Rubin is correct to point out the extreme brutality the people of the West Bank continue to suffer, even if she avoids the clear description of this system of oppression - apartheid.
The slaughter in Gaza has not stopped either. Since the suppose “ceasefire” last fall, Israel has killed over 1100 men women and children in the region, while occupying over 60% of its land, including much of the best farmland. Israel continues to restrict building materials and food from entering, and 10,000 Palestinians are still missing, either buried under rubble or held as hostages under “administrative detention”.
This did not all start under Israel’s longest serving prime minister, but him and his allies have made it worse. Support for Israel’s brutality in the US remains bipartisan, although that is changing fast.
It may be that Israel currently has a bad dude in power supported by the religious right, just as we have a bad dude in power supported by the religious right. Nonetheless Israelis have a right to defend themselves against jihadist aggression.
First is this oft-repeated notion that Israel’s history of crimes can be blamed on Netanyahu and his team of extremist zealots. It is certainly true that they are a terrible bunch and have escalated Israëls’s war crimes to levels not seen in generations, but these crimes did not start with Bibi. The strangling blockade and numerous invasions of Gaza have been going on for over 20 years (and long before that really), while the apartheid oppression of the West Bank has been going on for many decades...and this has all had bipartisan support in the US, with only occasional 'concern (until now - this is finally changing for real).
Plus, it bears repeating that Netanyahu is Israel’s longest serving prime minister. He has been elected several times; none were flukes. His policies in Gaza were only criticized in Israel because of the Israeli hostages, not because of the decimation and genocide brought by Israel. Now he has been criticized not for waging war in Iran and Lebanon, but for not waging them hard enough.
Second, this idea that ‘Israel has a right to defend itself’ against people it illegally and violently oppresses, in lands it illegally controls and occupies, is nonsense in terms of international law.
Scholar Noura Erakat put it this way: “A state cannot simultaneously exercise control over territory it occupies and militarily attack that territory on the claim that it is ‘foreign’ and poses an exogenous national security threat. In doing precisely that, Israel is asserting rights that may be consistent with colonial domination but simply do not exist under international law.”
Beyond this, there is nothing happening now in either Gaza or the West Bank that could be considered ‘self-defense’ by even the greatest leaps of imagination. Israel has continued killing civilians every day of the so-called ‘ceasefire’ in Gaz, while there has been no measurable response at all from Hamas or any other armed group there for many months. In the West Bank, the topic here, even though the PA has colluded with the Israeli government, the IDF and its proxy terrorists we call ‘settlers’ continue to kill and burn and loot and steal with total impunity, constantly, with the full protection of the Israeli government. There is no remotely plausible claim of ‘self defense’ in the West Bank. Zero.
Seriously, can you consider the attacks on a US Congressman or CNN that Rubin outlines here as ‘self defense’? The idea is laughably ridiculous…and these examples are only a couple out of endless choices, and not even close to the worst examples of Israel's brutal apartheid regime there.
And, it is rarely discussed that the people of Palestine in fact do have every right to ‘defend themselves’ against illegal, violent occupation under international law. In 1982, the UN General Assembly “reaffirmed the legitimacy of the struggle of peoples for independence, territorial integrity, national unity and liberation from colonial and foreign domination and foreign occupation by all available means, including armed struggle.” Again, the people of the West Bank, the subject here, have every single right to fight back against these utterly lawless, extremely violent ‘settlers’…but this is never allowed or even discussed in the US.
Thank you so much Jason. I studied international humanitarian affairs in Geneva, Switzerland years ago. There is SO much disinformation and propaganda out there concerning the state of Israel and the Palestinian people. Anyone who values justice and equality would cry if they knew the facts.
If our bad dude Trump were to start bombing Iran because America has a right to defend itself against the bad things Iran has done, what would we think? Oh, wait, Trump *has* started a war against Iran and most Americans don't support it. You see? It's not merely about whether a country has the right to defend itself. It's about *how* they do it. One way is to engage in massive slaughter, including of children, plus alienation of all former allies. Another way is to engage in diplomacy -- as Obama did with JCPOA and Iran, until Trump came along and undid it all. And I do think peaceful means could have been used to deal with Gaza, despite the failures of the past.
The wording and intent is so simple it would probably have massive universal appeal. And it destroys the entire basis and rational for Citizens United in 9 words.
Hi Donna, curious if you have noticed that Rubin seems to have shifted left a bit this past month or so? Yesterday she is talking about abolishing ICE, today she has published what I think is her first full post about the West Bank..she has been more critical of 'moderates' than I recall.
Maybe I am reading into it, or is a coincidence and with her it could be following the winds? I am curious what you think... But still its welcome..the attacks on CNN and Ro Khanna were really outrageous and deserved more reporting (I mentioned it here yesterday). I am curious if the recent successes of progressive challengers in Dem primaries is related ..
I am still waiting to hear her write 'genocide' or 'apartheid' ... but this is ok for today :)
I see signs that Jen of going through the same transition that my family did - Eisenhower Republicans repudiating the party of modern MAGA and becoming enthusiastic Democrats.
I see it with Bill Kristol, Rick Wilson and Stuart Stevens as well, for example. It’s amazing how much some of them have shifted to the left since breaking with their Party in 2016 over Trump.
We all progress through these life transformations at different rates. look at the 1956 Republican platform and think on how it compares to the present...
That, sir, is painfully obvious. What we have today are MAGApublicans, no relation at all to the previous iteration. It's hard to even consider them to be a party, as behavior is more akin to a cult.
I have to say that I grew up with parents who were devoted FDR Democrats, and I just assumed that the Democratic Party was always going to be that way. I started noticing in later years that Democratic leaders were often behaving like conservatives and not supporting (as my father used to put it) "the working man." It took a while for me to realize how much in the pockets of corporations and billionaires even many Democrats were. So, I can understand how, if you see your party a certain way, it can take a while for the evidence to penetrate. I still support the Democrats. Of course I do, but I look now to see who really is doing the right things -- actions.
I remember back when Jen Rubin was railing against Democrats -- and I along with many others witnessed her gradually realizing that the Republican Party had completely changed and she was supporting the wrong people. But you know what? Even back when she was writing columns criticizing the Democrats I used to read them because she was an intelligent person and a good analyst. She proved herself many times over by showing she was able to change in response to accumulating evidence. That's all too rare. And I was happy to follow her to the Contrarian when she left WaPo.
I thought today's column was a first for Jen in terms of straight talk about Netanyahoo's Israel,Jason. I'll need to reread what she said about abolishing ICE. You must have seen that P47 just countered "his" Administration's previous order to ICE to end their traffic stops; he ordered them to restart the stops!
as soon as she writes genocide or apartheid i am unsubscribing. condemning the settlements and settlers is not the same and should be -if possible- the focus of the condemnation of netanyahu and his goons. the elections cannot come soon enough and if israel reelects them the country is lost
That’s says more about you than Rubin or anyone else.
You should hear the interviews Khanna has been giving, and the testimonies of Palestinians living there, then say with a straight face that the West Bank is not the definition of apartheid.
This all predates Netanyahu, and is also not just about the so-called “settlers” who have the full support of the Israeli government and the IDF.
And, the number of human rights orgs, genocide scholars, journalists and other informed observers, and elected officials around the world (including plenty in Israel) who have affirmed that Israel is committing genocide in Gaza is too long to list.
No, it says more about YOU that you don't know what the definition of "genocide" is but love to embrace extreme terms. What is happening on t the West Bank most definitely isn't "genocide." What is happening in Gaza is "war crimes."
Nope, you are just flat wrong. I don't have time to list how many people and orgs have affirmed this. Even the president of J Street admitted as much last year. B'TSelem in Israel. Physicians for Human Rights, in Israel...the International Association of Genocide Scholars, the largest professional organization of genocide scholars in the world ...several different UN officials and committees.. so, so many more.
What Israel has done and continues to do in Gaza very much fits the legal definition of genocide. You have shown over and over in these threads you are way off base on this...weren't you saying just yesterday how 'tired' you were of hearing about Israel and the Occupied Territories altogether? That says it all about you and your misinformed opinion on this. You have shown repeatedly in these threads you how little you care about facts and evidence regarding Palestinians.
And, the system of oppression and control in the West Bank is undeniably apartheid. You have to be willfully blind to not understand this at this point...you have proven that is exactly what you are at this point regarding this.
I think Jen is following the news of atrocities, not mere political winds. When in both in the U.S. and now in Israel even congressmen are subjected to abuse by government thugs - and the fact that the Israeli soldiers did nothing to help in the Khanna harassment situation proves that the settlers were in fact acting as thugs for the Netanyahu government, just as the Proud Boys and other rightwing maga cults commit violent acts with the Trump's approval - more and more people are bound to notice.
"Nope, you are just flat wrong. I don't have time to list how many people and orgs have affirmed this. Even the president of J Street admitted as much last year. B'TSelem in Israel. Physicians for Human Rights, in Israel...the International Association of Genocide Scholars, the largest professional organization of genocide scholars in the world ...several different UN officials and committees.. so, so many more."
How about you take a few minutes to explain your elaborate education and professional background that allows you to have an opinion that carries more weight than all of those actual professionals who study this stuff for a living? If you can't... maybe it's time you admit that YOUR definition of genocide is wrong.
Don't be Trump. Admit that words have meanings that we all agree on... or they are meaningless. Right now, you are just being Trump-y. Either justify your "new definition" or use the same one everyone else uses. And by that definition... the IDF and Israeli government clearly are engaged in genocidal acts.
Netanyahu, Ben Gvir and Smotrich are the blight upon Israel, along with the unhinged settlers and the haredi culture of "we're right no matter what". Israel is being attacked from within by these gangsters,
How analogous is this to the MAGA extremists actions in the US? January 6th is a prime example coupled with the pardons and even attempts to reward the gangsters. Netanyahu is following the Trump playbook.
While both extremist groups are despicable, I think Israel and the US are each a whole different situation. The bottom line is the same: the extremes, whether US or Iran or anywhere in the world, make the center a tough place to be.
It seems that except in very few instances, there are atrocities everywhere. I wonder if we are not in a worldwide moral decline from which it will take centuries to recover (if the human race even survives two centuries, given existing ecological issues)
Just look at the rest of Africa… we decry what is happening is Israel but I don't hear many concerned individuals focusing on the genocides there.
The US has an enormous ability to pressure Israel into obeying its own and international laws - but Congress and the President have to be willing to use that power. Trump is attached at the hip to Netanyahu; however, anyone who would like to be elected or re-elected should plan to use both financial and legal pressure to end this undeclared war on Palestinians.
Yes. We have the means to pressure Israel to do the right thing--if we would use it. The problem is no one in the world seems to have the means and the will to pressure us to do the right thing. The Europeans are beginning to distance themselves from us, but they never even speak forcefully and say the truth to our president when he's in their midst.
Unfortunately, our position as an economic power, combined with an unhinged lunatic at the helm, makes it impossible for them to do anything but kiss his butt.
The fault lies in our Congress and the people that continue to elect these immoral toadies.
I agree with you that it's our Congressional leaders and our voters who are to blame in the first instance. But I think the Europeans would have more power than they realize if only they'd start to use it. After all, we know all about TACO.
I guess I was referring to the part about speaking the truth to the president. I can't even imagine the disastrous outcome of that, given how they mock him behind his back. Unless they are adequately supplicant, he raises import taxes.
We need to properly identify "fighters" and not confuse them with celebrities and posturers. We're not good at that. We can be shallow and fall for flash.
There is agreement there, though a lot of the time, people keep re-electing the same-old-same-old whether or not these legislators serve them well. Many of our legislators have abandoned the term 'public servant' for a life of power and entitlement.
Actually, Israel is a financially successful country, built on U.S. international welfare payments. Like our independently wealthy corporations, it's time for the welfare to end. Israel may have to re-define its priorities, but it can continue to do well on its own. Perpetual war is an expensive proposition.
The evil here is beyond words. And this is a nation forged from an unspeakable horror, now lead by those who commit their own atrocities. It boggles the mind. Thank you Jen for this acknowledgment of the evil being waged against the people of Palestine. It does not excuse the violence and horror of October 7th, but the measure of the response and the ongoing destruction is beyond the pale. While I cannot know all the issues here, I can recognize what is going on, and how the US has sanctioned and aided much of this through the support of Netanyahu and others. The US is complicit in this.
I agree entirely however I will point out that the government and the loonies in the West Bank and Gaza hardly represent the whole of Israeli citizens any more than Trump and his sycophants represent the whole of US citizens.
I am grateful when I read remarks from people from European countries that show they understand that he does not represent all of us.
DW I am in agreement with what you write here completely. I’m aiming my comments at the complicit, not the nation of Israel. It is the same as we deal with here in the US as you state.
As I have said for years, the US must cease all support for Israel. No more money, no more weapons, no more parts for weapons systems and total severance from dealing with Netanyahu. Remember the Gaza genocide! Congress must act now because you can be sure our own war criminal in the White House will do nothing positive.
Excellent article. I do not think enough attention is given to the Israelis who don’t agree with Netanyahu, we need to hear their voices loud and clear.
Try harder in what way? Write a letter to the New York Times?
I'm not sure what benefit we will get from hearing those voices. We know what they say - they're opposed to their government's actions just like most of us here on this forum are opposed to the US government's actions. Sometimes I think we waste a lot of time making ourselves feel better by agreeing with each other
It has, and it isn’t just some lone vigilantes. The IDF has been. Openly arming and supporting these “settlers” for decades, and the Israeli government funds them - which means the US is funding them.
I’ve never liked the pastoral sound of the word “settlers”. How about - thieves, squatters, zealots, Jim Crow style lynch mobs… or cut to the chase: “terrorists”.
It has, but has reached a new threshold. For a long time there have been what might be described as occasional skirmishes. (and I am not saying that they are excusable) But I think the government action in Gaza has emboldened those with the worst tendencies.
It's similar to what is happening here in the US. 20 years ago, would we have expected to see fascists marching through our streets holding torches saying Jews will not replace us?
I completely agree with the premise of this essay. Israel has turned to the very basis of the founding of Israel. Israel’s behavior is hypocritical to their historical basis of their founding.
Project Trump's ICE attacks into the future and you have what we are seeing in Israel today. Just a prediction, unless congress takes action. Likely? Probably not.
It’s more the other way around. iCEs tactics here have been regular practice in the West Bank for decades… except there they are still far worse than even the most outrageous ICE actions.
The two are not comparable. ICE is a government sanctioned and coordinated nationwide operation.
What is happening in the West Bank are unorganized marauding groups. True, the Israeli government (ie Netanyahu) does not stop them, and probably even supports them, but they are more like fundamentalist white nationals than they are like ICE agents.
This situation with Netanyahu looks familiar as with Donald Trump he’s dismissive of the violence and thuggery that’s happening in his own country. I agree that we should stop or at least cut back on military aid that is being used to commit atrocities and human rights abuses against other ethnic groups in the country. The last thing they need and the U. S. needs being an ally to Israel is something like an Israeli ICE operation. I hope this can be resolved quickly and in a way that’s beneficial to every side.
Sadly, with the Trump regime's dismal record on human rights, even against US citizens, the US has no credibility lecturing lecturing Israel on human rights abuses.
Rubin is correct to point out the extreme brutality the people of the West Bank continue to suffer, even if she avoids the clear description of this system of oppression - apartheid.
The slaughter in Gaza has not stopped either. Since the suppose “ceasefire” last fall, Israel has killed over 1100 men women and children in the region, while occupying over 60% of its land, including much of the best farmland. Israel continues to restrict building materials and food from entering, and 10,000 Palestinians are still missing, either buried under rubble or held as hostages under “administrative detention”.
This did not all start under Israel’s longest serving prime minister, but him and his allies have made it worse. Support for Israel’s brutality in the US remains bipartisan, although that is changing fast.
This is what happens when authoritarians take control of governments. If we don’t turn things around in November, this is what awaits us.
Yep.
It may be that Israel currently has a bad dude in power supported by the religious right, just as we have a bad dude in power supported by the religious right. Nonetheless Israelis have a right to defend themselves against jihadist aggression.
You have two misleading statements there.
First is this oft-repeated notion that Israel’s history of crimes can be blamed on Netanyahu and his team of extremist zealots. It is certainly true that they are a terrible bunch and have escalated Israëls’s war crimes to levels not seen in generations, but these crimes did not start with Bibi. The strangling blockade and numerous invasions of Gaza have been going on for over 20 years (and long before that really), while the apartheid oppression of the West Bank has been going on for many decades...and this has all had bipartisan support in the US, with only occasional 'concern (until now - this is finally changing for real).
Plus, it bears repeating that Netanyahu is Israel’s longest serving prime minister. He has been elected several times; none were flukes. His policies in Gaza were only criticized in Israel because of the Israeli hostages, not because of the decimation and genocide brought by Israel. Now he has been criticized not for waging war in Iran and Lebanon, but for not waging them hard enough.
Second, this idea that ‘Israel has a right to defend itself’ against people it illegally and violently oppresses, in lands it illegally controls and occupies, is nonsense in terms of international law.
Scholar Noura Erakat put it this way: “A state cannot simultaneously exercise control over territory it occupies and militarily attack that territory on the claim that it is ‘foreign’ and poses an exogenous national security threat. In doing precisely that, Israel is asserting rights that may be consistent with colonial domination but simply do not exist under international law.”
Beyond this, there is nothing happening now in either Gaza or the West Bank that could be considered ‘self-defense’ by even the greatest leaps of imagination. Israel has continued killing civilians every day of the so-called ‘ceasefire’ in Gaz, while there has been no measurable response at all from Hamas or any other armed group there for many months. In the West Bank, the topic here, even though the PA has colluded with the Israeli government, the IDF and its proxy terrorists we call ‘settlers’ continue to kill and burn and loot and steal with total impunity, constantly, with the full protection of the Israeli government. There is no remotely plausible claim of ‘self defense’ in the West Bank. Zero.
Seriously, can you consider the attacks on a US Congressman or CNN that Rubin outlines here as ‘self defense’? The idea is laughably ridiculous…and these examples are only a couple out of endless choices, and not even close to the worst examples of Israel's brutal apartheid regime there.
And, it is rarely discussed that the people of Palestine in fact do have every right to ‘defend themselves’ against illegal, violent occupation under international law. In 1982, the UN General Assembly “reaffirmed the legitimacy of the struggle of peoples for independence, territorial integrity, national unity and liberation from colonial and foreign domination and foreign occupation by all available means, including armed struggle.” Again, the people of the West Bank, the subject here, have every single right to fight back against these utterly lawless, extremely violent ‘settlers’…but this is never allowed or even discussed in the US.
Thank you many times over, Jason.
Thank you!
Thank you so much Jason. I studied international humanitarian affairs in Geneva, Switzerland years ago. There is SO much disinformation and propaganda out there concerning the state of Israel and the Palestinian people. Anyone who values justice and equality would cry if they knew the facts.
I agree with your position entirely. Thank you for setting it out here.
If our bad dude Trump were to start bombing Iran because America has a right to defend itself against the bad things Iran has done, what would we think? Oh, wait, Trump *has* started a war against Iran and most Americans don't support it. You see? It's not merely about whether a country has the right to defend itself. It's about *how* they do it. One way is to engage in massive slaughter, including of children, plus alienation of all former allies. Another way is to engage in diplomacy -- as Obama did with JCPOA and Iran, until Trump came along and undid it all. And I do think peaceful means could have been used to deal with Gaza, despite the failures of the past.
Step One: Require AIPAC to register as the lobbying organization of a foreign government.
AIPAC--and its smaller imitators--holds a stranglehold on the US Congress with regards to ANY official US government policy towards Israel.
Get campaign donations out US politics completely.
Exactly. And pass Move to Amend.
https://www.movetoamend.org
Thanks for this. I will check it out. I had not heard of it before.
Unfortunately, the process and the constitution is so laborious. We still don't have an ERA!
But at the very least it is a great effort to bring the issue more into the foreground
The wording and intent is so simple it would probably have massive universal appeal. And it destroys the entire basis and rational for Citizens United in 9 words.
In my opinion, you would be hard pressed to get 2/3 of the house AND the Senate to vote for this.
Ouch! Reality bites! Too many are living at the trough.
Err...the process "to amend"
Call lobbying what it is: legal bribery. Then pass laws with sharp teeth against it.
🎯🎯🎯🎯
I'm sure you'd say the same about all of the following:
US-Qatar Business Council
US-Saudi Business Council
US-UAE Business Council
American-Turkish Council
National Iranian-American Council
US-China Business Council
American Ireland Fund
Armenian Assembly of America PAC
US India PAC
Arab American PAC
US-Taiwan Business Council
....and so on. All are groups that lobby for issues important to their countries and communities.
It's about time this was said here. Thank you, Jen.
Hi Donna, curious if you have noticed that Rubin seems to have shifted left a bit this past month or so? Yesterday she is talking about abolishing ICE, today she has published what I think is her first full post about the West Bank..she has been more critical of 'moderates' than I recall.
Maybe I am reading into it, or is a coincidence and with her it could be following the winds? I am curious what you think... But still its welcome..the attacks on CNN and Ro Khanna were really outrageous and deserved more reporting (I mentioned it here yesterday). I am curious if the recent successes of progressive challengers in Dem primaries is related ..
I am still waiting to hear her write 'genocide' or 'apartheid' ... but this is ok for today :)
I see signs that Jen of going through the same transition that my family did - Eisenhower Republicans repudiating the party of modern MAGA and becoming enthusiastic Democrats.
I see it with Bill Kristol, Rick Wilson and Stuart Stevens as well, for example. It’s amazing how much some of them have shifted to the left since breaking with their Party in 2016 over Trump.
Yes! Once you leave your tribe, you are forced to reevaluate your baseline assumptions. Adam Kinsinger is another one.
She has been on Dem side for a while..but I feel like she might be shifting even further left, a little...
We all progress through these life transformations at different rates. look at the 1956 Republican platform and think on how it compares to the present...
https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2014/oct/28/facebook-posts/viral-meme-says-1956-republican-platform-was-prett/
Oh yes, I understand Ike's republican party was basically a different party altogether than today's.
That, sir, is painfully obvious. What we have today are MAGApublicans, no relation at all to the previous iteration. It's hard to even consider them to be a party, as behavior is more akin to a cult.
I have to say that I grew up with parents who were devoted FDR Democrats, and I just assumed that the Democratic Party was always going to be that way. I started noticing in later years that Democratic leaders were often behaving like conservatives and not supporting (as my father used to put it) "the working man." It took a while for me to realize how much in the pockets of corporations and billionaires even many Democrats were. So, I can understand how, if you see your party a certain way, it can take a while for the evidence to penetrate. I still support the Democrats. Of course I do, but I look now to see who really is doing the right things -- actions.
I remember back when Jen Rubin was railing against Democrats -- and I along with many others witnessed her gradually realizing that the Republican Party had completely changed and she was supporting the wrong people. But you know what? Even back when she was writing columns criticizing the Democrats I used to read them because she was an intelligent person and a good analyst. She proved herself many times over by showing she was able to change in response to accumulating evidence. That's all too rare. And I was happy to follow her to the Contrarian when she left WaPo.
I thought today's column was a first for Jen in terms of straight talk about Netanyahoo's Israel,Jason. I'll need to reread what she said about abolishing ICE. You must have seen that P47 just countered "his" Administration's previous order to ICE to end their traffic stops; he ordered them to restart the stops!
I actually did not hear that - bad news, and not surprising.
Ms Rubin has always been a top columnist. I applaud her for this clear-eyed and courageous summary.
as soon as she writes genocide or apartheid i am unsubscribing. condemning the settlements and settlers is not the same and should be -if possible- the focus of the condemnation of netanyahu and his goons. the elections cannot come soon enough and if israel reelects them the country is lost
That’s says more about you than Rubin or anyone else.
You should hear the interviews Khanna has been giving, and the testimonies of Palestinians living there, then say with a straight face that the West Bank is not the definition of apartheid.
This all predates Netanyahu, and is also not just about the so-called “settlers” who have the full support of the Israeli government and the IDF.
And, the number of human rights orgs, genocide scholars, journalists and other informed observers, and elected officials around the world (including plenty in Israel) who have affirmed that Israel is committing genocide in Gaza is too long to list.
No, it says more about YOU that you don't know what the definition of "genocide" is but love to embrace extreme terms. What is happening on t the West Bank most definitely isn't "genocide." What is happening in Gaza is "war crimes."
Nope, you are just flat wrong. I don't have time to list how many people and orgs have affirmed this. Even the president of J Street admitted as much last year. B'TSelem in Israel. Physicians for Human Rights, in Israel...the International Association of Genocide Scholars, the largest professional organization of genocide scholars in the world ...several different UN officials and committees.. so, so many more.
What Israel has done and continues to do in Gaza very much fits the legal definition of genocide. You have shown over and over in these threads you are way off base on this...weren't you saying just yesterday how 'tired' you were of hearing about Israel and the Occupied Territories altogether? That says it all about you and your misinformed opinion on this. You have shown repeatedly in these threads you how little you care about facts and evidence regarding Palestinians.
And, the system of oppression and control in the West Bank is undeniably apartheid. You have to be willfully blind to not understand this at this point...you have proven that is exactly what you are at this point regarding this.
Disagree.
I think Jen is following the news of atrocities, not mere political winds. When in both in the U.S. and now in Israel even congressmen are subjected to abuse by government thugs - and the fact that the Israeli soldiers did nothing to help in the Khanna harassment situation proves that the settlers were in fact acting as thugs for the Netanyahu government, just as the Proud Boys and other rightwing maga cults commit violent acts with the Trump's approval - more and more people are bound to notice.
There is no "genocide." The proper name for what is happening in Gaza is "war crimes." What is happening in the West Bank is just crimes.
To re-state what Jason already said:
"Nope, you are just flat wrong. I don't have time to list how many people and orgs have affirmed this. Even the president of J Street admitted as much last year. B'TSelem in Israel. Physicians for Human Rights, in Israel...the International Association of Genocide Scholars, the largest professional organization of genocide scholars in the world ...several different UN officials and committees.. so, so many more."
How about you take a few minutes to explain your elaborate education and professional background that allows you to have an opinion that carries more weight than all of those actual professionals who study this stuff for a living? If you can't... maybe it's time you admit that YOUR definition of genocide is wrong.
Don't be Trump. Admit that words have meanings that we all agree on... or they are meaningless. Right now, you are just being Trump-y. Either justify your "new definition" or use the same one everyone else uses. And by that definition... the IDF and Israeli government clearly are engaged in genocidal acts.
You are incorrect, ma'am.
never happy are you
Never happy until I get one of you half sentence content-free responses Patricia!
glad I could help !
(sorry - 'patricia' not 'Patricia')
It's conversations like this one that are the least helpful of all.
yeah, but they're fun...
Netanyahu, Ben Gvir and Smotrich are the blight upon Israel, along with the unhinged settlers and the haredi culture of "we're right no matter what". Israel is being attacked from within by these gangsters,
How analogous is this to the MAGA extremists actions in the US? January 6th is a prime example coupled with the pardons and even attempts to reward the gangsters. Netanyahu is following the Trump playbook.
It's more the other way around. But they are BFFs certainly, even if they bicker here and there.
While both extremist groups are despicable, I think Israel and the US are each a whole different situation. The bottom line is the same: the extremes, whether US or Iran or anywhere in the world, make the center a tough place to be.
It seems that except in very few instances, there are atrocities everywhere. I wonder if we are not in a worldwide moral decline from which it will take centuries to recover (if the human race even survives two centuries, given existing ecological issues)
Just look at the rest of Africa… we decry what is happening is Israel but I don't hear many concerned individuals focusing on the genocides there.
T and N are both doing the typical "strongman" thing.
And should join Trump, Hegseth, Miller et al in a prison somewhere.
The US has an enormous ability to pressure Israel into obeying its own and international laws - but Congress and the President have to be willing to use that power. Trump is attached at the hip to Netanyahu; however, anyone who would like to be elected or re-elected should plan to use both financial and legal pressure to end this undeclared war on Palestinians.
Yes. We have the means to pressure Israel to do the right thing--if we would use it. The problem is no one in the world seems to have the means and the will to pressure us to do the right thing. The Europeans are beginning to distance themselves from us, but they never even speak forcefully and say the truth to our president when he's in their midst.
Unfortunately, our position as an economic power, combined with an unhinged lunatic at the helm, makes it impossible for them to do anything but kiss his butt.
The fault lies in our Congress and the people that continue to elect these immoral toadies.
I agree with you that it's our Congressional leaders and our voters who are to blame in the first instance. But I think the Europeans would have more power than they realize if only they'd start to use it. After all, we know all about TACO.
I guess I was referring to the part about speaking the truth to the president. I can't even imagine the disastrous outcome of that, given how they mock him behind his back. Unless they are adequately supplicant, he raises import taxes.
If we can keep electing fighters into congress, i think there's a chance for real change on this issue.
We need to properly identify "fighters" and not confuse them with celebrities and posturers. We're not good at that. We can be shallow and fall for flash.
There is agreement there, though a lot of the time, people keep re-electing the same-old-same-old whether or not these legislators serve them well. Many of our legislators have abandoned the term 'public servant' for a life of power and entitlement.
Donna, I think that's because they know the president isn't to blame, but is hamstrung by Netanyahu.
While he was led into this war by Netanyahoo, I do think he is to blame for so much, Anne-Louise.
Absolutely! I didn't intend to convey anything else, Donna.
Great minds think alike, Anne-Louise?? :)
:) :)
Yes, but will they even listen anymore?
Israel can't function without US aid. If that ends, they will listen.
Actually, Israel is a financially successful country, built on U.S. international welfare payments. Like our independently wealthy corporations, it's time for the welfare to end. Israel may have to re-define its priorities, but it can continue to do well on its own. Perpetual war is an expensive proposition.
Instead our stupidly laughable president flexes his flab by threatening Canada and Greenland with annexation.
"Flexes his flab." I love that! Needed a laugh this morning.
Yes - it's beautiful, in its horrid way! It made me laugh, too. Not the stupid president, though - he's too dangerous to be laughable.
congress? what's that???
Or, Netanyahu is attached to Trump like psoriasis.
We need a case against Mengele Miller for future prosecution. Nail his backside. And the ICE THUGS.
The evil here is beyond words. And this is a nation forged from an unspeakable horror, now lead by those who commit their own atrocities. It boggles the mind. Thank you Jen for this acknowledgment of the evil being waged against the people of Palestine. It does not excuse the violence and horror of October 7th, but the measure of the response and the ongoing destruction is beyond the pale. While I cannot know all the issues here, I can recognize what is going on, and how the US has sanctioned and aided much of this through the support of Netanyahu and others. The US is complicit in this.
I agree entirely however I will point out that the government and the loonies in the West Bank and Gaza hardly represent the whole of Israeli citizens any more than Trump and his sycophants represent the whole of US citizens.
I am grateful when I read remarks from people from European countries that show they understand that he does not represent all of us.
DW I am in agreement with what you write here completely. I’m aiming my comments at the complicit, not the nation of Israel. It is the same as we deal with here in the US as you state.
Well said, Barbara! Brava!
As I have said for years, the US must cease all support for Israel. No more money, no more weapons, no more parts for weapons systems and total severance from dealing with Netanyahu. Remember the Gaza genocide! Congress must act now because you can be sure our own war criminal in the White House will do nothing positive.
Hear hear, but do not expect miracles from the MAGApublican majority congress, who bow to the "war criminal in the White House".
Excellent article. I do not think enough attention is given to the Israelis who don’t agree with Netanyahu, we need to hear their voices loud and clear.
How can we access these voices?
They don't make good news…
Agree. Do we need to try harder?
Try harder in what way? Write a letter to the New York Times?
I'm not sure what benefit we will get from hearing those voices. We know what they say - they're opposed to their government's actions just like most of us here on this forum are opposed to the US government's actions. Sometimes I think we waste a lot of time making ourselves feel better by agreeing with each other
I've never been a fan of inaction. I'm a fan of listening to voices rarely heard which, in my experience, increases/deepens understanding
I'm a fan of action also, but that comprises writing postcodes to voters, emails to my legislators, attending demonstrations, etc.
I don't need someone else to tell me it's important, to understand that it's necessary to be done.
Meanwhile, it's a war Trump & Co won in the 1st hour; it's not a war; it's a "new" war…#VoteBlue!
Judge blocks Jan6 slush fund & sanctions Fraudster in chief & his acting AG Blanche! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QoRtEQ1ZLAA
https://mitchthelawyer.substack.com/p/i-read-all-56-pages-of-the-trump?
https://joycevance.substack.com/p/judge-is-a-big-no-on-trumps-slush?
Great ruling by Judge Williams. Referring some of Trump's attorneys for potential action by their respective bars is new and important.
Thank you Jennifer. A terribly disturbing, but important column.
Hasn't outrageous "settler" violence been going on for a l-o-ong time?
It has, and it isn’t just some lone vigilantes. The IDF has been. Openly arming and supporting these “settlers” for decades, and the Israeli government funds them - which means the US is funding them.
I’ve never liked the pastoral sound of the word “settlers”. How about - thieves, squatters, zealots, Jim Crow style lynch mobs… or cut to the chase: “terrorists”.
It has, but has reached a new threshold. For a long time there have been what might be described as occasional skirmishes. (and I am not saying that they are excusable) But I think the government action in Gaza has emboldened those with the worst tendencies.
It's similar to what is happening here in the US. 20 years ago, would we have expected to see fascists marching through our streets holding torches saying Jews will not replace us?
I completely agree with the premise of this essay. Israel has turned to the very basis of the founding of Israel. Israel’s behavior is hypocritical to their historical basis of their founding.
Project Trump's ICE attacks into the future and you have what we are seeing in Israel today. Just a prediction, unless congress takes action. Likely? Probably not.
It’s more the other way around. iCEs tactics here have been regular practice in the West Bank for decades… except there they are still far worse than even the most outrageous ICE actions.
The two are not comparable. ICE is a government sanctioned and coordinated nationwide operation.
What is happening in the West Bank are unorganized marauding groups. True, the Israeli government (ie Netanyahu) does not stop them, and probably even supports them, but they are more like fundamentalist white nationals than they are like ICE agents.
I was thinking the exactly same thing.
This situation with Netanyahu looks familiar as with Donald Trump he’s dismissive of the violence and thuggery that’s happening in his own country. I agree that we should stop or at least cut back on military aid that is being used to commit atrocities and human rights abuses against other ethnic groups in the country. The last thing they need and the U. S. needs being an ally to Israel is something like an Israeli ICE operation. I hope this can be resolved quickly and in a way that’s beneficial to every side.
Sadly, with the Trump regime's dismal record on human rights, even against US citizens, the US has no credibility lecturing lecturing Israel on human rights abuses.
We're long past the point of lecturing them.