I've heard elsewhere that the eight were just providing cover for many more who didn't want to go public. But I don't understand the reasoning, the hypocrisy, of believing that the fight has been lost but letting others sign the surrender.
As someone once said, "These proceedings are closed."
I do blame the GOP for all of this last decade. They have caved. I don’t want to be a party to caving to a violent pedophile extortionist. Gee, forgive me my standards.
The fix was in. You can try to convince me that Schumer was not in on the deal. His whip (not running in 2026) was a leader in the GOP CR passing. Jeanne Shaheen is also not running. Tim Kaine was safe. What a tangled subterfuge. https://hotbuttons.substack.com/p/pieces-of-8-shit?r=3m1bs
The Dems are willingly dirtying themselves in GOP plots. No one forced them to cave again & again & again. They know the outcome. They know who will be hurt. They understood what they were doing to us which is why they picked 8 safe senators. They are not leaders. They are spineless traitors to democracy. And probably received nice big checks for their votes. Self-serving assholes need to be kicked to the curb. They are every bit as culpable in destroying democracy.
You're absolutely right-- everyone knew that the Democratic Senators who caved would face a firestorm of criticism, so they found 8 Senators who either were planning to retire or didn't have to face their furious constituents for at least 3 years and got those 8 to "volunteer to take the gaspipe for the whole group"
But we sure DO know what we see in front of our eyes. Open yours. Blind obedience is what the repugs do. We will never be blindly obedient to bad behavior no matter the color of your hat. That is exactly how we got here and why millions did not bother to vote because in their minds there is no difference between the 2 parties. They aren't watching the every day minutia. They just see 2 parties that never put their lives first.
To all Rebups reveling in their Schadenfreude over Dems recent display of dysfunction; 'harm joy' lasts only as long as your bottle of dopamine...the hangover of hatred will be your undoing.
Now is exactly the time to risk a leadership challenge because there is a year until the next election and little to lose. What's clear is that we are already divided and it would be foolish not to take a shot at getting new leadership that is able to unite us.
Oy. All politics is (and are) local. The Congressional leaders are elected by their peers, i.e. others who have run for public office and were elected from their parochial districts. .
Oh please. You been living under a rock? You think the Senate majority GOP is going to allow a vote that saves healthcare? And then the majority GOP House will also do what's right? Are you related to Schumer?
He didn't negotiate diddly-squat. Why do you spout stuff you know absolutely nothing about, that makes absolutely no sense? Why would someone "negotiate" an outcome and not only vote against it, but denounce it on the floor of the Senate?
I will never figure out this bloodlust for the circular firing squad as an antidote to all our problems. It's just loony-tunes.
It is obvious that Schumer at least knew what was happening, and likely helped engineer it. It's beyond a coincidence that every member of this group of Senators taking the fall are all either retiring or not running in 2026.
One of them is the Democratic whip and the No. 2-ranking member of the Senate Democratic leadership, Dick Durbin. IT is impossible to believe that Schumer had nothing to do with this.
It is also obvious that Schumer denying it is nothing more than political theater.
But if somehow he had no idea, then he is the most out of touch, feckless minority leader ever...either way, he needs to go.
There's is nothing whatsoever 'circular' about the firing squad...all knives and muskets are pointed in one direction...
Exactly!!! There was something very choreographed about this whole thing. It could not have happened without Shumer's participation. He has managed to grab defeat from the jaws of victory.
For the second time, I agree with you. Anyone who thinks Schumer didn't at least know about it, or at most engineered it, must have "just come down with the last shower" to use an Australian saying (equivalent to the American saying "is wet behind the ears")
....you seem to forget, or not understand, that the Democrats called for the shutdown by not caving to GOP demands....which caused suffering....and then they caved, gaining absolutely nothing for the suffering., while losing all credibility and giving the GOP exactly zero reason to ever negotiate with the Dems gain.
You are naive to the point of absurdity. Really.
There are two options - Schumer did know to some extent, or he didn't. Both cases are grounds for his removal as leader. It is really that simple, as virtually every supporter of the Democratic Party besides you, from the most 'centrist' to the most 'progressive' has said, including in this thread. There hasn't been such an across the board consensus on anything in the Democratic voting base in some time.
Yes. Let's remove him and put Mary Poppins in his place. That will solve everything. Just wiggle your nose and...POOF....all your problems vanish, just like that! Yes, that will do the trick for sure. And yes, I'm just an ignorant asshole. Thank goodness when Mary Poppins comes alone, ignorant assholes like myself will no longer be around to needle you..... 🙄
"Why would someone "negotiate" an outcome and not only vote against it, but denounce it on the floor of the Senate?" I can't believe you need to ask this question. Have you ever heard of "politics" and "political cover?" Can you imagine a revolt like this under Speaker Pelosi? You think the awful eight didn't keep Schumer appraised of their "negotiation"? What has he done to show his disapproval other than make a speech and cast a knowingly meaningless vote? All talk, no action - typical politician. Not typical of a "leader." He has to go - now!
IF, IF this deal goes thru and the traitors actually allow a vote, Schumer can announce to the ignorant rubes that he saved their benefits and paychecks.
I just read that Tim Kaine asked for a '“moratorium on mischief.”' as a condition of his support.
I mean, you couldn't make this up - for one, he thinks the GOP will possibly do anything like this? And, that's what he thinks this is, 'mischief'? This guy is an elected Senator?
Even Bernie Sanders admitted, when asked who should replace Schumer, that no other senator wanted the job due to its difficulty. He did not admit he wanted Schumer gone.
Schumer, apparently has a problem with messaging, as he reveals little, so there is valid criticism there.
I think that your assessment is the best in this stream. They are all culpable. At least one of them should have made a fiery speach about not negotiating with terrorists, at the very least people who are totally untrustworthy. .
Blame the base (and probably a huge percentage of this forum). They wanted Schumer to "fight" from a position of weakness. Never mind they lost last year's election and control of the White House and Congress. This was always going to be the outcome.
You do understand Schumer's "weakness" in this budget vote was that the GOP needed 60 votes, so Schumer's "weakness" WAS THAT HIS CAUCUS WAS NECESSARY. This is what he got? PHHHHHHT.
You do understand that the shutdown fight wasn't politically necessary in the first place, right? Everything that was allegedly on the table could have been addressed after passage of the CR. It was an idiotic decision from the start and this is the logical result.
The government was shut down because Senate Democrats failed to support the CR. It really is all that simple.
But the results may not be so obvious. The Dems are now fighting amongst themselves. That might result in primaries where more liberal ("far left"?) candidates might win but lose the general election. Republicans went through a similar phase with MAGA candidates winning primaries but went down in flames in the general election. And in that scenario, the Left was funding MAGA candidates in the primaries.
Hal, the government was shut down because the GOP leadership didn't sit down to negotiate terms for a CR yes vote. Because their budget plan was to gut health care. But you do you.
The "eight" of the Schumer deal are: one independent (King, from Maine, so not a Dem) and two retiring Dem members of the senate (so not up for re-election) and the others are not running in 2026. So much for your primary threats. Your doomsday scenario of the MAGA kind is a bit fantasy-based, nyet?
I would recommend that everyone who is blaming Schumer listen to The Last Word opening segment for 11/20/2025. Lawrence has a very different perspective, based on having worked in the senate.
As always, Jen, you are spot on! These weak capitulators need to go, as does Chuck Schumer. This is not business-as-usual. We cannot act as if we’re in normal times, because we’re not. This GOP is the worst we’ve ever seen!
Somehow we need to light a fire under prominent activist Democrats to come together and produce a combined plan - kind of a Yalta + Marshall Plan to offer for regaining rebuilding the post tRump United States. It needs to involve our best communicators and offer both analysis and a set of talking points that they can take to voters. Someone like Barack Obama could organize this and shepherd it along. And just like everything else involving the Resistance in these dreadful days, it needs to come from the ground up. We need to be writing not just our Senators and Congressional Reps, but our Blue State Governors, our most effective political operatives, and anyone you think who can help. And the time is now. I am remarkably bad at finding useful email addresses for these people. If someone reading here is good at it, please find as many as you can and post them here. As Robert Reich said recently, "We are the leaders we have been waiting for." edit: added 'regaining'.
If states would legalize recall votes in the future that would wake some of them up from their comfy sleep. We could be rid of people like Schumer & Fetterman. The see themselves ensconced in comfort with little risk in a country with short memories and donors with deep pockets.
Ah, but some people feel that way about AOC. The NYC election is a good example of districts showing their own personalities. All 3 big wins were candidates that read the room. Are we NOT the Big Tent Party? Are we sliding back to purity tests and cutting off our noses to spite our face? We will never be the sheeple of MAGA. Maybe try to be a little more inclusive and fight for your priorities without torching your fellow Dems? It’s a bad look.
That would likely take a Constitutional Amendment, but before this entire situation plays out, we will need a whole new Constitution with Big Sharp Teeth.
Actually, for better or worse (and it's a bit of both), the Constitution is by design very difficult to amend. You need approval by 2/3 of each house of Congress, followed by approval of 3/4 of the states. And if if you count up states, you'll see there are a lot more red than blue ones, although the blue states probably have more population than the red ones (they certainly have more economic output).
Here is the letter I just sent to President Obama:
Mr. President - we have a dearth of organized leadership in The Democratic Party now. You are the most politically active former President in my 71 years and might be able to help. We need someone who commands respect from our party faithful to end this chicken-with-their-heads-off moment and render some order. I think we need to bring together our most passionate, eloquent, and activist Democrats - Members of Congress, Governors, former Cabinet members, and leaders with moral authority. We need a concise statement of principals and talking points. We need money to advertise - to compare and contrast us against the MAGA Cruelty Regime, we need coordinated messaging that gets taken up by modern media outlets and, we need it quickly. I feel like Princess Leia pleading with Obiwan Kenobi, but it is that kind of moment. Our Senate Leadership this week snatched victory from the jaws of defeat. They may be earnest and honest, but they are not good at this. If you can see your way clear to help bring order on our side, out of the chaos, I encourage you to try to do so. Edit: fixed ‘victory from the jaws of defeat’.
I find myself in the odd position of being contrarian to the Contrarian. Despite the appearances of capitulation, I believe that this was a shrewd strategic move. The short-term pain caused by the shutdown, much of it manipulated by the regime, will end. More significantly, the issue of healthcare affordability will be hung around the necks of the GOP from now until next November,
(accidentally posted before I was finished) . . . which the Dems must message daily. “We provided the votes to end this shutdown now because we take your pain seriously, which the GOP does not. We called their bluff.” Collateral benefit: Trump’s Secretary of Congress Johnson can no longer stonewall the swearing in Rep. Grijalva, meaning the Epstein files discharge petition can move forward.
Proud of my Maryland Senators Alsobrooks and Van Hollen for not caving. With more federal employees than any other state except for Virginia, they held the line because they know there is a line that cannot be crossed if they really want to help Americans with affordability.
Thank you Gov. Wes Moore for helping Marylanders too through these multiple crises that Trump and MAGA Republicans have manufactured
I don't know who to trust anymore and who is covering for whom.
I love that Roy Cooper is fighting for Tillis' seat BUT he is also an old school, let's shake hands and reach across the aisle kind of Dem. Better than a rethuglican but we need fighters. The old rulebook is gone if we want to save democracy.
Agreed. At least in the short-to-intermediate term I see the role of the Progressive wing as forcing the center and center-left component of the party to the edge of their comfort zone, and maybe even a bit beyond. That's exactly what they did with Joe Biden.
But my main beef with the wing is that once you leave places like Brooklyn, Bronx, Boston, Burlington and Berkeley, they have yet to convince me that they can win. Oh sure, they can primary out long-serving Democratic incumbents who have gotten too comfortable in the job and lost touch with their already blue districts.
So essentially, they take already blue districts and make them even bluer. When a Progressive captures an open seat formerly held by a member of the GQP, let along defeat a GQP incumbent running for re-election, then I'll become a believer.
I agree with Angie, below. I start from the premise that given the current state of the GQP, the worst Democrat is still head-and-shoulders better than the best Repugnican't, and has been since the GQP purged its moderate wing in the 1990s. Therefore I'll support whichever Democrat I believe has the best chance to win. And in NC, Cooper is a proven winner.
Remember the Reagan quote: "I'd rather get 50% of what I want than 100% of nothing.
You would love Maryland! True blue and a beautiful state too! Been my home for 21 years, Margaret, and every time my wife and I look at leaving, we realize we can’t. Healthcare, especially Johns Hopkins, is tops in the world
The shutdown was truly hurting people and with the Thanksgiving holiday fast approaching, i believe that democrats made their point. They were running into head winds with people suffering. It's easy to play armchair quarterback when your family is not starving or stuck at an airport. Chuck Schumer does need to go, mainly because we need new leadership, but I believe in this case this is the right decision. You can't play politics when people are being hurt.
I agree with you. Republicans are never going to flip on the ACA subsidies. They also showed they just don’t care how many ordinary Americans suffer from SNAP benefits denial, missed paychecks, or flight cancellations. The national parks are getting more damaged every day (there are three in my state.) Keeping the government closed is pointless in the face of such bald callousness. I’d be willing to bet almost all the Contrarians here, including myself, were not much impacted by the long shutdown. Would y’all be shouting in the faces of people who have been impacted in the same way you’re insulting fellow Contrarians who have a different take here?
So you think allowing Healthcare premiums to skyrocket is "playing" politics. Congress is not the playground. Dems snatched defeat from the jaws of victory - no other way to say it. They were making Trump and his enablers put their cruelty on full display every single day. And Americans are not cruel except the cult members. So Dems were winning - bigly. Now they look weak and ineffective because they are. I've never been more disappointed in the party. Never.
People suffer. Those of us suffering the worst in the US are still not suffering to the degree that people in Darfur or Gaza are suffering. As Americans we're too comfortable, too entitled. I'd wager that many who were willing to keep on with the shutdown were people suffering the most from it. Where would we be if the workers of the 1920s and '30s hadn't been willing to strike for long periods, despite what it cost them and their families? Where would we be if young men (and it would have been men) hadn't been willing to go off to fight in WWII--or the Revolutionary War, or the Civil War? There are times when sacrifice is called for.
And the people playing politics while people suffered were the followers of our President Project 25.
You have no right to speak for anyone suffering under the shutdown if you were not one of them, though. It’s easy for people like you to call for sacrifice from other people, and to invoke inaccurate parallels from history. The fact is, we could have called a general strike to put more pressure on Republicans. That would have spread the pain more evenly and showed our determination to prevail on the ACA subsidies issue. Did you call for such a thing?
You actually know nothing about me and what I and my family do or don't suffer. And I have supported the idea of a national strike. I'm not speaking for anyone, just commenting that we in America don't begin to know what deprivation is, not really, not compared with those living in Gaza. Or many other places in the world.
“I'd wager that many who were willing to keep on with the shutdown were people suffering the most from it.” This actually *is* speaking for other people.
Well I am a federal worker family. We went to work without pay. We supported the shutdown. Because we care about healthcare. Because we cared to show solidarity with million of Americans willing to fight for our country, democracy. So how dare you.
I wouldn’t trust Mark Warner. Unless he calls for Schumer‘s resignation. I bet there was a bro deal between him and Kaine for Kaine to take the hit because Warner is up for reelection next year. I don’t trust many supposedly opposed. Mark Warner has been terrible in this fight.
Agreed. At numerous points in my 74 years I have been tasked with herding cats. I'm pausing after yesterday, to consider leaving all the political BS, unsubscribe from all these publications and concentrating on local needs rather than fighting trump alongside a herd of cats.
Don’t give up just because it’s messy! That’s a a ure way to hand our democracy over to the other side. We don’t have to love everything, we just have to keep the tumbleweed moving in the right direction. I love an animated debate. I don’t love a party that sets its own on fire.
It's not that it's messy M, it's a lack of leadership unwilling to fight fire with fire. SAGU-Schumer Always Gives Up. And don't get me started on Jeanne Shaheen. She destroyed the health insurance market in my home state of NH, leaving the state with a single provider, Anthem Blue Cross out of Indianapolis, the most predatory HI we've ever experienced. Leadership like hers and Schumers are pigheaded and old school and they need to be replaced.
local needs are what it is all about and a very worthy place to put your efforts. Before this vote I thought that Dems could use local organizations to help mitigate the terrible toll of the trump regime. This would be a grand statement on both their sentiments and their leadership ability.
Indivisible is based on ‘local groups.’ There are so many of them and they’re easy to find. If you get disgusted with the national level, try the local level. Check out indivisible.org - especially “what’s the plan?” and their plans for primaries in 2026. Please stay involved!
Yes! At this point, part of the reason I subscribe here is because the press may be our last hope. Courageous reporting asking questions and persisting until we get answers--what was the logic here? Actual humans rarely just rub their hands and say "bwahaha!" Much pain will be given and that's all I care about. We need to hear from those limp eight, what they CLAIM to be their reasoning. And keep asking hard questions. Sic 'em, Jen!!
Totally disagree. Warner has been tremendous and has been fighting like hell. I put in a call to.him to urge him to work toward getting rid of Schumer and asked that he consider Chris Murphy as new speaker.
Good morning and thank you! I’m disgusted by the lack of Democratic leadership in our Senate. Step aside now Schumer. You are hurting more than helping.
In other words, the caving senators have given “moderate”—or its cousin label of “centrist”—a bad name.
I have a couple of GOOD names! How do these sound?
Lily-livered
Weak-kneed
Spineless
A boneless chicken breast has more spine than those 8. The worst part is that these 8 agreed to take the fall for a bunch more alleged "Democrats", because either they were retiring or not up for re-election in 2026.
It's time to give the Democratic Party a massive enema to flush out all the poop-- and Schumer should be the first to go. This is a bare-knuckle brawl, and to borrow the Godfather saying "Chuck is not a wartime consigliere." Right of center, centrist, progressive, Democrat, it doesn't matter. What matters is that they have their constituents' interest at heart and are willing to go to the mattresses (another Godfather phrase) for those interests.
Funny, Rubin used that same Godfather quote in Sunday night's video call.
Schumer never should have been chosen as minority leader in the first pace after the 2024 disaster. Who loses a massive battle, then picks than same leader for the next stage?
That's probably where I got the quote from, although I may have used it before Sunday as well as today. But it's true-- Chuck just doesn't have the stomach for a fight, although in his defense I might say that herding Senators is not much easier than herding cats. McConnell was a master of it, but there were GQP Senators that even a tyrant like Mitch couldn't bring to heel. Still, when it comes to keeping the caucus together, McConnell makes Schumer look like bush league.
It will be interesting to see what the Democrats do between now and 2028. Clearly there needs to be a changing of the guard to a new generation, because they're effectively a gerontocracy right now. But they have a lot of tough decisions to make regarding balancing their left and center-left wings (and no matter what the contestants say I believe that the politics of a candidate who can win in Virginia are different from those of a candidate that can win in Massachusetts, and also from a candidate that can win in Georgia or Arizona).
But it reminds me of another Godfather line-- when Clemenza was getting Michael prepped and armed for his meeting with Solozzo, he said something like "it's been about 10 years since the last fight. You gotta have these fights every so often, because they get out the bad blood"
That sort of fight is what the Democrats are going to have over the next few years, and maybe they really do need to have that fight. Let's just hope that nobody's corpse is dumped in the marsh next to JFK airport, at least not literally.
Agree! I’ve been using the ‘not a wartime consigliere’ phrase in reference to Schumer ever since he became minority leader. Absolute failure. Needs to fall on his sword & let someone with the will to fight take his place.
I respectfully disagree. I think this was going to end badly for the Democrats if the government didn't open. It was really starting to hurt many people. And while there is not big victory here -- medical care is still up in the air -- those Democrats who voted to open the government avoided what was becoming a debacle for everyone. Kaine said that there were many other Democrats who also wanted to open the government, and I wonder if this wasn't engineered so that these folks "took one for the team" in order to let the others off the hook. Not a bad strategy. And instead of accusations and criticism, let's figure out how to get the medical care back and defeat the Republicans in 2026 and again in 2028 We need to remind people who actually cared enough about them to make that hard decision and who was partying in Mar a Lago.
There is a famous saying, "Don't let the perfect get in the way of the good." Which is what I think happened here. And now the Republicans are left with a sagging economy and much dissatisfaction that the government closed in the first place. And now they will have to come up with the Health Care Plan -- something they have never been able to do so far. Not so sure it was any kind of win for Trump.
Sharing another perspective on the vote to end the government shutdown. People who are angry at the senators can afford to be angry because they had the money to feed their families. For the 42 million, and the businesses that depend on SNAP, and federal workers, and people who have to travel, and everyone else who benefits from the multiplier effect of the federal government, the compromise is a relief. You're giving the administration the message - "they caved”, rather than the better message “they cared!” When both the administration and the opposition party want to “burn it all down” and imperil the lives of millions, someone has to be the adult in the room. Democrats see the harm inflicted on all U.S. residents, the economy, businesses, the rule of law, and are making the hard, unpopular decisions to stop the damage. I support their courage in taking this step.
If that's true, then why did the Democrats not support the bill to begin with? They could have predicted it would be a long pull and people would get hurt. So they put their feet in the river and got scared half-way through? Why did they even start if they were gonna cave?
I understand your viewpoint and it has validity. However, where do you get your health insurance? If it's Medicare or through your employer, you don't really have a dog in this fight. Dems said they wouldn't agree to anything without fixing that problem. But they did. So what voter should believe them going forward when they say "we are going to fight for you"? Weakness does not lead to strength.
Keith, I understand completely, we were on the ACA until this year, when we were old enough to qualify for Medicare. So yes, I understand the subsidies are critical. They did fight, for six weeks. But "fighting to the death" isn't productive. Now they can fight for health care, including leading the charge on single payer or universal care.
Rubin has a point, but still, there is no way anyone from the progressive wing of the Democratic Party would have done this.
It's also not really clear who truly is supporting this or not...after all, Schumer has said he is against it, but it's highly unlikely he wasn't at least aware of this, and likely he helped engineer it.
Still, ok, let's separate the fighters from the cavers, works for me.
NOT A DEAL.... takes both houses of Congress. Terms can be renegotiated.
Rep. Brian Fitzpatrick (R-Pa.): Co-sponsored bipartisan legislation to extend the Obamacare subsidies for a year, indicating an openness to compromise.
Rep. Jeff Hurd (R-Colo.): Has voiced concern over the "dramatic increases" in premiums his constituents would face without the subsidies and was one of more than a dozen House Republicans to sign a letter calling for their preservation.
Rep. Jen Kiggans (R-Va.): The main sponsor of a bill to extend the subsidies for a year.
It will bring the House back to session. Jeffries says he'll hold the line. May lead to further negotiations.
Hopefully it'll be Epstein time. The most recent revelations involve money laudering allegations.
I keep posting. According to Congressman Eric Swalwell (D-CA) Trumpepstein may cause an "Epstein bomb" causing over 100 Republican members to "jailbreak" from Trump.
“ takes both houses of Congress. Terms can be renegotiated”
I have no faith that anything can be renegotiated in the House, as its Speaker takes his marching orders directly from Donald Trump, who does not renegotiate anything that is not to his personal benefit.
And, he lies. All the time. He cannot be trusted. The people who follow him, and his lies, cannot be trusted.
I missed the Jerry Weiss scenario that you were referring to; the articles I saw in that substack were older, and were referring to a triple impeachment and conviction of the president, vice president and speaker of the house. Not a very promising scenario.
We have an opportunity to confront MAGA Congress members up close and personal. Many of them have a majority Dem constiuency. Have donors who object to Trump. Some of us have actually worked with some of them.
I agree with pretty much everything Rubin says here. I don't 100% agree about her take on' moderates' vs 'progressives' (there is simply no way anyone from the progressive wing of the Democrats would have went along with this capitulation) but her general point about fighters vs cavers is a good one, and one voters should stick to.
I also agree with her that its time for Schumer to go. People like Daniel here that seem to think we need to just support whatever Dem is in office for whatever reason is silly, especially at this point.
Schumer never should have been chosen and Senate minority leader after the 2024 debacle..it didn't even make any sense to re elect a leader that led such a staggering loss...I have been calling for his removal in thee pages for months now, specially after his earlier budget cave in this past spring.
As a New Yorker, I am still smarting from Schumer's refusal to back the Democratic nominee for mayor, who has picked in a landslide vote in the primary....Schumer had a chance to get some goodwill from millions of voters, and chose not to.
I actually agree with her that the filibuster at least needs to be re examined, which is kind of ironic, since the chance of removing the filibuster is likely one of the reason Schumer colluded with these Dems to cave.
It's also a bit ironic that, while Rubin is defending 'moderates' or 'centrists' (maybe she is right that we can stop using these labels) - she then outlines very progressive positions, like 'comprehensive voting right bill, major Supreme Court reform, admission of D.C. as a state' - which I agree with 100%.
So call it what you will-- but the Dems need true strong fearless leadership now more than ever.
The American people had the opportunity to stand up and back the Democrats by, say, work slowdowns, or going out and blocking streets the way the French have, and they did not. That says it all. This is not a failure of the Democratic Senators, this is a failure of the anti-authoritarian movement in America. Or at least, it obviously isn't ready to go to the mat yet. Not enough Americans care enough about losing their democracy. The Senators can't do it by themselves.
Too far, Jen, it’s not this simple and we have to be able to respect each other around our disagreements. Understand completely the rage and disappointment, agree, but also understand the assessment of others that Trump has no limits to the pain he’s willing to inflict on people to get his way and that they felt they had to do something. Let’s pull together and make the best we can of this very bad situation. We didn’t lose everything, there’s plenty to show what scum they are and bring it forcefully to the voters in the next steps. We can’t let them win by tearing us apart, please. Rosemary
Did anyone watch Lawrence O'Donnell last night? He had different take on this mess. And HCR's Letter this morning stresses that there are a lot of balls now in the air (although none of the balls are Republican's).
Yes, I did, I need to rewatch it. There was a lot to be thinking about not sure if I agree with it, but I also need to rewatch it. See if he has any additional articles on this.
Seriously disagree with you. The shutdown strategy was doomed from the beginning and the Democratic Party got as much as it was going to get out of it on Election Day. Rather than risking having public sentiment switch to blaming Democrats, the party (and collectively) chose the senators who would break with the party to end the shutdown.
On another level, while I've subscribed to the Contrarian in order to oppose Trump, I'm seriously thinking of no longer subscribing. Like a lot of progressives (such as AOC), this column indicates you're living in a fantasy world where a majority of voters agree with you. But, they don't. It's that kind of fantasy thinking that put Trump back in the White House.
Couldn’t agree more. Knee-jerk response needs a little time to marinate in the possibility that more is afoot than “caving”. I do love the passion and fire of progressives, but why do they default to “burn it down, throw them out” when they don’t get their way? We need more Democrats not fewer if we are going to salvage this admin’s hot mess. How about a reasoned rebuttal instead of throwing people under the bus?
Blame Schumer. He negotiated this outcome. Let's get a new senate minority leader out of it and it will be a win at some level.
Amen! And other senators are complicit too. They are just taking cover behind the awful eight! Any dem senator who doesn’t publicly demand that Schumer step down should be considered complicit. https://open.substack.com/pub/ezralevin/p/democratic-leaders-failed-us-again?r=4pu09s&utm_medium=ios
Any Dem Senator who doesn't insist that their colleagues never negotiate with a terrorist is as weak as the aweful right.
The aweful eight
I hope you meant “awful” in both cases!?
I've heard elsewhere that the eight were just providing cover for many more who didn't want to go public. But I don't understand the reasoning, the hypocrisy, of believing that the fight has been lost but letting others sign the surrender.
As someone once said, "These proceedings are closed."
How do you know what the outcome will be? Ans YOU DON'T.
Pick on MAGA.
I can “pick on” whomever I like, but thank you.
I do blame the GOP for all of this last decade. They have caved. I don’t want to be a party to caving to a violent pedophile extortionist. Gee, forgive me my standards.
You are not alone! ❤️❤️
The fix was in. You can try to convince me that Schumer was not in on the deal. His whip (not running in 2026) was a leader in the GOP CR passing. Jeanne Shaheen is also not running. Tim Kaine was safe. What a tangled subterfuge. https://hotbuttons.substack.com/p/pieces-of-8-shit?r=3m1bs
If MAGA wants to divide us this is the kind of stuff they do. They even teach their operatives how to do it.
The Dems are willingly dirtying themselves in GOP plots. No one forced them to cave again & again & again. They know the outcome. They know who will be hurt. They understood what they were doing to us which is why they picked 8 safe senators. They are not leaders. They are spineless traitors to democracy. And probably received nice big checks for their votes. Self-serving assholes need to be kicked to the curb. They are every bit as culpable in destroying democracy.
You're absolutely right-- everyone knew that the Democratic Senators who caved would face a firestorm of criticism, so they found 8 Senators who either were planning to retire or didn't have to face their furious constituents for at least 3 years and got those 8 to "volunteer to take the gaspipe for the whole group"
You (and I)don't know what we don't know.
I still think we wuz robbed. What is happening with the Pennsylvania election challenge? Did Trump admit that Musk stiole Pennsylvania?
But we sure DO know what we see in front of our eyes. Open yours. Blind obedience is what the repugs do. We will never be blindly obedient to bad behavior no matter the color of your hat. That is exactly how we got here and why millions did not bother to vote because in their minds there is no difference between the 2 parties. They aren't watching the every day minutia. They just see 2 parties that never put their lives first.
Pennsylvania challenge? More dreams.
To all Rebups reveling in their Schadenfreude over Dems recent display of dysfunction; 'harm joy' lasts only as long as your bottle of dopamine...the hangover of hatred will be your undoing.
MAGA had nothing to do with the aweful eight caving.
You called me a 'plant' yesterday for saying what every in this thread is saying now.
I am starting to think you are the 'plant' from Schumer's office, or maybe from the DNC.
NY is NOT the center of the universe. I once worked there. All politics is (and are) local.
It's true that I support the Dem Party. I'm a Yellow Dog Democrat.
You don't.
And it's also true that you probably don't have any influence over independents and even some Rep outliers who we can bring into the anti-MAGA fight.
We need a big tent not a pup tent.
Again, wtf are you even talking about?
In this case the Democrats themselves proved to be divided.
He was in on it. he just thought he could fool us. Another sign of a weak, useless impotent chicken.
Now is exactly the time to risk a leadership challenge because there is a year until the next election and little to lose. What's clear is that we are already divided and it would be foolish not to take a shot at getting new leadership that is able to unite us.
Oy. All politics is (and are) local. The Congressional leaders are elected by their peers, i.e. others who have run for public office and were elected from their parochial districts. .
They are not DNC officials.
Oh please. You been living under a rock? You think the Senate majority GOP is going to allow a vote that saves healthcare? And then the majority GOP House will also do what's right? Are you related to Schumer?
Common sense tells you what the outcome will be.
Which is: The Democrats have no leadership and are being befloded .
Nor do you.
He didn't negotiate diddly-squat. Why do you spout stuff you know absolutely nothing about, that makes absolutely no sense? Why would someone "negotiate" an outcome and not only vote against it, but denounce it on the floor of the Senate?
I will never figure out this bloodlust for the circular firing squad as an antidote to all our problems. It's just loony-tunes.
It is obvious that Schumer at least knew what was happening, and likely helped engineer it. It's beyond a coincidence that every member of this group of Senators taking the fall are all either retiring or not running in 2026.
One of them is the Democratic whip and the No. 2-ranking member of the Senate Democratic leadership, Dick Durbin. IT is impossible to believe that Schumer had nothing to do with this.
It is also obvious that Schumer denying it is nothing more than political theater.
But if somehow he had no idea, then he is the most out of touch, feckless minority leader ever...either way, he needs to go.
There's is nothing whatsoever 'circular' about the firing squad...all knives and muskets are pointed in one direction...
Exactly!!! There was something very choreographed about this whole thing. It could not have happened without Shumer's participation. He has managed to grab defeat from the jaws of victory.
For the second time, I agree with you. Anyone who thinks Schumer didn't at least know about it, or at most engineered it, must have "just come down with the last shower" to use an Australian saying (equivalent to the American saying "is wet behind the ears")
haha - maybe the third time (I also thought the Godfather quote was fitting)
"and likely helped engineer it." ??? Is that what your Magic 8 ball told you this morning?
What is obvious is that the shutdown caused tremendous pain to many, thanks to the cruelty of the Republican Party.
....you seem to forget, or not understand, that the Democrats called for the shutdown by not caving to GOP demands....which caused suffering....and then they caved, gaining absolutely nothing for the suffering., while losing all credibility and giving the GOP exactly zero reason to ever negotiate with the Dems gain.
You are naive to the point of absurdity. Really.
There are two options - Schumer did know to some extent, or he didn't. Both cases are grounds for his removal as leader. It is really that simple, as virtually every supporter of the Democratic Party besides you, from the most 'centrist' to the most 'progressive' has said, including in this thread. There hasn't been such an across the board consensus on anything in the Democratic voting base in some time.
Yes. Let's remove him and put Mary Poppins in his place. That will solve everything. Just wiggle your nose and...POOF....all your problems vanish, just like that! Yes, that will do the trick for sure. And yes, I'm just an ignorant asshole. Thank goodness when Mary Poppins comes alone, ignorant assholes like myself will no longer be around to needle you..... 🙄
"Why would someone "negotiate" an outcome and not only vote against it, but denounce it on the floor of the Senate?" I can't believe you need to ask this question. Have you ever heard of "politics" and "political cover?" Can you imagine a revolt like this under Speaker Pelosi? You think the awful eight didn't keep Schumer appraised of their "negotiation"? What has he done to show his disapproval other than make a speech and cast a knowingly meaningless vote? All talk, no action - typical politician. Not typical of a "leader." He has to go - now!
Why would someone "negotiate" an outcome and not only vote against it?
Please send your political naivety off to Neverland and become a big boy. Because he sold the rest of us out for political convenience.
And how does this "convenience" him, pray tell?
You don't make a lick of sense. You think assuming white is really black makes you...what, smart, insightful, all-knowing? I don't get it.
IF, IF this deal goes thru and the traitors actually allow a vote, Schumer can announce to the ignorant rubes that he saved their benefits and paychecks.
Like you said, he got to whip enough votes so he could posture as a "no."
Schumer knows he is in trouble. This was all smokescreen. Like it or not. Open your eyes.
Why would he do those things? It’s called “plausible deniability.” In this case it’s very implausible deniability.
I just read that Tim Kaine asked for a '“moratorium on mischief.”' as a condition of his support.
I mean, you couldn't make this up - for one, he thinks the GOP will possibly do anything like this? And, that's what he thinks this is, 'mischief'? This guy is an elected Senator?
Even Bernie Sanders admitted, when asked who should replace Schumer, that no other senator wanted the job due to its difficulty. He did not admit he wanted Schumer gone.
Schumer, apparently has a problem with messaging, as he reveals little, so there is valid criticism there.
They are too spineless to kick him out. We need new blood that comes with attached balls and spines.
They are all culpable. Schumer can't force them to do anything. Not letting them off the hook.
I think that your assessment is the best in this stream. They are all culpable. At least one of them should have made a fiery speach about not negotiating with terrorists, at the very least people who are totally untrustworthy. .
AOC can challenge him on the primary.
"Blame Schumer. He negotiated this outcome."
Blame the base (and probably a huge percentage of this forum). They wanted Schumer to "fight" from a position of weakness. Never mind they lost last year's election and control of the White House and Congress. This was always going to be the outcome.
You do understand Schumer's "weakness" in this budget vote was that the GOP needed 60 votes, so Schumer's "weakness" WAS THAT HIS CAUCUS WAS NECESSARY. This is what he got? PHHHHHHT.
You do understand that the shutdown fight wasn't politically necessary in the first place, right? Everything that was allegedly on the table could have been addressed after passage of the CR. It was an idiotic decision from the start and this is the logical result.
Really? And so who shut down the government, Hal?
It's all so simple, isn't it.
The government was shut down because Senate Democrats failed to support the CR. It really is all that simple.
But the results may not be so obvious. The Dems are now fighting amongst themselves. That might result in primaries where more liberal ("far left"?) candidates might win but lose the general election. Republicans went through a similar phase with MAGA candidates winning primaries but went down in flames in the general election. And in that scenario, the Left was funding MAGA candidates in the primaries.
Hal, the government was shut down because the GOP leadership didn't sit down to negotiate terms for a CR yes vote. Because their budget plan was to gut health care. But you do you.
The "eight" of the Schumer deal are: one independent (King, from Maine, so not a Dem) and two retiring Dem members of the senate (so not up for re-election) and the others are not running in 2026. So much for your primary threats. Your doomsday scenario of the MAGA kind is a bit fantasy-based, nyet?
I would recommend that everyone who is blaming Schumer listen to The Last Word opening segment for 11/20/2025. Lawrence has a very different perspective, based on having worked in the senate.
As always, Jen, you are spot on! These weak capitulators need to go, as does Chuck Schumer. This is not business-as-usual. We cannot act as if we’re in normal times, because we’re not. This GOP is the worst we’ve ever seen!
Somehow we need to light a fire under prominent activist Democrats to come together and produce a combined plan - kind of a Yalta + Marshall Plan to offer for regaining rebuilding the post tRump United States. It needs to involve our best communicators and offer both analysis and a set of talking points that they can take to voters. Someone like Barack Obama could organize this and shepherd it along. And just like everything else involving the Resistance in these dreadful days, it needs to come from the ground up. We need to be writing not just our Senators and Congressional Reps, but our Blue State Governors, our most effective political operatives, and anyone you think who can help. And the time is now. I am remarkably bad at finding useful email addresses for these people. If someone reading here is good at it, please find as many as you can and post them here. As Robert Reich said recently, "We are the leaders we have been waiting for." edit: added 'regaining'.
If states would legalize recall votes in the future that would wake some of them up from their comfy sleep. We could be rid of people like Schumer & Fetterman. The see themselves ensconced in comfort with little risk in a country with short memories and donors with deep pockets.
Ah, but some people feel that way about AOC. The NYC election is a good example of districts showing their own personalities. All 3 big wins were candidates that read the room. Are we NOT the Big Tent Party? Are we sliding back to purity tests and cutting off our noses to spite our face? We will never be the sheeple of MAGA. Maybe try to be a little more inclusive and fight for your priorities without torching your fellow Dems? It’s a bad look.
That would likely take a Constitutional Amendment, but before this entire situation plays out, we will need a whole new Constitution with Big Sharp Teeth.
the flaws of the constitution have been pointed out. it will be easy to amend it once true patriots are back in charge
Actually, for better or worse (and it's a bit of both), the Constitution is by design very difficult to amend. You need approval by 2/3 of each house of Congress, followed by approval of 3/4 of the states. And if if you count up states, you'll see there are a lot more red than blue ones, although the blue states probably have more population than the red ones (they certainly have more economic output).
so why are the minority idiots in charge ?
electoral college should be first to go
It still has a lot of hoops to jump through.
Here is the letter I just sent to President Obama:
Mr. President - we have a dearth of organized leadership in The Democratic Party now. You are the most politically active former President in my 71 years and might be able to help. We need someone who commands respect from our party faithful to end this chicken-with-their-heads-off moment and render some order. I think we need to bring together our most passionate, eloquent, and activist Democrats - Members of Congress, Governors, former Cabinet members, and leaders with moral authority. We need a concise statement of principals and talking points. We need money to advertise - to compare and contrast us against the MAGA Cruelty Regime, we need coordinated messaging that gets taken up by modern media outlets and, we need it quickly. I feel like Princess Leia pleading with Obiwan Kenobi, but it is that kind of moment. Our Senate Leadership this week snatched victory from the jaws of defeat. They may be earnest and honest, but they are not good at this. If you can see your way clear to help bring order on our side, out of the chaos, I encourage you to try to do so. Edit: fixed ‘victory from the jaws of defeat’.
Don't you mean "snatched defeat from the jaws of victory"? It's hard to say that the Democratic leadership won anything!
You are right. My bad!
I find myself in the odd position of being contrarian to the Contrarian. Despite the appearances of capitulation, I believe that this was a shrewd strategic move. The short-term pain caused by the shutdown, much of it manipulated by the regime, will end. More significantly, the issue of healthcare affordability will be hung around the necks of the GOP from now until next November,
I agree
(accidentally posted before I was finished) . . . which the Dems must message daily. “We provided the votes to end this shutdown now because we take your pain seriously, which the GOP does not. We called their bluff.” Collateral benefit: Trump’s Secretary of Congress Johnson can no longer stonewall the swearing in Rep. Grijalva, meaning the Epstein files discharge petition can move forward.
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I disagree
Proud of my Maryland Senators Alsobrooks and Van Hollen for not caving. With more federal employees than any other state except for Virginia, they held the line because they know there is a line that cannot be crossed if they really want to help Americans with affordability.
Thank you Gov. Wes Moore for helping Marylanders too through these multiple crises that Trump and MAGA Republicans have manufactured
I don't know who to trust anymore and who is covering for whom.
I love that Roy Cooper is fighting for Tillis' seat BUT he is also an old school, let's shake hands and reach across the aisle kind of Dem. Better than a rethuglican but we need fighters. The old rulebook is gone if we want to save democracy.
He’s the kind of Dem that can win in NC. We aren’t going to get progressive/left Dems in a lot of the country. Just the way it is.
Agreed. At least in the short-to-intermediate term I see the role of the Progressive wing as forcing the center and center-left component of the party to the edge of their comfort zone, and maybe even a bit beyond. That's exactly what they did with Joe Biden.
But my main beef with the wing is that once you leave places like Brooklyn, Bronx, Boston, Burlington and Berkeley, they have yet to convince me that they can win. Oh sure, they can primary out long-serving Democratic incumbents who have gotten too comfortable in the job and lost touch with their already blue districts.
So essentially, they take already blue districts and make them even bluer. When a Progressive captures an open seat formerly held by a member of the GQP, let along defeat a GQP incumbent running for re-election, then I'll become a believer.
I agree with Angie, below. I start from the premise that given the current state of the GQP, the worst Democrat is still head-and-shoulders better than the best Repugnican't, and has been since the GQP purged its moderate wing in the 1990s. Therefore I'll support whichever Democrat I believe has the best chance to win. And in NC, Cooper is a proven winner.
Remember the Reagan quote: "I'd rather get 50% of what I want than 100% of nothing.
I wish I could move from PA to Maryland. My senators suck!
You would love Maryland! True blue and a beautiful state too! Been my home for 21 years, Margaret, and every time my wife and I look at leaving, we realize we can’t. Healthcare, especially Johns Hopkins, is tops in the world
I live close enough to know that you are right. Great State!
"Wet Noodle" Democrat. I like it! Tim Kaine (one of my Senators) is a Wet Noodle.
Wet noodle is being kind. I have other choice words for him.
you mean like "ball-less wonder"?
And for the women? Hmmm
The shutdown was truly hurting people and with the Thanksgiving holiday fast approaching, i believe that democrats made their point. They were running into head winds with people suffering. It's easy to play armchair quarterback when your family is not starving or stuck at an airport. Chuck Schumer does need to go, mainly because we need new leadership, but I believe in this case this is the right decision. You can't play politics when people are being hurt.
I agree with you. Republicans are never going to flip on the ACA subsidies. They also showed they just don’t care how many ordinary Americans suffer from SNAP benefits denial, missed paychecks, or flight cancellations. The national parks are getting more damaged every day (there are three in my state.) Keeping the government closed is pointless in the face of such bald callousness. I’d be willing to bet almost all the Contrarians here, including myself, were not much impacted by the long shutdown. Would y’all be shouting in the faces of people who have been impacted in the same way you’re insulting fellow Contrarians who have a different take here?
So you think allowing Healthcare premiums to skyrocket is "playing" politics. Congress is not the playground. Dems snatched defeat from the jaws of victory - no other way to say it. They were making Trump and his enablers put their cruelty on full display every single day. And Americans are not cruel except the cult members. So Dems were winning - bigly. Now they look weak and ineffective because they are. I've never been more disappointed in the party. Never.
People suffer. Those of us suffering the worst in the US are still not suffering to the degree that people in Darfur or Gaza are suffering. As Americans we're too comfortable, too entitled. I'd wager that many who were willing to keep on with the shutdown were people suffering the most from it. Where would we be if the workers of the 1920s and '30s hadn't been willing to strike for long periods, despite what it cost them and their families? Where would we be if young men (and it would have been men) hadn't been willing to go off to fight in WWII--or the Revolutionary War, or the Civil War? There are times when sacrifice is called for.
And the people playing politics while people suffered were the followers of our President Project 25.
You have no right to speak for anyone suffering under the shutdown if you were not one of them, though. It’s easy for people like you to call for sacrifice from other people, and to invoke inaccurate parallels from history. The fact is, we could have called a general strike to put more pressure on Republicans. That would have spread the pain more evenly and showed our determination to prevail on the ACA subsidies issue. Did you call for such a thing?
You actually know nothing about me and what I and my family do or don't suffer. And I have supported the idea of a national strike. I'm not speaking for anyone, just commenting that we in America don't begin to know what deprivation is, not really, not compared with those living in Gaza. Or many other places in the world.
“I'd wager that many who were willing to keep on with the shutdown were people suffering the most from it.” This actually *is* speaking for other people.
Well I am a federal worker family. We went to work without pay. We supported the shutdown. Because we care about healthcare. Because we cared to show solidarity with million of Americans willing to fight for our country, democracy. So how dare you.
I’m sorry for what the Republicans did to the federal workforce.
Also sorry. Thx
I wouldn’t trust Mark Warner. Unless he calls for Schumer‘s resignation. I bet there was a bro deal between him and Kaine for Kaine to take the hit because Warner is up for reelection next year. I don’t trust many supposedly opposed. Mark Warner has been terrible in this fight.
Dems are't the enemy. Pick on MAGA.
They are when they are the leadership, hold the cards and then cave Daniel.
You (and I) often don't know what we don't know. Hedrding cats isn't easy.
It could be that it will work out to our benefit.
Agreed. At numerous points in my 74 years I have been tasked with herding cats. I'm pausing after yesterday, to consider leaving all the political BS, unsubscribe from all these publications and concentrating on local needs rather than fighting trump alongside a herd of cats.
Don’t give up just because it’s messy! That’s a a ure way to hand our democracy over to the other side. We don’t have to love everything, we just have to keep the tumbleweed moving in the right direction. I love an animated debate. I don’t love a party that sets its own on fire.
It's not that it's messy M, it's a lack of leadership unwilling to fight fire with fire. SAGU-Schumer Always Gives Up. And don't get me started on Jeanne Shaheen. She destroyed the health insurance market in my home state of NH, leaving the state with a single provider, Anthem Blue Cross out of Indianapolis, the most predatory HI we've ever experienced. Leadership like hers and Schumers are pigheaded and old school and they need to be replaced.
local needs are what it is all about and a very worthy place to put your efforts. Before this vote I thought that Dems could use local organizations to help mitigate the terrible toll of the trump regime. This would be a grand statement on both their sentiments and their leadership ability.
Thanks Terry. It would have been a grand statement for sure. Unfortunately, they made a not so grand statement yesterday.
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I am curious if Rubin will directly confront Jacky Rosen, who has been a guest of hers on The Contrarian several times.
Good point. I would say Rosen should be given the opportunity to be interviewed when Jen opposes what she is doing, as well as when she supports it.
Yes! At this point, part of the reason I subscribe here is because the press may be our last hope. Courageous reporting asking questions and persisting until we get answers--what was the logic here? Actual humans rarely just rub their hands and say "bwahaha!" Much pain will be given and that's all I care about. We need to hear from those limp eight, what they CLAIM to be their reasoning. And keep asking hard questions. Sic 'em, Jen!!
Totally disagree. Warner has been tremendous and has been fighting like hell. I put in a call to.him to urge him to work toward getting rid of Schumer and asked that he consider Chris Murphy as new speaker.
I said the same to both of my senators.
Exactly. We don't know who we can trust anymore and that is a problem. They are all swimming in the toxic stew.
Good morning and thank you! I’m disgusted by the lack of Democratic leadership in our Senate. Step aside now Schumer. You are hurting more than helping.
According to Bernie sanders, no,other democratic senator wants that job, due to its difficulty. He couldn’t name one replacement.
In other words, the caving senators have given “moderate”—or its cousin label of “centrist”—a bad name.
I have a couple of GOOD names! How do these sound?
Lily-livered
Weak-kneed
Spineless
A boneless chicken breast has more spine than those 8. The worst part is that these 8 agreed to take the fall for a bunch more alleged "Democrats", because either they were retiring or not up for re-election in 2026.
It's time to give the Democratic Party a massive enema to flush out all the poop-- and Schumer should be the first to go. This is a bare-knuckle brawl, and to borrow the Godfather saying "Chuck is not a wartime consigliere." Right of center, centrist, progressive, Democrat, it doesn't matter. What matters is that they have their constituents' interest at heart and are willing to go to the mattresses (another Godfather phrase) for those interests.
Funny, Rubin used that same Godfather quote in Sunday night's video call.
Schumer never should have been chosen as minority leader in the first pace after the 2024 disaster. Who loses a massive battle, then picks than same leader for the next stage?
That's probably where I got the quote from, although I may have used it before Sunday as well as today. But it's true-- Chuck just doesn't have the stomach for a fight, although in his defense I might say that herding Senators is not much easier than herding cats. McConnell was a master of it, but there were GQP Senators that even a tyrant like Mitch couldn't bring to heel. Still, when it comes to keeping the caucus together, McConnell makes Schumer look like bush league.
It will be interesting to see what the Democrats do between now and 2028. Clearly there needs to be a changing of the guard to a new generation, because they're effectively a gerontocracy right now. But they have a lot of tough decisions to make regarding balancing their left and center-left wings (and no matter what the contestants say I believe that the politics of a candidate who can win in Virginia are different from those of a candidate that can win in Massachusetts, and also from a candidate that can win in Georgia or Arizona).
But it reminds me of another Godfather line-- when Clemenza was getting Michael prepped and armed for his meeting with Solozzo, he said something like "it's been about 10 years since the last fight. You gotta have these fights every so often, because they get out the bad blood"
That sort of fight is what the Democrats are going to have over the next few years, and maybe they really do need to have that fight. Let's just hope that nobody's corpse is dumped in the marsh next to JFK airport, at least not literally.
Agree! I’ve been using the ‘not a wartime consigliere’ phrase in reference to Schumer ever since he became minority leader. Absolute failure. Needs to fall on his sword & let someone with the will to fight take his place.
DACO (Dem who Always Chickens Out)
Wow. Exactly!
I respectfully disagree. I think this was going to end badly for the Democrats if the government didn't open. It was really starting to hurt many people. And while there is not big victory here -- medical care is still up in the air -- those Democrats who voted to open the government avoided what was becoming a debacle for everyone. Kaine said that there were many other Democrats who also wanted to open the government, and I wonder if this wasn't engineered so that these folks "took one for the team" in order to let the others off the hook. Not a bad strategy. And instead of accusations and criticism, let's figure out how to get the medical care back and defeat the Republicans in 2026 and again in 2028 We need to remind people who actually cared enough about them to make that hard decision and who was partying in Mar a Lago.
And it's still going to end badly for the Democrats.
Why? How come?
This president was running scared, thinking the Dems might be ready to fight. Now he knows they will capitulate no matter what edge they seem to have.
There is a famous saying, "Don't let the perfect get in the way of the good." Which is what I think happened here. And now the Republicans are left with a sagging economy and much dissatisfaction that the government closed in the first place. And now they will have to come up with the Health Care Plan -- something they have never been able to do so far. Not so sure it was any kind of win for Trump.
Sharing another perspective on the vote to end the government shutdown. People who are angry at the senators can afford to be angry because they had the money to feed their families. For the 42 million, and the businesses that depend on SNAP, and federal workers, and people who have to travel, and everyone else who benefits from the multiplier effect of the federal government, the compromise is a relief. You're giving the administration the message - "they caved”, rather than the better message “they cared!” When both the administration and the opposition party want to “burn it all down” and imperil the lives of millions, someone has to be the adult in the room. Democrats see the harm inflicted on all U.S. residents, the economy, businesses, the rule of law, and are making the hard, unpopular decisions to stop the damage. I support their courage in taking this step.
If that's true, then why did the Democrats not support the bill to begin with? They could have predicted it would be a long pull and people would get hurt. So they put their feet in the river and got scared half-way through? Why did they even start if they were gonna cave?
Valid perspective.
I understand your viewpoint and it has validity. However, where do you get your health insurance? If it's Medicare or through your employer, you don't really have a dog in this fight. Dems said they wouldn't agree to anything without fixing that problem. But they did. So what voter should believe them going forward when they say "we are going to fight for you"? Weakness does not lead to strength.
Keith, I understand completely, we were on the ACA until this year, when we were old enough to qualify for Medicare. So yes, I understand the subsidies are critical. They did fight, for six weeks. But "fighting to the death" isn't productive. Now they can fight for health care, including leading the charge on single payer or universal care.
"Fighting to the death isn't productive..." ?? On this Veterans' Day, tell that to the soldiers killed in WWII so Hitler would be stopped.
Rubin has a point, but still, there is no way anyone from the progressive wing of the Democratic Party would have done this.
It's also not really clear who truly is supporting this or not...after all, Schumer has said he is against it, but it's highly unlikely he wasn't at least aware of this, and likely he helped engineer it.
Still, ok, let's separate the fighters from the cavers, works for me.
NOT A DEAL.... takes both houses of Congress. Terms can be renegotiated.
Rep. Brian Fitzpatrick (R-Pa.): Co-sponsored bipartisan legislation to extend the Obamacare subsidies for a year, indicating an openness to compromise.
Rep. Jeff Hurd (R-Colo.): Has voiced concern over the "dramatic increases" in premiums his constituents would face without the subsidies and was one of more than a dozen House Republicans to sign a letter calling for their preservation.
Rep. Jen Kiggans (R-Va.): The main sponsor of a bill to extend the subsidies for a year.
It will bring the House back to session. Jeffries says he'll hold the line. May lead to further negotiations.
Hopefully it'll be Epstein time. The most recent revelations involve money laudering allegations.
Many Congressional Republicans privately admit Trump is nuts. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RNzVt7q0W5A
I keep posting. According to Congressman Eric Swalwell (D-CA) Trumpepstein may cause an "Epstein bomb" causing over 100 Republican members to "jailbreak" from Trump.
Massive Congressional visits November 18.
https://www.instagram.com/flare.usa/p/DP_mdOyjdiG/
Visit CongressionalRepublicans.
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I think that if we play our cards right, many can be convinced by the election outcome to come forward.
“ takes both houses of Congress. Terms can be renegotiated”
I have no faith that anything can be renegotiated in the House, as its Speaker takes his marching orders directly from Donald Trump, who does not renegotiate anything that is not to his personal benefit.
And, he lies. All the time. He cannot be trusted. The people who follow him, and his lies, cannot be trusted.
That doesn't mean we give up. In fact that means we need to fight harder, and to me that means confront them personally.
Procedurally, House rules could flip everything. Check out the Jerry Weiss scenario. https://jerryweiss.substack.com/
Agreed on not giving up.
I missed the Jerry Weiss scenario that you were referring to; the articles I saw in that substack were older, and were referring to a triple impeachment and conviction of the president, vice president and speaker of the house. Not a very promising scenario.
Your cut and paste from yesterday isn't any more relevant today than it was yesterday.
We have an opportunity to confront MAGA Congress members up close and personal. Many of them have a majority Dem constiuency. Have donors who object to Trump. Some of us have actually worked with some of them.
Wonderful. That has worked very well so far. Your faith in the 'Epstein bomb' is near comical at this point.
What is your suggestion, then?
I agree with pretty much everything Rubin says here. I don't 100% agree about her take on' moderates' vs 'progressives' (there is simply no way anyone from the progressive wing of the Democrats would have went along with this capitulation) but her general point about fighters vs cavers is a good one, and one voters should stick to.
I also agree with her that its time for Schumer to go. People like Daniel here that seem to think we need to just support whatever Dem is in office for whatever reason is silly, especially at this point.
Schumer never should have been chosen and Senate minority leader after the 2024 debacle..it didn't even make any sense to re elect a leader that led such a staggering loss...I have been calling for his removal in thee pages for months now, specially after his earlier budget cave in this past spring.
As a New Yorker, I am still smarting from Schumer's refusal to back the Democratic nominee for mayor, who has picked in a landslide vote in the primary....Schumer had a chance to get some goodwill from millions of voters, and chose not to.
I actually agree with her that the filibuster at least needs to be re examined, which is kind of ironic, since the chance of removing the filibuster is likely one of the reason Schumer colluded with these Dems to cave.
It's also a bit ironic that, while Rubin is defending 'moderates' or 'centrists' (maybe she is right that we can stop using these labels) - she then outlines very progressive positions, like 'comprehensive voting right bill, major Supreme Court reform, admission of D.C. as a state' - which I agree with 100%.
So call it what you will-- but the Dems need true strong fearless leadership now more than ever.
The American people had the opportunity to stand up and back the Democrats by, say, work slowdowns, or going out and blocking streets the way the French have, and they did not. That says it all. This is not a failure of the Democratic Senators, this is a failure of the anti-authoritarian movement in America. Or at least, it obviously isn't ready to go to the mat yet. Not enough Americans care enough about losing their democracy. The Senators can't do it by themselves.
Too far, Jen, it’s not this simple and we have to be able to respect each other around our disagreements. Understand completely the rage and disappointment, agree, but also understand the assessment of others that Trump has no limits to the pain he’s willing to inflict on people to get his way and that they felt they had to do something. Let’s pull together and make the best we can of this very bad situation. We didn’t lose everything, there’s plenty to show what scum they are and bring it forcefully to the voters in the next steps. We can’t let them win by tearing us apart, please. Rosemary
Did anyone watch Lawrence O'Donnell last night? He had different take on this mess. And HCR's Letter this morning stresses that there are a lot of balls now in the air (although none of the balls are Republican's).
Yes, I did, I need to rewatch it. There was a lot to be thinking about not sure if I agree with it, but I also need to rewatch it. See if he has any additional articles on this.
Seriously disagree with you. The shutdown strategy was doomed from the beginning and the Democratic Party got as much as it was going to get out of it on Election Day. Rather than risking having public sentiment switch to blaming Democrats, the party (and collectively) chose the senators who would break with the party to end the shutdown.
On another level, while I've subscribed to the Contrarian in order to oppose Trump, I'm seriously thinking of no longer subscribing. Like a lot of progressives (such as AOC), this column indicates you're living in a fantasy world where a majority of voters agree with you. But, they don't. It's that kind of fantasy thinking that put Trump back in the White House.
Couldn’t agree more. Knee-jerk response needs a little time to marinate in the possibility that more is afoot than “caving”. I do love the passion and fire of progressives, but why do they default to “burn it down, throw them out” when they don’t get their way? We need more Democrats not fewer if we are going to salvage this admin’s hot mess. How about a reasoned rebuttal instead of throwing people under the bus?