but not Princeton) that have bent the knee to these despots the terror of being sued for billions, most public institutions are cowed by threats that will cost them money. The Washington Post, among others, has gone to the dark side.
He will go down in Jewish History as a tyrant.
I'd be happy if he just went down! ;)
Worse: a genocidal tyrant and war criminal.
Ah yes,. so very 'astute'.
Like this line: 'Israelis have been traumatized (as have Gazans)' ...equating the suffering of Israel, the country that has committed genocide in Gaza, with those people who have been the victims of that genocide, who have had their entire society reduced to rubble, who are still dying right now....yes, very 'astute'.
Yes, 'very astute' to mention the impact of the 'interminable war with unimaginable horrors' ... on those soldiers who inflected those horrors,. while quickly only mentioning the 'grief' of the actual victims, passively noting their 'loved ones were killed or maimed' by some unnamed source....who killed them? Who knows? Who cares? That is not part of the 'astute analysis'.
(Oh, I apologize for not worshiping every word Rubin writes. I know the role of a 'contrarian' reader is to agree with everything written here).
You have an infant's understanding of the concept of "genocide."
Well, you win the dumbest comment I have read in this thread so far.
Since you made it clear below that you only care abut the opinion of 'any Jew or Israeli', let's list a few that have affirmed what is obvious to anyone with a functioning brain:
Note - genocide has a legal definition. It isn't based on your feelings, and it does not mean killing every single last member of a given group. I am not surprised that you don't know this obvious fact, or care.
But hey, don't listen to me:
Maybe start with Israeli historian and genocide scholar Omer Bartov, who wrote this in the NY Times this summer:
"My inescapable conclusion has become that Israel is committing genocide against the Palestinian people. Having grown up in a Zionist home, lived the first half of my life in Israel, served in the I.D.F. as a soldier and officer and spent most of my career researching and writing on war crimes and the Holocaust, this was a painful conclusion to reach, and one that I resisted as long as I could. But I have been teaching classes on genocide for a quarter of a century. I can recognize one when I see one."
Or maybe this essay from Raz Segal, associate professor of Holocaust and Genocide Studies and endowed professor in the Study of Modern Genocide at Stockton University, called 'A Textbook Case of Genocide", written earlier during the 'conflict':
"Israel’s campaign to displace Gazans—and potentially expel them altogether into Egypt—is yet another chapter in the Nakba, in which an estimated 750,000 Palestinians were driven from their homes during the 1948 war that led to the creation of the State of Israel. But the assault on Gaza can also be understood in other terms: as a textbook case of genocide unfolding in front of our eyes....
Under international law, the crime of genocide is defined by “the intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such,” as noted in the December 1948 UN Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide. In its murderous attack on Gaza, Israel has loudly proclaimed this intent. Israeli Minister of Defense Yoav Gallant declared it in no uncertain terms on October 9th: “We are imposing a complete siege on Gaza. No electricity, no food, no water, no fuel. Everything is closed. We are fighting human animals, and we will act accordingly.” Leaders in the West reinforced this racist rhetoric by describing Hamas’s mass murder of Israeli civilians—a war crime under international law that rightly provoked horror and shock in Israel and around the world—as “an act of sheer evil,” in the words of US President Joe Biden, or as a move that reflected an “ancient evil,” in the terminology of President of the European Commission Ursula von der Leyen. This dehumanizing language is clearly calculated to justify the wide scale destruction of Palestinian lives; the assertion of “evil,” in its absolutism, elides distinctions between Hamas militants and Gazan civilians, and occludes the broader context of colonization and occupation."
Or this essay, "Yes It Is a Genocide", by Amos Goldberg, a Holocaust and genocide researcher at the Hebrew University:
"Yes, it is genocide. It is so difficult and painful to admit it, but despite all that, and despite all our efforts to think otherwise, after six months of brutal war we can no longer avoid this conclusion. Jewish history will henceforth be stained with the mark of Cain for the “most horrible of crimes,” which cannot be erased from its forehead. As such, this is the way it will be viewed in history’s judgment for generations to come."
Maybe you would be interested in the Israeli human rights organization B'Tselem, who wrote a detailed report on Israel's genocide earlier this year:
"An examination of Israel’s policy in the Gaza Strip and its horrific outcomes, together with statements by senior Israeli politicians and military commanders about the goals of the attack, leads to the unequivocal conclusion that Israel is taking coordinated, deliberate action to destroy Palestinian society in the Gaza Strip. In other words: Israel is committing genocide against the Palestinians in the Gaza Strip. "
..or maybe the president of self-described 'liberal Zionist' organization J Street, Jeremy Ben-Ami, who wrote this summer that "I have ... been persuaded rationally by legal and scholarly arguments that international courts will one day find that Israel has broken the international genocide convention,"
What more? Nah, go ahead and just rant and say 'no it isn't' and post more ad hominem, fact free comments as a response.
Thank you, Jason, for your research and reporting to us all.
"So the nation accused of wanting to wipe out-in whole or in part - the Palestinian population of Gaza was willing to end the war in exchange for 20 people. And when the fighting stopped and the hostages came home, the jubilation in Israel was palpable." Wow, that is quite the" genocide."
You are still babbling and ranting here?
I guess you are still sad that you had no response at all to the many Israeli scholars and Jewish originations I quoted above that have affirmed that Israel has clearly and obviously committed genocide. I can quote a number more if you like?
But hey, now there is a slight reprieve in the daily massacres by Israel...all is great now! So glad they were 'jubilant' in the country that has carried out the genocide! No harm done! Just like the much ballyhooed 'ceasefire' earlier this year...how did that go?
So this is what the 'end of the war' has looked like so far in Gaza - 'peacetime' has a very different meaning for the stateless, rightless people who live under Israel military regime in the Occupied Territories:
So far, during this 'ceasefire', 35 Palestinians were killed the day the 'ceasefire' was announced last Friday, and 72 were wounded. Since then, at least 23 more have been killed, with at least 122 more wounded, while 400 bodies so far have been recovered from the rubble. Israel is still severely restricting the aid that are entering the region, and the Rafah border with Egypt is still closed by Israel. Gaza is buried under 50,000 tons of rubble, which will take at least 15 years to clear. Virtually every building has been destroyed or heavily damaged. Israel is still holding the bodies of at least 700 Palestinian hostages who died in captivity, including children, including some who died well before October 2023.
Israel also still holds thousands of Palestinian hostages in captivity, including hundreds of children, and at least 19 doctors as hostages, including Dr. Hussam Abu Safiya, director of Gaza’s Kamal Adwan Hospital, along with dozens more nurses and health care workers. Not a single one of whom has been charged with anything, and many have been tortured while in captivity.
The IOF has seized nearly 60% of Gaza as a closed and fully depopulated military zone, including most of its agricultural land, pushing the entire surviving population onto an area the size of Brooklyn, where barely a building is standing.
Many of the bodies of Palestinian hostages returned to Gaza arrived with signs of gunshot wounds and their hands and legs cuffed, and some still had blindfolds on, while several of the bodies bore signs of field executions and others were found with tank tracks on them.
Because of Israel's genocide, the birth rate of Palestinians in Gaza has declined by 41 percent, and miscarriages have risen over 300%, while over 60 percent of pregnant and breastfeeding women are unable to produce milk due to malnutrition.
The Abu Shabab gang, who was responsible for looting much of the UN aid with the blessing of Netanyahu and the IOF, is now serving as a proxy for the IOF is launching attacks inside Gaza, including the torture and assassination of Gaza journalist Saleh Al-Jaafrawi.
The IOF, as it withdrew, launched an arson spree, setting fire to civilian infrastructure, including the destruction of an essential sanitation plant. As one Israeli soldier put it: "Every Arab house we entered had olive oil ... We poured the oil on the sofas, on anything flammable in the apartment, and then we ignited [it] or threw in a smoke grenade. This was a common practice,”
Most of the 2000 released Palestinian hostages, many of whom showed signs of torture and starvation, came 'home' to find their entire families massacred, their homes destroyed, and their entire society decimated by Israel's reign of terror.
As it did this past winter, a 'ceasefire' in Gaza means still-daily killings and maiming of Palestinians by the Israeli occupation forces. Meanwhile, 'peace' in the West Bank means over 1000 killed in the past two years, with thousands more abducted, thousands more driven from their homes by fanatic 'settlers'.
Maybe you can go troll someone else for a while. Your infantile sputtering is not just dumb but really boring.
"Gaza is buried under 50,000 tons of rubble." Correct that, Hamas terrorists are buried under 50,000 tons of rubble. Where they can stay for all eternity as far as I'm concerned. I don't weep for Hamas like you do.
You must be quite the Hamas sympathizer. Are you a member?
Jason's ideas on genocide, particularly genocide in Gaza, are shared by objective scholars on genocide. A UN Commission of inquiry has also concluded that Israel has committed genocide in Gaza. What is your expertise?
The UN??? Do you think any Jew or Israeli gives a damn what the UN says? The most a to-Semitic anti-Israel body in the world. If Israel was engaged in genocide why are millions of Gazans still alive? Why are Israelis celebrating the cease fire? Don't be a fool.
Odd reply. The UN not only favored but enabled the establishment of the State of Israel. If you are this uninformed about that basic fact, why will anyone pay any attention to anything you say?
That was in 1947. Ancient history. Have you been sleeping since then? Maybe next you're going to quote UNWRA.
clearly this person is an expert in rantology, with a minor in talkingpointography
Funny thing about that Israeli "genocide." When the Nazis were committing a genocide, they lined up the Jews and marched the to the death camps. The IDF moved the Gazans *away* from where they were about to attack Hamas. That's a funny way of running a genocide. What a bunch of Einsteins here.
There's nothing funny about genocide. Period.
And IDF didn't move Gazans away, they gave them ultimatums to evacuate and eventually bombed and attacked the places where the Gazans moved to. Over 60.000 Palestinian bodies were indeed moved away, created by IDF, and moved by their Palestinian relatives.
'The IDF moved the Gazans *away* from where they were about to attack Hamas'...wow, I take back my comment above - this response from you is even more laughably dumb than your other responses here.
Yes, the thousands of unarmed, starving men, women and children that were executed at near point-blank range just this summer near 'aid' sites were being 'moved away'...so were the other tens of thousands of Palestinian journalists, doctors, aid workers, and civilians who were shot, bombed, tortured, raped and abducted by Israel in the past two years (not including the many thousands before that)..so were the 1000+ Palestinians killed in the West Bank....'moved' so far away from Gaza that they were in a region that had zero to do with Hamas.
I guess your brain 'has been sleeping' for a couple years, or more...or maybe it just atrophied and shriveled up from a diet of garbage.
Please see the list of 'those bunch of Einsteins' I listed above, in my earlier comment that you ignored...I know it's a lot for you to to read, just take it slowly, maybe in parts...
So interesting to me that in all your supposed heartfelt sympathy for the Gazans you never once mention Hamas' tactics of engaging in combat from schools, mosques, hospitals, UNWRA facilities... Need I go on? Or that Hamas leaders sit in the Ritz Carlton in Qatar with their billions in the banks deciding that ordinary Gazans should be sacrificed on the alter of the resistance. Hamas fires rockets into Israel from a hospital. Israel will fire back at the hospital. Usually after first dropping leaflets to evacuate. That is one helluva way to run a genicide: tell the people you're going to return fire before you do. Brilliant. https://www.instagram.com/reel/DPUISCtDKb4/?igsh=MTUwODF1Z3EydTJ0MA==
I believe each of us is called to be a contrarian when we know what must be said.
I'll think about whether to accept your "apology".
No please, go on about how amazingly astute and observant this article is.
Amazing. You worry about damage to Jewry - and rightly so - but not a word about the genocide threatening to become modern day Holocaust. I apologise if you do, but then minimal humanity, solidarity and empathy requires saying it - loudly and clearly - for only that way this crime against humanity of biblical proportion may stop.
Totally agree.
You're on a pretty solid limb.
I can't shake the nagging feeling given the Trump, Kuschner, Witcoff triumvirate, that Gaza is merely another real estate venture with Bibi having cleared the land for a cut and they don't much care what happens to the occupants so long as they don't interfere with the project.
I firmly believe that Trump couldn't give a flying fig about Israel, Palestine, or the Middle East in general. He's just angling for a Nobel Peace Prize, and that's his only motivation. He also is probably hoping he can make a few bucks along the way
Trump doesn’t have an altruistic bone in his body. He only became interested in negotiating a peace deal that would “help“ the Palestinians after Israel bombed Quatar. https://theintercept.com/2025/10/11/qatar-trump-gaza-ceasefire/
A Nobel Peace Prize and lucrative real estate deal. Its still cause for cognitive dissonance. “Trump peace plan”, an “ enemy within” and war on the American people have my head spinning. But if his bullying of Bibi has led to breaking, or at least weakening, American unwavering support of Israel no matter atrocities are committed, that will be a good thing.
The enemy within is none other than Donald J. Trump—the solo architect of anarchy and evil in the United States. No, make that the world.
Agreed. That may be one of, or the, only good thing to come out of this
What do you mean by a few bucks? Trump and his family are professional grifters and money hounds. They live and breathe each day for their next billion. No, they are beyond that; they're salivating for their first trillion. They are the most disgusting people on the planet.
He already was caught on video today having a conversation with the Indonesian PM, who mentioned "Eric" and T saying something like "we'll find another location, that one wasn't good."
I think figs will fly when pigs do… Oh wait, in this case they seem to be the same creature.
This is what I think also, after all he did say what he wanted to do with the land...Once I heard Kushner was involved I immediately knew it was about money & real estate. Neither Bibi nor Donald care about "the human beings" ....
I bet that synopsis contains far more truth than most of us imagine.
Trump said that Hamas had been given "approval for a period of time" to act as a temporary police force in Gaza. This was in response to reports of Hamas using violence against Palestinian rivals while attempting to establish itself as the security authority.
Details of the development:
A Reuters article quoted Trump's statement while he was en route to the Middle East.
The same day, Reuters reported that Hamas forces had killed 32 members of a "gang" in Gaza City during a security operation. A Palestinian security source confirmed that six Hamas personnel were also killed. https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/hamas-security-forces-kill-32-members-gaza-gang-official-says-2025-10-13/
Trump made the statement while discussing the security situation during the initial implementation of the ceasefire, noting that "a lot of bad things can happen" as Palestinians return to their destroyed homes.
https://www.arabnews.com/node/2618770/middle-east
Yes, some of those gangs accused by Hamas, of collaborating with Netanyahoo (sic).
Whether that’s true or not - that Hamas is willing to hand authority & weapons over to the next Palestinian govt is encouraging.
I'm not sure that Hamas is any more honorable about keeping their word with respect to this plan, than Netanyahu or Trump is. They are bad actors all 'round.
I don't believe 47 negotiated anything, Kushner and Witcoff maybe. 47, with increasing cognitive decline, isn't capable of difficult negotiations. He didn't demand Netanyahu allow food and supplies into Gaza for the innocent Palestinian people which he certainly could have done on Jan. 20, 2025-- or at any time. He didn't demand Netanyahu stop bombing innocents in Gaza. Netanyahu bombed for all the months 47 was in office and didn't do anything until he decided to. If 47 is so "powerful" why didn't he stop the killing in Gaza long before now?
I am sure something nefarious and corrupt is going on behind the scenes here. Trump never does anything for the good of the people. There are always threats and a significant financial benefit to him. So far I have not seen any investigative reporting or even an opinion column about this.
I'm with you!!! I am sure Trump and his family made something with this deal...
I have been thinking the same exact thing.
Reality--they are who they are and will do what they've always done-chase the profits; this being their only values.
spot on Night
It's a terrible but not dismissible thought.
I hope Bibi goes to jail!!!!
Laura, he would have had that fate two years ago if he hadn't ignored copious US and other intelligence (and probably Israel's) warning him that Hamas was plotting some kind of invasion. Strange, isn't it, that the cameras at the border crossing weren't operational on October 7, 2023, and the Iron Dome was also not working. I heard that on several media outlets at the time, but not since then.
When you consider the thousands of peaceful protestors demonstrating every day for months because Bibi was tampering with Israel's Supreme Court and packing it with ultra conservative justices, Bibi needed a war to distract from his political problems. So, let's see - a megalomaniac tyrant in Israel fanning the flames of "religion", and DJT's suddenly seeing the light of the religious ultra-right wing, regardless of his apparent lack of obvious religion in the past, and both seeing a path to their future ambitions by packing their Supreme Courts and embracing extremely conservative philosophy - hmmm, I see brothers from different mothers, but Bibi is the puppet master in Israel and Donald is the puppet who is controlled by our right-wing conservatives. I wish both of them long prison terms.
But now the puppet is the Master, it appears! 💥
Jay Jay Eh, I can't say that I agree with you. True, he has helped with the cease fire and release of Israeli hostages, but I'd guess that he has some self-serving motivation involved. In order for further good to come from this admittedly good-so-far result, there will be much more hard work to sustain it. It's not over yet, and rebuilding Gaza, sustaining peace, and keeping his foot out of his mouth are well beyond his remaining intellect and diplomatic skills. Only time will tell whether it can all be held together and peace can be maintained. As many here have already commented, the presence of Jared (and why Ivanka?) and Witkoff cast a financial shadow and self-dealing pall over future negotiations. I smell a deal between Donald and Bibi for some kind of remuneration for not-so-bright or diplomatic DJT.
resort on the beautiful beach of Gaza...
Patricia, although there has been no recent discussion of this gem, the fact that Jared tagged along with The Don did reawaken my suspicion in this direction. We all know that Trump isn't working to create a peaceful solution because of his humanitarian nature. There's a nefarious reason hidden for now.
all real estate guys...2+2 = nefarious reason
also remember the cartoon thing with huge trump statue ..trump tower Gaza ?!!
Time will tell, but the fact that other world leaders, including Arabs & Tony Blair are involved … increase the hope.
Plus Hamas has agreed to lay down their weapons TO the next Palestinian administration, gives further hope. It is in the best interests of everyone ELSE to see peace in the region.
except booby netonyahoo did not go to the signing so hamas didn't either
Jay Jay Eh, I agree that this is positive and can only hope that the process moves ahead without hinderance from our resident moron. However, he has caused maximum mayhem with everything he touches.
and bankruptcy
I do too Nancy, but I believe its a long list of despicables that are behind these two monsters to follow or lead them to prison.
Yes, Gwen, beginning with Trump's "advisors" Leonard Leo and the Project 2025 crowd. He's their useful idiot, and there are many more who will profit from Bibi's evil.
he should....
... as should Trump.
did not mean to leave him out !
They should both face charges at The Hague.
Call me when the ILLEGAL Israeli West Bank settlements are
fucking dismantled!!!
And call me Israel pays for the Hiroshima/Nagasaki that they rained
down on the starving civilians of Gaza.
Bibi/Trump are war criminals until then.
I haven't seen a single article in The Contrarian that actually discusses accountability for Israel's genocide at any length.
Difficult for someone of Jewish origin to do, perhaps?
I think Jen has made a reasonable effort here, at presenting a balanced picture. It perhaps lacks some specifics & isn’t perfectly tailored to suit all, but she’s a human being as well as a journalist.
*I count this cup more full than empty, and will not carry on endlessly over every detail & nuance she may have missed … not wanting the Perfect to become the Enemy of the Good.
Respectfully, I don't agree. I listed several Israeli and Jewish organizations and scholars that have given strong condemnations of Israel's genocide in this thread, who have all outlined their arguments clearly. So many of the loudest critics of Israel's policies are Jewish, both inside and outside of Israel. That includes everyone from scholars and journalists to Israeli citizens that have refused to fight in the IDF, to Israeli human rights organizations, to US-based groups like Jewish Voices for Peace and IfNotNow.
This piece is quite clearly lopsided toward concern for the Israeli people and state, with only a few brief mentions of the people of Gaza. The incredible level of suffering and devastation they have endured as a result of Israel's carnage is terribly understated here. The way she makes an equivalence between the 'suffering' of Israeli solders to the people they have been killing for two years is appalling.
This sort of just of glossing over the intensity and pervasiveness of the catastrophe in Gaza is pretty common in US media. I have no doubt that this has been a major contributing factor to the continuing support for Israel's war crimes by the US.
It matters, a lot, and I don't buy that anyone's background gives them any reason to ignore a genocide not only happening in front of our eyes, but happening with our tax dollars and our country's unwavering political, financial and cultural support.
This isn't to say that Rubin and others at The Contrarian aren't doing good work in other aspects...but that doesn't give her or this outlet a pass, IMO...in fact, it makes her weak response to this even more glaring.
PS- as far as this 'ceasefire' is going:
Earlier today, Israeli military forces in Gaza City killed at least five Palestinians, despite the ceasefire agreement that took effect last Friday. Separately, at least three children were injured Monday by what appeared to be unexploded Israeli ordnance dropped near Al-Shifa Hospital.
Israel is now refusing a allow number of the agreed-upon aid trucks into Gaza, claiming they will not allow more until all the Israeli hostage bodies have been recovered, even as people there continue to starve....meanwhile, at least 19 doctors, including Dr. Hussam Abu Safiya, director of Gaza’s Kamal Adwan Hospital, are still being held as hostages by Israel, along with many hundreds more Palestinian hostages who are being held without charges. Israel has also not released at least 700 bodies of Palestinians who died in Israeli captivity, including several children.
You won't find a word about any of this in The Contrarian.
I pretty well agree with the substance of what you say - you’re preaching to the choir here, Re: Palestinian injustices - but feel that Jen was putting forth HER best effort ‘at this point in time’. Just not sure that these ongoing, somewhat harsh & critical responses will encourage her to delve more deeply on the topic in the future — it doesn’t seem her effort this time around was very well received, and we don’t know what personal difficulties she may have to overcome to get as far as she did.
Also, Jen does not bear the sole responsibility for covering ALL the territory of this difficult & far-ranging subject. Not every news source covers every topic completely, many borrow from each other to flesh out their stories & sometimes simply leave room for others to delve into certain aspects more deeply than they themselves are willing, or have the time or resources to do.
In appreciation for her attempts to broach the subject at all (considering previous seeming reluctance), and in acknowledgement of her demonstrated desire for justice & accountability in numerous other matters of concern to us all — I was willing to give her space to approach this in her way & time. I trusted that she was giving HER best under HER circumstances … of which we have incomplete knowledge & understanding … and some people don’t seem to care, but she is human, you know.
And I felt that your level of ongoing critique was likely to be counterproductive of a) achieving more understanding of the topic at hand b) encouraging Jen to brave a deeper delve in the future.
Anyone truly desiring that deeper delve cd simply go to another source after expressing some critiques & perhaps suggestions … but you began to seem like a dog with a bone!
In short, the time & degree that you pursued the matter seemed unproductive, unnecessary, and began to look almost personal.
Now we’re bickering more about her writing than the Palestinians.
It begins to feel almost as if she were being held responsible for their plight and all coverage of it. I have RARELY, if ever, seen a journalist’s article picked at in such an ongoing manner, and I basically feel it’s ‘over the top’.
Well, I don't really agree with any of that, sorry.
For one thing, I very much doubt that Rubin, with over half a million subscribers to a newsletter that publishes dozens of pieces daily, reads many, if any at all, of these comments.
Some readers here might not get that, but the comments here are for other readers. Rubin doesn't care what I think, and I don't expect her to.
Besides that, Rubin is a seasoned, tough journalists and commentator, who has been in the public eye for 20 years. The comments to her pieces in the Post, with its much bigger and broader audience (then anyway), were much more varied and often much more critical than the comments here. The audience at The Contrarian is largely made up of big fans of Rubin that followed here here from the Post (a move that I applauded, and said so), and it shows in the responses. So many are just annoyingly sycophantic, content-free cheerleading that do nothing to add to any discussion. (side note: I don't only comment on Rubin's pieces..unlike so many other readers here, I read many other writers at The Contrarian, and listen to the interviews, and often I will comment on articles that only a tiny handful of others have responded to)
And also, Rubin gives out plenty of harsh criticism herself ,as she should...this goes back to her days as a hard-right opinion writer, who lambasted Obama constantly, calling him and Michelle 'the Obandi' and supporting policies she has now largely turned against.
Your whole take that she is 'putting forth her best effort' and that that we should 'encourage her to delve more deeply ' completely missed the point. She's not a school kid on a learning curve.
Rubin is very knowledgeable about a wide range of political topics, including this one. The point is not that 'delve deeply', she very clearly reporting only aspects she is concerned with, and by that is giving a highly skewed version of events in this case.
This has been consistent in her reporting and in The Contrarian's coverage in general concerning Israel and the Occupied Territories (a term which they notably never use btw). For the first six months of this outlet, they barely said a single word about Gaza or the West Bank at all. Then, when pictures of starving Palestinians stated surfacing in mainstream media, there were a number of pieces over a few weeks. Same as now, those pieces entirely avoided so many aspects of Israel's crimes, while focusing on 'the children' and passive language to describe 'people that were starving'. I noted then that Norm Eisen , over several 'Coffee' conversations with Rubin, literally never even said the word 'Palestinian'. His comments, even more so than Rubin's, were entirely about the impact to Israelis, as if the massive devastation created by Israel in Gaza and the West Bank was not even worthy of mention.
Then, Gaza was almost entirely dropped from The Contrarian, again, until recently, with a number of discussion about the so-called 'ceasefire' which have followed that same tack. This is not just about 'time' or 'resources', this is clearly an intentional promotion of a point of view, which is consistent with Rubin's long support of Israel's policies and her long history of criticizing Palestinians and their supporters, which has changed over time, but only to a degree.
This article is called 'What now for Israel and Gaza?', but it is almost entirely only about the impacts to Israel, with are literally nothing when compared to the impacts to Gaza, which are beyond devastating. When Rubin writes something as awful as 'Israelis have been traumatized (as have Gazans)', that deserves to be pointed out, as many others have here. Rubin obviously doesn't write this because she simply doesn't know or have the ability to know what is going on. Your kid-glove take on Rubin is really a bit patronizing IMO. You talk of here like she some fragile wallflower who needs a pep talk, not as a tough, professional political pundit who has been in the ring for decades.
Rubin isn't an amateur that needs to be 'encouraged' or helped. She and her team are perfectly capable, knowledgeable, and professional. As I said, these comments are for readers here, and my comments are also often harshly criticized..sometimes with substance, more often with snips like 'get your own Substack' or 'if you don't like it, go somewhere else'.
Plus, nearly every single comment I have made regarding this topic gets angry responses from hard line supporters of Israel's actions, like the idiot above who said I had a 'child's understanding of genocide' then went on to back this nonsense with more bullshit, even after I carefully listed a number of Israeli scholars who have explained why this is true... but hey, that's part of being in a public forum. And, more than that, this to me just illustrates why I think this point of view needs to be mentioned here, since many of Rubin's leaders are 'liberals' who also have no problem with genocide and apartheid, or deny that they exist entirely. Again, the comments are more for readers here than the actual writers.
I think it's you that is making this 'personal' ...you have mentioned Rubin in personal terms several times. I am not concerned about her personal life. What I am concerned with is that the US is actively supporting one of the worst human atrocities this century, and The Contrarian's coverage, which consistently puts Israeli's 'suffering' at the same level, or more often at a level with much more focus and discussion, than the actual victims of Israel's genocide, apartheid and intense violence, is one component on that ongoing problem. That take alone serve to trivialize and sideline the massive war crimes Israel continues to commit.
This isn't just some policy issue or disagreement on tactics. This is about genocide, a collection of the worst war crimes possible , inflicted on millions of people.
"Now we’re bickering more about her writing than the Palestinians.' is entirely your take. I always, every time go out of my way to point out actual facts that are not mentioned here, with facts and figures as well as quotes and comments from scholars, activists and leaders that add to the discussion. I also think I read the pieces here and listen to the interviews more carefully, and with a deeper level of critical thinking, that many other readers, who only want to be told what they already believe.
The Contrarian itself invites 'lively debate'. It seems to be at this point, after multiple comments to me about my own responses, that you are the 'dog with a bone' that is making this 'almost personal'. My comments here are always reasoned and I always back them up with quotes from the pieces.
What I think is 'over the top' and the endless slavish praise filled comments I see here...talk about 'preaching to the choir'...saying 'nothing more substantive than you go Jen', which so many commenters do over and over here, is the opposite of 'lively debate'; or even 'critical thinking'...and the flaws in The Contrarian's coverage of Israel and the Occupied Territories are glaring. This outlet claims to be 'unflinching, unapologetic, and unwavering in its commitment to truth-telling'..I am holding them to that standard. I would hope others would do that too.
Well, it is quite possible that you are correct on all or at least most counts here, and it is I who is the amateur here.
However, altho I May have been overly considerate in ‘giving her a break’ due to her potentially having an emotional, cultural & social ‘blind side’ in this issue, I don’t feel I have been slavish in praise for her, I’m generally not a gushy sort.
I likely bend towards treating her as I wd like to be treated, and I am obviously not the ‘hard-nosed professional’. I also appreciate the emotional suffering on both sides of this conflict, and that is truly an instance where ‘comparisons are odious’ - genuine grief deserve universal respect.
As far as overall suffering, however, clearly the Palestinians are by FAR the most unfairly & *collectively punished, traumatized and dispossessed. I think of them as I go about my day — when eating a small cup of applesauce I imagine it going instead to a little child — one feels so impotent & often very angry.
Due to that anger over this injustice I have had to take a break from the Gaza news, lest it become toxic and overwhelming, but it’s always there to some degree, in the news or my thoughts.
The only concrete thing I have done is sponsor a girl in Lebanon, through World Vision, with occasional written exchanges with her parents, esp her mother, which I think she found encouraging.
Anyway, I do appreciate your depth of concern and knowledge, and I don’t want to disparage that. I likely see things more through a personal, emotional perspective than some.
I just hope this Trump truce thing holds long enough to get to the 2nd phase where an interim coalition party overseeing things gets a firm hold on the situation — most people are afraid to place their hopes too high there.
Did you see the news about a week ago where a small group of Israelis (mostly women I believe) was encouraging everyone to acknowledge the 🔻genocide, and even *welcomed their Israeli *pariah status as just and even necessary? Lack of press freedom in Israel doesn’t help here at all, plus the ‘dampening effect’ of the Trump regime on free speech virtually anywhere … King of the World, he has crowned himself.
I look forward to the lessened power of Trump, Netanyahoo, AIPAC et al, but feel that genuine solutions will only come with the ‘new system of things’ as foretold in the Bible. 🕊️🌿
Mankind has kept relapsing in it’s self-governing for so long — to think that there is public discussion of Naziism in the ‘land of the free, home of the brave’ exemplar, U.S.A. is mind boggling, no? And within such a short period of time post 2 WWs.
— “It was the best of times, it was the worst of times, it was the age of wisdom, it was the age of foolishness, it was the epoch of belief, it was the epoch of incredulity, it was the season of Light, it was the season of Darkness, it was the spring of hope, it was the winter of despair …, we had nothing before us, we were all going direct to Heaven, we were all going direct the other way …” Dickens, Tale of Two Cities comes to mind.
Best Wishes in your pursuit of truth and Justice, Jason.
Thank you for taking the time to respectfully engage in debate here.
And no responsibility for the destruction that hamas has caused the Palestinians? Nothing? Crickets.
Right, no article in The Contrarian has mentioned this, except for every single article the Contrarian has ever written about Israel and the Occupied Territories. Very loud, talkative 'crickets'.
Note: Israel, not Hamas, is the entity that has committed genocide, that has created more child amputees per capita that anywhere in the world, that has assassinated hundreds of journalists, doctors, aid workers, along with a still unknown number of civilians... Israel dropped the equivalent of several Hiroshima-sized atomic bombs on Gaza, not Hamas..Israel has been killing Palestinians in Gaza since decades before Hamas existed.
...and Israel has killed over 1000 Palestinians in the West Bank in the past two years alone, and has kidnapped thousands more, while stealing land and homes every single days for years.... which has zero to do with Hamas.
Hamas was practicing ‘asymmetrical warfare’ against a ‘Goliath’ Israel.
The Palestinian people know & appreciated this, but also began to curse Hamas.
— I’ll bet Hamas, Israel & America will be cursed by Palestinians for a long time.
The poor people … they even thought that ‘the whole world’ was ignoring their plight.
— they didn’t know that people tried to help & were beaten & jailed for their efforts.
Lawrence, they will remain war criminals, regardless of whether they are held accountable.
Thank you for your wise words. However, I am very uneasy that this was brokered by Jared Kushner and those monied managers with real estate investments on their mind. I am deeply suspicious that any Gazan will be involved in the reconstruction of their homeland when, in fact, the construction of this potential Riviera has, no doubt, already been planned. I am not sure this has been as much of a political resolution that it was a real estate business deal.
I agree. Trump and his family are grifters. There is no altruism in their dealings. Please read this from the Intercept: https://theintercept.com/2025/10/11/qatar-trump-gaza-ceasefire/
Let’s hope that fellow Arab countries won’t allow that.
I think they're as enthralled with the prospect of making a buck as Don the Con is, so I'm not expecting much out of them.
Yes, but even they have a few actual principles within them.
Plus they have to .LIVE with the results = + motivation.
As the daughter of a mother who survived Auschwitz and three slave-labor camps, I came to the conclusion that suffering changes only those whose souls can rise over grievances. Alas, not many are changed; they easily revert to hatred and bigotry and a thirst for revenge. I can only hope that people of conscience will prevail....
Yes, Anca. People of conscience and compassion.
People of conscious have not been in charge of Israel for over 50 years
That's rather a thoughtless comment. Rabin's and Sadat's assassinations ensured that people of CONSCIENCE (note spelling) would not be in charge.
The result is still the same. Charlatan, thieves, and murderers have been in charge of Israel. Israeli leadership created Hamas
Not that I disagree, but "Charlatans, thieves, and murderers" have been in charge of most nations. When ever was it otherwise?
You're true to your last name.
Well, you can make mindless digs. But at least I don’t support genocide like you do.
I haven't seen where Anca Vlasopolos has supported genocide at all.
Yes! And those of us who do not carry the burden of victimhood are called as human beings to do what we can in real time, real ways, to help heal those broken by generational trauma. There is no other way. Systematic, research-based therapeutic healing for as many as we can. We, who are able, are called to heal what is broken, when all is said and done.
Trump is delusional if he thinks this is a peace deal. It’s a ceasefire agreement. “It will be a golden age for the Middle East “. So much anger and resentment on both sides it will be extraordinarily difficult for this to be maintained. I’m glad the hostages are home but saddened for those who have lost their loved ones.
Well, Don the Con has a long-standing reputation for puffery (at best) and carnival barking (at worst). So he's just playing true to form
It’s a given that he is delusional
Rubin seems incapable of understanding that Palestinian lives are just as important as Israeli lives, and that the suffering of Israeli citizens does not remotely compare to the devastation wrought on the people in Gaza (and the West Bank) by Israel.
Even in the first sentence, she mentions the ' remaining 20 live Israeli hostages ' without a word about the thousands pf Palestinian hostages that are now being released. She does not mention that people in the West Bank have been warned that if they celebrated the releases, they would be arrested. She mentions the effect of the 'interminable war with unimaginable horrors' on the soldiers who committed those horrors, while she only mentions the 'the grief of thousands of Gazans whose loved ones were killed or maimed', using the passive tense to avoid saying who is responsible for the killing and maiming. She puts the suffering of Israeli soldiers on equal footing (actually, higher footing) than the suffering of the people in Gaza, as if these two things are comparable by any stretch of the imagination.
She later writes 'Finally, Israelis have been traumatized (as have Gazans)' as if the suffering of people in Gaza is just an afterthought, a side note to those that have truly suffered: the Israeli people. The entire article is heavily focused on Israel, and the impacts to Israeli politics.
As has been the case in every Contrarian article recently, there is not a single word about accountability for the Israeli government and military for committing what a constantly growing number of human rights organizations and scholars in the world has affirmed is genocide, committed by Israel on the Palestinian people. Everyone from the UN to the president of J Street has affirmed this; the Contrarian refuses to say it.
Until there is full accountability for the leaders of in Israel's government and military for its horrendous crimes, there is no justice, and there will be no 'peace'. The Contrarian's coverage of the Occupied Territories continues to be shamefulness conditions and limited, made even more striking by its otherwise solid coverage of domestic politics.
This was reported already by Drop Site News:
'In the immediate aftermath of Donald Trump’s announcement on Thursday that both Hamas and Israel had signed off on an agreement to stop the fighting, the Israeli military launched an arson spree, setting fire to civilian infrastructure, including the destruction of an essential sanitation plant in Gaza City. ...
The destruction of Palestinian structures following the departure of soldiers who had used them as temporary bases has been a hallmark of Israel’s approach to Gaza for two years. In July, Israeli reporter Yuval Abraham collected testimonies from soldiers describing a myriad of arson methods. “Every Arab house we entered had olive oil [...] We poured the oil on the sofas, on anything flammable in the apartment, and then we ignited [it] or threw in a smoke grenade. This was a common practice,” one of them described.
The agreement came after months of a concerted effort to render Gaza uninhabitable by destroying residences and civilian infrastructure, culminating in the ground invasion of Gaza City and the leveling of several high rises in Gaza City. In September, Israeli government minister Gila Gamliel told Channel 7 News, “We have already completely annihilated 75% of the entire [Gaza] Strip. There remains 25%, which, as you know, it too...we are now taking over [the city of] Gaza—there will be nothing left there that would really [have] the potential to be habitable.” '
Truly sickening — but apparently a common war tactic — just in this case especially unnecessary and *amoral … but they were ‘just following orders’ … to be inhumane.
I think The Contrarian has played their hand wisely here, considering their Jewish roots/ association … ‘the facts, M’am - just the facts’! … and *as they happen*, not getting ahead of themselves or the actions on the ground.
Yes, they use the passive voice etc when discussing Palestinian lives lost, but if a gang thundered into MY village/country & did what Hamas did, I’m sure that I wd Harbour great animosity toward them, even overcoming my usual bent towards humanitarianism & Christianity etc.
A great deal of TIME will be needed to overcome these natural human tendencies.
* There ARE Jewish groups & individuals who bother to inform themselves further than their govt allows in their 🔹sanitized version of the news — and they have acted upon it, much to their credit, even inviting the worldwide ‘rebuke’ brought upon them & fellow Israelis. Credit where credit is due. (Even God called Israelis a ‘stiff-necked people’ didn’t he? Acts 7:51-52 + others).
** I had to quit the amount of Gaza-Israeli news I was reading because it became too upsetting & frustrating for me - impotently spinning my wheels, altho as you may recall I did join you there to some degree. While on WaPo I played the keyboard warrior for almost a year … to what avail I don’t know, but it was my stand & I kept myself informed.
Different strokes for different blokes, I have faith that those *with consciences* are doing their best … and I don’t mind better informing them from time to time PRN.
I believe you come from a place of caring & are incensed that others are not as inclusive with their caring. But *some of the people you are angry with in this regard have obstacles to overcome that it might be helpful for you to also consider.
Best Wishes. 🌿 JJ
It's not a matter of 'different strokes'..there is simply no equivalency whatsoever between the status of Israel and that of Gaza (or the West Bank for that matter).
You are correct that there are 'Jewish groups and individuals' that have condemned Israel's actions -specifically, that have affirmed what is well accepted by now - that Israel has committed genocide is Gaza (which continues).
There is almost no mention of these individuals or groups in The Contrarian however.
The United Nations Independent International Commission of Inquiry on the Occupied Palestinian Territory just released an exhaustive report detailing how Israel has committed genocide, as defined by international law. These findings are consistent with the conclusions of Israeli human rights org B'TSelem, the president of J Street, The International Association of Genocide Scholars, and several Israeli historians and genocide scholars, among many, many other countries, organizations and individuals.
I have not seen any single mention of the word 'genocide ' in an article in The Contrarian.
It is not a matter of semantics, or even of opinion. It is an objective interpretation of international law, which the Contrarian has very conspicuously failed to address or even acknowledge.
And, as I keep saying because it is so lacking here, Israel's massive escalation of violence in the West Bank has nothing to do with Hamas..Neither does it also-massive escalation of attacks on many of its neighboring countries.
Instead, this article almost entirely focuses on the 'suffering' of the country that has inflicted genocide and apartheid and almost unimaginable levels of horror over these past years, let alone before that.
Thank you Jason. While Jen's article is thoughtful in places, I almost stopped after the first paragraph with the detailed numbers and situations for Israel described while lumping of all that Gazan's have gone through into a single sentence of "thousands" when it's actually tens of thousands: 70,000 is the estimate, with a majority of those being women and children. I did push to read on so that I didn't make an uneducated comment, and then there was the 'Finally, Israelis have been traumatized (as have Gazans)' - with Gazan's being relegated to little more than a parenthetical afterthought. I feel sick, and I am almost ready to quit my subscription to The Contrarian over this.
Agreed.
I was disgusted even more after re-reading this article, for those same reasons...the line you mention ' 'Finally, Israelis have been traumatized (as have Gazans)' ' was just gobsmackingly awful...right up there with her lamentations about the suffering of ...the soldiers who have inflicted the massacres and devastation.
As I understand it, 67,000 or so (as of today) is the number actually confirmed dead. That number is likely twice that much, or more, as bodies are recovered from the rubble, and right now people are still dying from disease, malnutrition and other impacts directly caused by Israel's genocide.
And, I feel you, I am about ready to quit my subscription too..although Rubin and others here do publish good commentary, their coverage of Israel and the Occupied Territories has been consistently poor.
I do think actual 'contrarian' voices here are important too though.
Jason I hope you won't quit The Contrarian. It and we NEED your voice. And I'm sure you know that there are no pure, clean hands in this imperfect world of imperfect persons. Not The Contrarian, not you, not me.
I appreciate a lot of what The Contrarian does. As I have said (I think you understand this) - my reasons for commenting here are because of that fact.
And you are correct of course. This particular thing is just so incredibly egregious and outrageous, and our own country has so much culpability here (bipartisan too), I will continue to speak out on it.
I always appreciate your replies Donna! Keep em coming!
Go, Jason!
Andrea H. YES!!! The minimizing of the suffering of Gazans screamed off the page.
You kinda remind me of the Woodie Allen joke:
2 people are discussing a particular restaurant:
The first person says "the food there is terrible"
and the second responds with "Yes, and the portions are so small"
If you don't like Jen's comments that much, why do you keep following her. Do you enjoy getting riled up? There are a lot of (right wing) columnists with whom I disagree and despise. I came to realize that reading them only raises my blood pressure, so I stopped.
In this case I think Jason might be interested in consciousness-raising (as we used to call is) as well as commenting, Ivan. Which I think is very important. Jen seems to be moving. But The Contrarian still seems in thrall to Israel's interests more than in the larger humankind issues.
Thank you.
I guess I err in thinking my point is obvious, and I have said it many times. The entire reason I comment here and I don't waste time commenting in The Free Press or something is because Rubin, Eisen and others here do good work in most other topics. This is an audience I believe is reachable, but I also believe is sorely lacking on this particular issue, and this has been demonstrated over and over.
I really find the responses like the one above tiresome. As I've said before, do Rubin's subscribers not see the irony of mocking or dismissing someone for posting a contrary point of view, in an outlet called 'The Contrarian'?
The Contrarian's own 'About page says they are " unflinching, unapologetic, and unwavering in its commitment to truth-telling. " and its "contributors may not agree on all issues (and, in fact, enjoy lively debate)"....apparently, many of its readers do not want 'lively debate', they want to their own beliefs affirmed.
I'm hoping, Jason, you'll comment on the number of deaths of Gazans. The MSM reports 65,000. I scratched my head when I read that. Ralph Nader, whose newsletter often addresses Palestinian issues, puts the number at about 600,000 and cites sources to back this up.
I have commented on that ghastly number many times. Maybe I'll mention above again. Honestly, I get discouraged in these threads.
Here are some figures assembled by Zeteo recently:
67,000 confirmed killed (and yes, that number is likely far higher. One Lancet study estimates 186,000 direct and indirect deaths, which of course are still happening due to starvation, disease, injuries......we may never really know the total). Confirmed just means they have been identified..No serious observer thinks that number will not raise by tens of thousands more, at a minimum, as the rubble is cleared.
92% of all homes destroyed in Gaza
790 attacks on doctors and health care facilities
At least 270 journalists assassinated
Virtually the entire surviving population is food insecure
Sorry that I mssed your earlier comment on the number of deaths, etc. Raplh Nader cites the Lancelot but still offers a much higher total, and suggests that they agree that the total is much higher. And those still alive are food-insecure, most likely homeless and without medical care. Never mind things like education for their children. Netanyahu's war was a holocaust and should be recognized as that.
I am a paid subscriber to The Contrarian and I find Norm and Jen smart, focused, and relevant every day. However, I posted today my response to her comment seeming to equate or even downplay the destruction of Gaza and the murder of such an incredible number of women, children doctors, aid workers, and men - probably including some nasty Hamas soldiers.It's okay to disagree with someone on an important issue and still respect their overall stance as defender of democracy. Why should I drop my subscription because I don't see eye to eye with Jen Rubin on this? Sounds like a "purity test," and I think those aren't helpful.
I don't see it as a 'purity test', more as, do I want to support this?
I am also a subscriber and honestly do not think I will unsubscribe at this time. But this issue, for me, is much larger than a simple matter of opinion.
The genocide committed by Israel could never have happened without strong, bipartisan support form the US, which includes those pundits and journalists that justify that support and downplay its effects. I have noted in other threads that the lack of condemnation of the massive range of appalling acts by Israel makes me question one's ' overall stance as defender of democracy'.
This is beyond a particular policy or law...this is so horrendous, I feel everyone should be speaking out against it, loudly and clearly. It's a matter of basic morality and humanity.
Or, as Ta-Nehisi Coates recently put it, “We are at a moment right now where people are asking themselves why can’t the Democratic Party defend this assault on democracy . . . and I would submit to you that if you can’t draw the line at genocide, you probably can’t draw the line at democracy.”
Still, your point is well taken.
Maybe read my last sentence:
"The Contrarian's coverage of the Occupied Territories continues to be shamefulness conditions and limited, made even more striking by its otherwise solid coverage of domestic politics."
Also, unlike you I guess,I have nuanced opinions of journalists and their work, which is rarely all of nothing. I don't comment to cheerlead , like so many do here.
Also, as is made clear in these comments, The Contrarian's readers are the ones who needs the reminders and the counterpoint regarding Israel and the Occupied Territories (you know, the meaning of the word 'contrarian'). American 'liberals' who have supported Israel's apartheid and war crimes, since long before October 2023, are a huge reason why the US continues its support for these crimes. A large portion of the Democratic Party is in that boat ...which is rarely if ever mentioned in Rubin's pieces.
Jen,
You tacked more to the middle than I ever thought you would. I respect your opinion and your process for getting there. My sister, 6 nieces and nephews, and 10 great nieces and nephews live in Israel.
You gave me food for thought
Thank you!
Aside from what Jen mentioned, Netanyahu's right-wing extremist coalition members, Smotrich and Ben Gvir, often threatened to quit if he didn't do their bidding, thus probably prolonging the war, it is also true that the worldwide support for Hamas on college campuses and elsewhere strengthened the Hamas bargaining position, which also prolonged the war.
You are so wrong. The protests on US college campuses were not for Hamas, they were for what was being done to the GAZA POPULATION by Israeli "defense" forces.
Ostensibly maybe so, but they were effectively on behalf of Hamas, who often responded with their explicit thanks.
Turns out MAGA fascists are not the only ones dealing in alternate facts. Please link us to a source where it says Hamas "explicitly" thanked US college protesters. spend a lot of time getting news from all kinds of different sources, and I have NOT seen this accusation cited anywhere.
Me thinks, you are a 100% supporter of Natanyahoo and Israel, no matter how much genocide they commit.
I like your "mis-spelling" (ahem) of the Israeli leader's name. :) Very apt.
Thank you. Been doing it for several years.
Last time I tried giving you sources, you ignored the links, so this feels like a waste of time, but I hate to read you once again insulting people with whom you disagree, so here is one example of several for Rachel Youdelman's assertion: https://www.jns.org/mashaal-hails-great-student-flood-on-us-campuses-calls-for-legal-flood-in-the-hague/
From that link: [Khaled Mashaal, the the head of Hamas’ political wing, said in 2024, in remarks] posted on the Facebook page of the Global Coalition for Quds and Palestine [translated from Arabic]: "“We thank the Great Student Flood, which emerged from the American, European and Western universities, and has reached all the countries of our nation. We are grateful for the spirit that we have witnessed in our nation, and in humanity as a whole. We are grateful to the free people of the world,” said Mashaal."
Also, Israeli hostages were told by their captors that Hamas coordinates with the campus protests: https://www.timesofisrael.com/gaza-captor-told-hostages-that-hamas-collaborates-with-us-campus-protesters-lawsuit-alleges/
How do you know I ignored your links last time. Perhaps they were not worth responding to, like these here in actuality.
Your sources state that Hamas is thanking the US college protestors for their protests and/or "gaza captor told hostages that hamas collaborates with US campus protesters."
That still does not mean that the US college campus protests where FOR hamas. It still means they were AGAINST the genocide perpetuated by Israel against the citizens of Gaza. Israel actively killed emergency helpers. doctors, destroyed hospitals, starved the Gaza population.
Actually, Israel has done more to drum up support for hamas than any US college campus population ever could.
Another question: why are so very many young members of the Israeli "defense" forces committing suicide?
Guilt, shame + regular war horror stuff.
Hamas told their hostages lots of things … to dishearten them,
— doesn’t mean they were true.
It’s a common form of punishment/ psych torture.
Pretty sure American-Israeli intelligence wd have picked up anything *real of that sort.
Guess you're a supporter of punishment/psych torture.
And as she hints, Trump's and Wtikoff's Qatari real-estate deals gave them a bargaining chip with Qatar. That's in addition to the jet. And Qatar will have an airforce base in Idaho. So this is likely about far more than what's on the surface.
Exactly. Trump basically bought off Qatar, who was supporting and harboring Hamas, so of course, they get on board with "peace".
And now Qatar has been given space for an air force base in our own country, near the Canadian border. Why?
Probably has part of the buy off deal. They'll have an easier time of murdering US citizens that way.
I have my doubts this ceasefire will hold. History shows that the entire Middle East hasn't been a peaceful place. It would be great if it does hold.
And when you think of it, both Netanyahu and Hamas are masters of negotiating in bad faith.
I am discouraged booby and bs prince guy weren't at the signing... nor hamass, however if they knew booby wasn't going to be there why should they...
this is why the middle east is such a problem, no one wants to give an inch. this is a perfect time for all of the tribes over there to at least make an attempt to fix their 3000 year old bull shit...
Some with good memories have noticed this peace deal is very similar to phase 2 in what Biden proposed more than a year ago. It was stymied by Netanyahu. Trump picked it up when Netanyahu's
and Israel's position and image on the world stage had drastically declined.
Thanks, exactly what I was going to say. Netanyahu is the biggest obstacle to a lasting peace.
I guess it's because Uncle Joe didn't have the guts to muscle Bibi around, whereas Don the Con has been muscling people around his whole life. That's his general way of doing business.
Also Biden doesn't consider Palestinians people. So there's that.
In very general terms, I agree with your assessment. Where I differ with you is the sense that you imphasize the impact of the war on the civilian residents and soldiers of Israel, but the devastating effects of the war on the residents of Gaza are almost an after-thought and strongly linked to an association with the actions of Hamas. You seem to tend to view the situation as if prior to Oct 2023, all was reasonably quiet and calm. When in fact it was proceed by a decade of Isreal's illegal expansion and government sponsored atrocities committed against a civilian population while at the same time Israel participated in the funding of Hamas throug 3rd parties. I wait for you to advocate for the civilian population of Gaza with the same fervor you extend to the civilians in Israel.
".... while at the same time Israel participated in the funding of Hamas through 3rd parties". I have read this a few times, also with Netanyahu in lieu of Israel funding Hamas. If true, it would add quite another dimension of Bibi's evilness.
It's just crazy that Trump and his regime are all in on these countries like Israel and Iran, Iraq and Qatar and all these crazy places. However, they start war within their own country. They started the war in America against anybody that doesn't say they're a nationalist Christian or maga Republican. FDJT
Now more attention will be paid to Israel's reign of terror in the West Bank, and hopefully get some measure of control back from the Netanyahu government.
What makes you think that? There is not a word about the West Bank in this 'agreement' (or in practically any coverage of any of this in US media, including The Contrarian).
There is no accountability for Netanyahu or his murderous allies ever mentioned.
It is very good that the Palestinian people are getting some reprieve from Israel's genocidal carnage, but there is little reason to believe there will be any meaningful change in Israel's policies of apartheid and ethnic cleansing at this point..
I do hope you are right though.
Yes, now that world leaders have Trump * somewhat * on board, Netanyahoo’s (sic) wings will be clipped & he may be feeling a little more inhibited in his killing & Middle East expansionist/domination sprees.
He will also need to start thinking about his 🔻re-election campaign &🔻COURT appearances.
— I’m hoping these considerations & the inevitable 🔻Oct. 7 INVESTIGATIONS Re: his role in defensive failures etc. will consume his attn more than + land grabs.
If Trump makes money out of any deal, he will be happy. He only thinks of himself. A Trump Gaza Resort is what the grifter has in mind.