Given the extraordinary power grab by the president, the stakes surrounding Congress’s spending power are much higher. This is a critical turning point for democracy.
Federal worker household here. Can't count how many times shutdown threats have affected our personal finances and mental health. Since no one can calculate the odds of winning either way, we are already screwed. Lost half of the support staff and do twice the work while worrying about paying the bills. These are the realities on the ground, folks.
This is all on Congressional Republicans. If they hadn't caved, we wouldn't be here. Now you're telling US to fight? We who wondered whether we'd be canned for months on end at the beginning of the year? We who work with Trump putting targets on people's backs for doing their jobs? I don't know what the answer is, but WE are tired of paying for Republicans' mistakes. A little recognition of the stakes in our lives would be appreciated.
But, but, ever since Reagan, we've been told that government is the problem ... until there's a hurricane, or you suddenly need to go on SSI, or grandma needs nursing care, or farmers need a market for their corps, or collecting tariffs, or a thousand other things. The only thing we've heard over the past 30-40 years is Republicans vilifying teachers or government workers, with the only solutions offered are cutting taxes. Well, we cut taxes and now we're drowning in debt. At least when Democrats spend money we get something for it like airports and roads and hospitals and feeding hungry children. The government is no longer working for the people Time for Republicans to own the "government" they created.
Having been on layoff lists, but survived the final ax, multiple times in my 37 year tenure in the private sector, I really understand the plight of our federal workers and strongly support their need for greater financial and emotional stability in their own and their families lives. Sadly, our PINO and his current administration doesn't give a d*mn about folks who actually know how, and do, a real job competently. Consequently, I believe Dem's have no choice but to demand that furloughed workers continue to be paid during any shutdown, along with demands like rolling back the cuts to healthcare, medical research, and food assistance. If the MAGots, go ahead with their slash and burn tactics, they will own the consequences of their cruelty. I realize that is no real help to your crisis in the short term, but caving to the MAGots in the short term does nothing to protect you and your fellow workers in the long term either. What a profound tragedy that we are watching the wanton destruction of everything that actually made this nation great (like our Federal Workers) in real time, and know that the battles in the foreseeable future are going to continue to be painful and harsh. All my best to you, KnockKnockGreenpeace, I wish I could do more to assist you and all your fellow workers.
I'll take whatever leverage they can bring to bear--but I don't know how they can do it. Apart from us personally, it's awful to witness the ruin of so many people's life's work and 250 years of incremental progress made to the administrative state. This shit works. It's really sad that Republicans, who are also the beneficiaries, will not acknowledge this. Our government does--did--work.
Thanks so much for you insights. Appreciate the solidarity.
In 2014 my office, Office of Administrative Law Judges, DOL was targeted under "sequestration" as unnecessary to the operation of the agency under the Budget Reconciliation Act.
We were judges, and were merely housed at DOL. Many of the 182 kinds of heartings we held inviolved more than 60 statutes that covered matters like 22 kinds of whistleblowers, workers rights, workers' comp type cases, workers' visas, etc. We were not reimbursed for time lost during sequestration.
Mr. Stier, you are talking about a situation in which Congress works together. That ship sailed in January. I do not want to do or not do something because trump may take advantage of it. In my opinion that is already "caving in". The harm this Administration is causing requires resistance.
How trump may take advantage of it is the big question, though. Might we be worse off if he now has no guard rails and can do whatever he wants. And there are still some guard rails, now, so don’t say we’re operating that way anyway.
Assuming trump will observe the ususal norms during a shutdown is wishful thinking. He could use it as an excuse to do anything, and who can stop,him. We’re caught between a rock and a hard place, and there are definite pluses, and minuses to either solution. And considering that is not caving.
Surrendering in advance only empowers authoritarians.
This piece sounds like the standard radical centrist position on everything: “We need to work it out. Why can’t we all get along.” How dangerously naive.
I don’t want a shutdown, and I certainly don’t want our federal workers to suffer more than they have. But rolling over and doing nothing (as this piece essentially advocates) is unacceptable. That was the tactic last time, and we didn’t slow Trump one bit.
A real and credible threat of a shutdown gives Dems bargaining power. An actual shutdown will hurt many Americans, but Trump is already doing that. He would own the shutdown politically, so the Dems must be able and willing to go there if they have any hope of turning the tide. Let’s try something new for once and fight.
Agree 100% - I was ready to post something very similar, but you've said it for me. I'd only add that more Democrats (and especially the leadership - Schumer and Jeffries - need to speak out more firmly, more loudly, and more often. And confront publicly the individual Republicans in Congress who are enabling the disaster.
I wish I could believe that, Grumpy, but I fear that our PINO will "make emergency exemptions" to bail out his Billionaire Buddies - Isn't that what the Budget Busting, Billionaire Bailout Bill was designed to achieve? We can't now let a little trifle like shutting down the entire government and starving the vast majority of tax paying Americans to get in the way of inconveniencing the Uber wealthy, or slowing the flow of cryptocurrency to the Convict in Chief now can we?
But there will be a political cost for those "exceptions" if Democrats every day lay out who is getting paid ... and who isn't. Shutdown is not a preferred solution but the options are dwindling every day.
You wrote " If Republicans and Democrats cannot reach a spending deal by the end of the month in the current highly charged political environment, Trump and Russell Vought, his budget director, will have enormous latitude to determine which services, programs, and employees can be sidelined, decisions that could go far beyond what has occurred during past shutdowns."
That was the argument that Democrat leadership used at the last budget showdown. How did that work out? It's time for spine!
Just yesterday saw Adam Kinzinger's advice: Democrats say, well GOP, you have all three branches of government. Now govern. Do not go hat in hand asking to "negotiate." Tell the Republicans they are on they own. They own whatever happens. Of course, they will need some Democratic votes. So make demands. What are the most important things you want saved, Democrats? Demand it. But make very clear in public statements that the GOP owns this mess.
While I don't want any government workers to suffer a shutdown. you propose a solution that presumes Trump and his toadies wouldn't do what you fear they might do anyway. The mistake you're making is the same mistake Democrats have been making for decades...acting as if the other side will respond rationally...how has THAT worked out for us so far?
No, take a stand, demand changes to things the Big, Awful & Very Bad Bill screwed up and force Republicans to publicly refuse to fix them.
The Dems should NOT again act as "the adult in the room" and bail out the populace, who voted for this administration. Only when the federal government collapses and people suffer will the MAGA fever have any chance of breaking. FAFO.
If the democrats don’t stand strong and demand that healthcare cannot be taken from the American people etc. the republicans need the democrats to pass something so if they don’t then the government shuts down. As per DOGE many parts of the government aren’t there or very little employees as those departments was dismantled.
Besides if they don’t stand firm not cave. All these senators should make that point to Senator Schumer you blew it last time the stakes are so much higher. If you don’t just pack your stuff and leave. We need to push and show the people what we stand for this time don’t let us down . Fight to get what you want for the American people make us believe in you
And - this is a lose-lose situation for the Dems. If they vote for funding, they will lose more Dem support from people who are mad as heck and want them to stand up to the President; and if they don't support it- they will be blamed for the shutdown. This was all set up by the GOP - the best thing you can do is to hope elections are not totally rigged by next year and to vote these people out.
It IS a critical point for democracy. Bending a knee and just agreeing to whatever the Republicans want in order to pat oneself on the back as "the adult in the room" is simply justifying surrendering that democracy. There is a major "No Kings" protest coming up on October 18, building upon the widespread protests over the summer. Support the resistance, don't surrender to the wanna-be King!
shut down the government, nobody go to work or spend a penny to shut down the economy until trump and trash are removed. It will only get more painful the longer we wait.
While it is vital that Congress find common ground, the assumption on the part of Republicans is that common ground is Democrats acceding to Republican wishes. The president not only told Republicans that there is no need to talk to Democrats on this issue of a shutdown, he cancelled a meeting with Democrats to discuss the issues, deeming it pointless. You provide some numbers on the the federal employees that have been furloughed or fired. Yet at this point, the pain hasn't really hit Americans. Perhaps the FAA and TSA need to shut down air travel completely. That will make the point that these services are essential. Inconveniencing the business travelers might get them to pick up the phone to their representatives and tell them to stop the crap. Besides, people were told by DOGE that AI is the answer to all the services that government provides for Social Security, IRS and the like. Just perhaps, the masked thugs of ICE will decide that there is no reason to harass innocent people if they aren't being paid.
I did some research on Partnership for Public Service and find that it's a well respected organization devoted to "better government" and recognition of those who work for the federal government. I also read that the Partnership used to be heavily funded by the federal government(40%) and has had its funding significantly cut by this regime. Don't know if the Partnership continues to receive federal funding.
Note to KnockKnockGreenpeace. My daughter currently works for the federal government. A woman in my local Democratic Party tells us stories about her husband and his co-workers who are all federal employees and who have for months been so afraid of losing their jobs. Asked to sign loyalty pledges, which they do. While I like to say we are all in this together, as you point out, we are all not feeling the pain. But despite that, I yearn for some act of defiance and so support a shutdown. Not for theater, but because I hope it will be a catalyst for Americans to stand up to this regime in the numbers that are needed to take back our country. I apologize.
Republicans are incapable of funding the government they are partly the reason why the debt has exploded and they don’t want to find a solution except to blame Democrats.
But likely more damned one way than the other. The ? is which? Dems tried going along to get along last time. And here we are yet again. There is only one way to break the Groundhog Day cycle.
Federal worker household here. Can't count how many times shutdown threats have affected our personal finances and mental health. Since no one can calculate the odds of winning either way, we are already screwed. Lost half of the support staff and do twice the work while worrying about paying the bills. These are the realities on the ground, folks.
This is all on Congressional Republicans. If they hadn't caved, we wouldn't be here. Now you're telling US to fight? We who wondered whether we'd be canned for months on end at the beginning of the year? We who work with Trump putting targets on people's backs for doing their jobs? I don't know what the answer is, but WE are tired of paying for Republicans' mistakes. A little recognition of the stakes in our lives would be appreciated.
But, but, ever since Reagan, we've been told that government is the problem ... until there's a hurricane, or you suddenly need to go on SSI, or grandma needs nursing care, or farmers need a market for their corps, or collecting tariffs, or a thousand other things. The only thing we've heard over the past 30-40 years is Republicans vilifying teachers or government workers, with the only solutions offered are cutting taxes. Well, we cut taxes and now we're drowning in debt. At least when Democrats spend money we get something for it like airports and roads and hospitals and feeding hungry children. The government is no longer working for the people Time for Republicans to own the "government" they created.
Having been on layoff lists, but survived the final ax, multiple times in my 37 year tenure in the private sector, I really understand the plight of our federal workers and strongly support their need for greater financial and emotional stability in their own and their families lives. Sadly, our PINO and his current administration doesn't give a d*mn about folks who actually know how, and do, a real job competently. Consequently, I believe Dem's have no choice but to demand that furloughed workers continue to be paid during any shutdown, along with demands like rolling back the cuts to healthcare, medical research, and food assistance. If the MAGots, go ahead with their slash and burn tactics, they will own the consequences of their cruelty. I realize that is no real help to your crisis in the short term, but caving to the MAGots in the short term does nothing to protect you and your fellow workers in the long term either. What a profound tragedy that we are watching the wanton destruction of everything that actually made this nation great (like our Federal Workers) in real time, and know that the battles in the foreseeable future are going to continue to be painful and harsh. All my best to you, KnockKnockGreenpeace, I wish I could do more to assist you and all your fellow workers.
I'll take whatever leverage they can bring to bear--but I don't know how they can do it. Apart from us personally, it's awful to witness the ruin of so many people's life's work and 250 years of incremental progress made to the administrative state. This shit works. It's really sad that Republicans, who are also the beneficiaries, will not acknowledge this. Our government does--did--work.
Thanks so much for you insights. Appreciate the solidarity.
In 2014 my office, Office of Administrative Law Judges, DOL was targeted under "sequestration" as unnecessary to the operation of the agency under the Budget Reconciliation Act.
We were judges, and were merely housed at DOL. Many of the 182 kinds of heartings we held inviolved more than 60 statutes that covered matters like 22 kinds of whistleblowers, workers rights, workers' comp type cases, workers' visas, etc. We were not reimbursed for time lost during sequestration.
Was that a Mitch McConnell special? Sounds like a Republican signature. Appreciate your service. Best wishes, friend.
I blame DOL. Tom Perez.
Mr. Stier, you are talking about a situation in which Congress works together. That ship sailed in January. I do not want to do or not do something because trump may take advantage of it. In my opinion that is already "caving in". The harm this Administration is causing requires resistance.
How trump may take advantage of it is the big question, though. Might we be worse off if he now has no guard rails and can do whatever he wants. And there are still some guard rails, now, so don’t say we’re operating that way anyway.
Assuming trump will observe the ususal norms during a shutdown is wishful thinking. He could use it as an excuse to do anything, and who can stop,him. We’re caught between a rock and a hard place, and there are definite pluses, and minuses to either solution. And considering that is not caving.
I agree that "we’re caught between a rock and a hard place, and there are definite pluses, and minuses to either solution."
Surrendering in advance only empowers authoritarians.
This piece sounds like the standard radical centrist position on everything: “We need to work it out. Why can’t we all get along.” How dangerously naive.
I don’t want a shutdown, and I certainly don’t want our federal workers to suffer more than they have. But rolling over and doing nothing (as this piece essentially advocates) is unacceptable. That was the tactic last time, and we didn’t slow Trump one bit.
A real and credible threat of a shutdown gives Dems bargaining power. An actual shutdown will hurt many Americans, but Trump is already doing that. He would own the shutdown politically, so the Dems must be able and willing to go there if they have any hope of turning the tide. Let’s try something new for once and fight.
Agree 100% - I was ready to post something very similar, but you've said it for me. I'd only add that more Democrats (and especially the leadership - Schumer and Jeffries - need to speak out more firmly, more loudly, and more often. And confront publicly the individual Republicans in Congress who are enabling the disaster.
The shutdown may not hurt people equally, but it might hurt some of the fat cats whose contracts won't get paid during a shutdown.
I wish I could believe that, Grumpy, but I fear that our PINO will "make emergency exemptions" to bail out his Billionaire Buddies - Isn't that what the Budget Busting, Billionaire Bailout Bill was designed to achieve? We can't now let a little trifle like shutting down the entire government and starving the vast majority of tax paying Americans to get in the way of inconveniencing the Uber wealthy, or slowing the flow of cryptocurrency to the Convict in Chief now can we?
But there will be a political cost for those "exceptions" if Democrats every day lay out who is getting paid ... and who isn't. Shutdown is not a preferred solution but the options are dwindling every day.
You wrote " If Republicans and Democrats cannot reach a spending deal by the end of the month in the current highly charged political environment, Trump and Russell Vought, his budget director, will have enormous latitude to determine which services, programs, and employees can be sidelined, decisions that could go far beyond what has occurred during past shutdowns."
That was the argument that Democrat leadership used at the last budget showdown. How did that work out? It's time for spine!
Just yesterday saw Adam Kinzinger's advice: Democrats say, well GOP, you have all three branches of government. Now govern. Do not go hat in hand asking to "negotiate." Tell the Republicans they are on they own. They own whatever happens. Of course, they will need some Democratic votes. So make demands. What are the most important things you want saved, Democrats? Demand it. But make very clear in public statements that the GOP owns this mess.
While I don't want any government workers to suffer a shutdown. you propose a solution that presumes Trump and his toadies wouldn't do what you fear they might do anyway. The mistake you're making is the same mistake Democrats have been making for decades...acting as if the other side will respond rationally...how has THAT worked out for us so far?
No, take a stand, demand changes to things the Big, Awful & Very Bad Bill screwed up and force Republicans to publicly refuse to fix them.
The Dems should NOT again act as "the adult in the room" and bail out the populace, who voted for this administration. Only when the federal government collapses and people suffer will the MAGA fever have any chance of breaking. FAFO.
If the democrats don’t stand strong and demand that healthcare cannot be taken from the American people etc. the republicans need the democrats to pass something so if they don’t then the government shuts down. As per DOGE many parts of the government aren’t there or very little employees as those departments was dismantled.
Besides if they don’t stand firm not cave. All these senators should make that point to Senator Schumer you blew it last time the stakes are so much higher. If you don’t just pack your stuff and leave. We need to push and show the people what we stand for this time don’t let us down . Fight to get what you want for the American people make us believe in you
And - this is a lose-lose situation for the Dems. If they vote for funding, they will lose more Dem support from people who are mad as heck and want them to stand up to the President; and if they don't support it- they will be blamed for the shutdown. This was all set up by the GOP - the best thing you can do is to hope elections are not totally rigged by next year and to vote these people out.
It IS a critical point for democracy. Bending a knee and just agreeing to whatever the Republicans want in order to pat oneself on the back as "the adult in the room" is simply justifying surrendering that democracy. There is a major "No Kings" protest coming up on October 18, building upon the widespread protests over the summer. Support the resistance, don't surrender to the wanna-be King!
shut down the government, nobody go to work or spend a penny to shut down the economy until trump and trash are removed. It will only get more painful the longer we wait.
While it is vital that Congress find common ground, the assumption on the part of Republicans is that common ground is Democrats acceding to Republican wishes. The president not only told Republicans that there is no need to talk to Democrats on this issue of a shutdown, he cancelled a meeting with Democrats to discuss the issues, deeming it pointless. You provide some numbers on the the federal employees that have been furloughed or fired. Yet at this point, the pain hasn't really hit Americans. Perhaps the FAA and TSA need to shut down air travel completely. That will make the point that these services are essential. Inconveniencing the business travelers might get them to pick up the phone to their representatives and tell them to stop the crap. Besides, people were told by DOGE that AI is the answer to all the services that government provides for Social Security, IRS and the like. Just perhaps, the masked thugs of ICE will decide that there is no reason to harass innocent people if they aren't being paid.
I'm sure "popes" is an auto-correct typo - but I can't figure out what word was meant.
AI hard at work. Thanks for the catch. Corrected.
I did some research on Partnership for Public Service and find that it's a well respected organization devoted to "better government" and recognition of those who work for the federal government. I also read that the Partnership used to be heavily funded by the federal government(40%) and has had its funding significantly cut by this regime. Don't know if the Partnership continues to receive federal funding.
Note to KnockKnockGreenpeace. My daughter currently works for the federal government. A woman in my local Democratic Party tells us stories about her husband and his co-workers who are all federal employees and who have for months been so afraid of losing their jobs. Asked to sign loyalty pledges, which they do. While I like to say we are all in this together, as you point out, we are all not feeling the pain. But despite that, I yearn for some act of defiance and so support a shutdown. Not for theater, but because I hope it will be a catalyst for Americans to stand up to this regime in the numbers that are needed to take back our country. I apologize.
Republicans are incapable of funding the government they are partly the reason why the debt has exploded and they don’t want to find a solution except to blame Democrats.
Damned if you do, damned if you don't.
But likely more damned one way than the other. The ? is which? Dems tried going along to get along last time. And here we are yet again. There is only one way to break the Groundhog Day cycle.
Yeah, I think they have to shut it down.
Mr. Stiers, you forget that it takes two to tango.