132 Comments
User's avatar
Jason's avatar
4hEdited

Rubin is correct to point out the extreme brutality the people of the West Bank continue to suffer, even if she avoids the clear description of this system of oppression - apartheid.

The slaughter in Gaza has not stopped either. Since the suppose “ceasefire” last fall, Israel has killed over 1100 men women and children in the region, while occupying over 60% of its land, including much of the best farmland. Israel continues to restrict building materials and food from entering, and 10,000 Palestinians are still missing, either buried under rubble or held as hostages under “administrative detention”.

This did not all start under Israel’s longest serving prime minister, but him and his allies have made it worse. Support for Israel’s brutality in the US remains bipartisan, although that is changing fast.

Stephen Brady's avatar

This is what happens when authoritarians take control of governments. If we don’t turn things around in November, this is what awaits us.

NubbyShober's avatar

Step One: Require AIPAC to register as the lobbying organization of a foreign government.

AIPAC--and its smaller imitators--holds a stranglehold on the US Congress with regards to ANY official US government policy towards Israel.

DW's avatar

Get campaign donations out US politics completely.

DW's avatar

Thanks for this. I will check it out. I had not heard of it before.

Unfortunately, the process and the constitution is so laborious. We still don't have an ERA!

But at the very least it is a great effort to bring the issue more into the foreground

DW's avatar

Err...the process "to amend"

donna woodward's avatar

It's about time this was said here. Thank you, Jen.

Jason's avatar

Hi Donna, curious if you have noticed that Rubin seems to have shifted left a bit this past month or so? Yesterday she is talking about abolishing ICE, today she has published what I think is her first full post about the West Bank..she has been more critical of 'moderates' than I recall.

Maybe I am reading into it, or is a coincidence and with her it could be following the winds? I am curious what you think... But still its welcome..the attacks on CNN and Ro Khanna were really outrageous and deserved more reporting (I mentioned it here yesterday). I am curious if the recent successes of progressive challengers in Dem primaries is related ..

I am still waiting to hear her write 'genocide' or 'apartheid' ... but this is ok for today :)

donna woodward's avatar

I thought today's column was a first for Jen in terms of straight talk about Netanyahoo's Israel,Jason. I'll need to reread what she said about abolishing ICE. You must have seen that P47 just countered "his" Administration's previous order to ICE to end their traffic stops; he ordered them to restart the stops!

Jason's avatar

I actually did not hear that - bad news, and not surprising.

Stephen Brady's avatar

I see signs that Jen of going through the same transition that my family did - Eisenhower Republicans repudiating the party of modern MAGA and becoming enthusiastic Democrats.

Jason's avatar

She has been on Dem side for a while..but I feel like she might be shifting even further left, a little...

Stephen Brady's avatar

We all progress through these life transformations at different rates. look at the 1956 Republican platform and think on how it compares to the present...

https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2014/oct/28/facebook-posts/viral-meme-says-1956-republican-platform-was-prett/

Jason's avatar

Oh yes, I understand Ike's republican party was basically a different party altogether than today's.

Steve 218's avatar

That, sir, is painfully obvious. What we have today are MAGApublicans, no relation at all to the previous iteration. It's hard to even consider them to be a party, as behavior is more akin to a cult.

tamar's avatar

as soon as she writes genocide or apartheid i am unsubscribing. condemning the settlements and settlers is not the same and should be -if possible- the focus of the condemnation of netanyahu and his goons. the elections cannot come soon enough and if israel reelects them the country is lost

Jason's avatar
1hEdited

That’s says more about you than Rubin or anyone else.

You should hear the interviews Khanna has been giving, and the testimonies of Palestinians living there, then say with a straight face that the West Bank is not the definition of apartheid.

This all predates Netanyahu, and is also not just about the so-called “settlers” who have the full support of the Israeli government and the IDF.

And, the number of human rights orgs, genocide scholars, journalists and other informed observers, and elected officials around the works (including plenty in Israel) who have affirmed that Israel is committing genocide in Gaza is too long to list.

Anastasia Pantsios's avatar

No, it says more about YOU that you don't know what the definition of "genocide" is but love to embrace extreme terms. What is happening on t the West Bank most definitely isn't "genocide." What is happening in Gaza is "war crimes."

Jason's avatar
1hEdited

Nope, you are just flat wrong. I don't have time to list how many people and orgs have affirmed this. Even the president of J Street admitted as much last year. B'TSelem in Israel. Physicians for Human Rights, in Israel...the International Association of Genocide Scholars, the largest professional organization of genocide scholars in the world ...several different UN officials and committees.. so, so many more.

What Israel has done and continues to do in Gaza very much fits the legal definition of genocide. You have shown over and over in these threads you are way off base on this...weren't you saying just yesterday how 'tired' you were of hearing about Israel and the Occupied Territories altogether? That says it all about you and your misinformed opinion on this. You have shown repeatedly in these threads you how little you care about facts and evidence regarding Palestinians.

And, the system of oppression and control in the West Bank is undeniably apartheid. You have to be willfully blind to not understand this at this point...you have proven that is exactly what you are at this point regarding this.

patricia's avatar

never happy are you

Jason's avatar

Never happy until I get one of you half sentence content-free responses Patricia!

patricia's avatar

glad I could help !

Jason's avatar

(sorry - 'patricia' not 'Patricia')

DW's avatar

It's conversations like this one that are the least helpful of all.

Anastasia Pantsios's avatar

There is no "genocide." The proper name for what is happening in Gaza is "war crimes." What is happening in the West Bank is just crimes.

Mark Pukey's avatar

To re-state what Jason already said:

"Nope, you are just flat wrong. I don't have time to list how many people and orgs have affirmed this. Even the president of J Street admitted as much last year. B'TSelem in Israel. Physicians for Human Rights, in Israel...the International Association of Genocide Scholars, the largest professional organization of genocide scholars in the world ...several different UN officials and committees.. so, so many more."

How about you take a few minutes to explain your elaborate education and professional background that allows you to have an opinion that carries more weight than all of those actual professionals who study this stuff for a living? If you can't... maybe it's time you admit that YOUR definition of genocide is wrong.

Don't be Trump. Admit that words have meanings that we all agree on... or they are meaningless. Right now, you are just being Trump-y. Either justify your "new definition" or use the same one everyone else uses. And by that definition... the IDF and Israeli government clearly are engaged in genocidal acts.

Irena's avatar

Netanyahu, Ben Gvir and Smotrich are the blight upon Israel, along with the unhinged settlers and the haredi culture of "we're right no matter what". Israel is being attacked from within by these gangsters,

Andrew D's avatar

How analogous is this to the MAGA extremists actions in the US? January 6th is a prime example coupled with the pardons and even attempts to reward the gangsters. Netanyahu is following the Trump playbook.

Jason's avatar
3hEdited

It's more the other way around. But they are BFFs certainly, even if they bicker here and there.

Irena's avatar

While both extremist groups are despicable, I think Israel and the US are each a whole different situation. The bottom line is the same: the extremes, whether US or Iran or anywhere in the world, make the center a tough place to be.

DW's avatar

It seems that except in very few instances, there are atrocities everywhere. I wonder if we are not in a worldwide moral decline from which it will take centuries to recover (if the human race even survives two centuries, given existing ecological issues)

Just look at the rest of Africa… we decry what is happening is Israel but I don't hear many concerned individuals focusing on the genocides there.

Anastasia Pantsios's avatar

And should join Trump, Hegseth, Miller et al in a prison somewhere.

Anne Pierce's avatar

The US has an enormous ability to pressure Israel into obeying its own and international laws - but Congress and the President have to be willing to use that power. Trump is attached at the hip to Netanyahu; however, anyone who would like to be elected or re-elected should plan to use both financial and legal pressure to end this undeclared war on Palestinians.

donna woodward's avatar

Yes. We have the means to pressure Israel to do the right thing--if we would use it. The problem is no one in the world seems to have the means and the will to pressure us to do the right thing. The Europeans are beginning to distance themselves from us, but they never even speak forcefully and say the truth to our president when he's in their midst.

DW's avatar

Unfortunately, our position as an economic power, combined with an unhinged lunatic at the helm, makes it impossible for them to do anything but kiss his butt.

The fault lies in our Congress and the people that continue to elect these immoral toadies.

donna woodward's avatar

I agree with you that it's our Congressional leaders and our voters who are to blame in the first instance. But I think the Europeans would have more power than they realize if only they'd start to use it. After all, we know all about TACO.

Jason's avatar

If we can keep electing fighters into congress, i think there's a chance for real change on this issue.

Steve 218's avatar

There is agreement there, though a lot of the time, people keep re-electing the same-old-same-old whether or not these legislators serve them well. Many of our legislators have abandoned the term 'public servant' for a life of power and entitlement.

Anastasia Pantsios's avatar

We need to properly identify "fighters" and not confuse them with celebrities and posturers. We're not good at that. We can be shallow and fall for flash.

Jim (Bombguy24)'s avatar

Yes, but will they even listen anymore?

Anne Pierce's avatar

Israel can't function without US aid. If that ends, they will listen.

Steve 218's avatar

Actually, Israel is a financially successful country, built on U.S. international welfare payments. Like our independently wealthy corporations, it's time for the welfare to end. Israel may have to re-define its priorities, but it can continue to do well on its own. Perpetual war is an expensive proposition.

donna woodward's avatar

Instead our stupidly laughable president flexes his flab by threatening Canada and Greenland with annexation.

Anastasia Pantsios's avatar

"Flexes his flab." I love that! Needed a laugh this morning.

tamar's avatar

congress? what's that???

Carole Langston's avatar

We need a case against Mengele Miller for future prosecution. Nail his backside. And the ICE THUGS.

Barbara Carter's avatar

The evil here is beyond words. And this is a nation forged from an unspeakable horror, now lead by those who commit their own atrocities. It boggles the mind. Thank you Jen for this acknowledgment of the evil being waged against the people of Palestine. It does not excuse the violence and horror of October 7th, but the measure of the response and the ongoing destruction is beyond the pale. While I cannot know all the issues here, I can recognize what is going on, and how the US has sanctioned and aided much of this through the support of Netanyahu and others. The US is complicit in this.

DW's avatar

I agree entirely however I will point out that the government and the loonies in the West Bank and Gaza hardly represent the whole of Israeli citizens any more than Trump and his sycophants represent the whole of US citizens.

I am grateful when I read remarks from people from European countries that show they understand that he does not represent all of us.

Barbara Carter's avatar

DW I am in agreement with what you write here completely. I’m aiming my comments at the complicit, not the nation of Israel. It is the same as we deal with here in the US as you state.

Jane in NC's avatar

Well said, Barbara! Brava!

Hale Irwin's avatar

As I have said for years, the US must cease all support for Israel. No more money, no more weapons, no more parts for weapons systems and total severance from dealing with Netanyahu. Remember the Gaza genocide! Congress must act now because you can be sure our own war criminal in the White House will do nothing positive.

Steve 218's avatar

Hear hear, but do not expect miracles from the MAGApublican majority congress, who bow to the "war criminal in the White House".

Debra's avatar

Excellent article. I do not think enough attention is given to the Israelis who don’t agree with Netanyahu, we need to hear their voices loud and clear.

Sue Dabner's avatar

How can we access these voices?

DW's avatar

They don't make good news…

Sue Dabner's avatar

Agree. Do we need to try harder?

DW's avatar

Try harder in what way? Write a letter to the New York Times?

I'm not sure what benefit we will get from hearing those voices. We know what they say - they're opposed to their government's actions just like most of us here on this forum are opposed to the US government's actions. Sometimes I think we waste a lot of time making ourselves feel better by agreeing with each other

Joseph McPhillips's avatar

Meanwhile, it's a war Trump & Co won in the 1st hour; it's not a war; it's a "new" war…#VoteBlue!

Judge blocks Jan6 slush fund & sanctions Fraudster in chief & his acting AG Blanche! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QoRtEQ1ZLAA

https://mitchthelawyer.substack.com/p/i-read-all-56-pages-of-the-trump?

https://joycevance.substack.com/p/judge-is-a-big-no-on-trumps-slush?

Anne Pierce's avatar

Great ruling by Judge Williams. Referring some of Trump's attorneys for potential action by their respective bars is new and important.

David A Sobel's avatar

Thank you Jennifer. A terribly disturbing, but important column.

Woody Halsey's avatar

Hasn't outrageous "settler" violence been going on for a l-o-ong time?

Jason's avatar

It has, and it isn’t just some lone vigilantes. The IDF has been. Openly arming and supporting these “settlers” for decades, and the Israeli government funds them - which means the US is funding them.

I’ve never liked the pastoral sound of the word “settlers”. How about - thieves, squatters, zealots, Jim Crow style lynch mobs… or cut to the chase: “terrorists”.

DW's avatar

It has, but has reached a new threshold. For a long time there have been what might be described as occasional skirmishes. (and I am not saying that they are excusable) But I think the government action in Gaza has emboldened those with the worst tendencies.

It's similar to what is happening here in the US. 20 years ago, would we have expected to see fascists marching through our streets holding torches saying Jews will not replace us?

Harry Kessel's avatar

I completely agree with the premise of this essay. Israel has turned to the very basis of the founding of Israel. Israel’s behavior is hypocritical to their historical basis of their founding.

Steven Erick's avatar

Project Trump's ICE attacks into the future and you have what we are seeing in Israel today. Just a prediction, unless congress takes action. Likely? Probably not.

Jason's avatar

It’s more the other way around. iCEs tactics here have been regular practice in the West Bank for decades… except there they are still far worse than even the most outrageous ICE actions.

DW's avatar

The two are not comparable. ICE is a government sanctioned and coordinated nationwide operation.

What is happening in the West Bank are unorganized marauding groups. True, the Israeli government (ie Netanyahu) does not stop them, and probably even supports them, but they are more like fundamentalist white nationals than they are like ICE agents.

Alan Greenstein's avatar

I was thinking the exactly same thing.

Alan Greenstein's avatar

Sadly, with the Trump regime's dismal record on human rights, even against US citizens, the US has no credibility lecturing lecturing Israel on human rights abuses.

Thomas Moore's avatar

We're long past the point of lecturing them.

Michelle Jordan's avatar

This situation with Netanyahu looks familiar as with Donald Trump he’s dismissive of the violence and thuggery that’s happening in his own country. I agree that we should stop or at least cut back on military aid that is being used to commit atrocities and human rights abuses against other ethnic groups in the country. The last thing they need and the U. S. needs being an ally to Israel is something like an Israeli ICE operation. I hope this can be resolved quickly and in a way that’s beneficial to every side.