Real men? Meaning what? What is your definition of a "real man", and then what are all the other men who are not real men? I'm not trying to be antagonistic here, just trying to gently question your terminology.
I'm not trying to correct your English, and this isn't a ESL issue. When people use the term "real men" it can mean a lot of things, many of them problematic when you examine them closely. I'm sure that's just as true in your native language. I do assume that what you meant to say is that decent, mature, moral people who treat others with basic respect don't behave that way. But that is a bit obvious, isn't it?
I hate to say this, but, this is EXACTLY why Trump won in 2024. To many people are expecting the perfect "POLITICALLY CORRECT!" response. Rather than hearing the message, they rail against the the FUCKING words used! Taking offense from those who agree with their positions and driving them to the other side! Enough already! Don't think this is just a "MAN's" point of view. Plenty of Women voted for Trump in 2024 to elect him President! DON"T FORGET THAT! AND DON"T DISMISS THAT TRUTH just because it does not fit into your pet views on how the world should operate.
My apologies for being angry. But I see this for what it is. "WOKE" is what we need to be, "WOKE" is not something to beat others up with!
Wow…. I so got where his heart of the matter seemed to be with his comment— like good, moral men who don’t need to lord their being over anyone else’s … the previous comment was about ‘men’ and he seemed to me to be saying their are those of us in this capture that are caring and respectful…. Ouch to cross examinations that seem righteous or prodding….
Your assurance seems to be totally worthless. Church Youth Pastors? Catholic Priests? Presidents? Now Union Leaders? Everyone a “real man”. You are going to have to do better than that weak tea.
Sorry too, you do disappoint me. If you are speaking for yourself, speak for yourself. Glad you think that you are a real man. Act like one. Fourth language or not.
I hear you. Possible not the word I would have chosen to describe men in this response. I don’t consider ‘men’ whether powerful or not, to be men if they rape women or anyone for that matter!They are hateful, angry, sadistic deviants who find pleasure in overpowering other people and raping them. Hardly human.
And there you have it. People, or individuals, whichever anyone prefers, can do pretty awful things. It isn’t related to gender. Whoever does it should be condemned as was put forth in Jennifer’s column today. Thankfully there are many doing the right thing in the aftermath of the revelation; too bad it took so long.
I met Ms Huerta and her daughter in 2017. She was speaking on a charter cruise I was on. Powerful woman. And she has done what other powerful women have done. Share her secrets to help other women. What a burden she must have carried for many, many years. And what courage she has to speak up now.
I’m just might start to regain the respect I used to have for the Times before they became so timid about politics. I hope this is the beginning of an upward trend. Let us be an example to the cowards on the other side that we can confront the bad side of people we thought were good. Without conflicting the good cause and the bad acts.
It is heartbreaking when we find that someone we respected and celebrated was so capable of abuse. He did some great things, but this we can't forgive this. On the other hand, the news highlights the incredibly important work of Ms. Huerta and all the people involved in the United Farm Workers and other organizations that support the crucial work of agricultural workers.
Well said Jen, I'm hoping the NYT continues its recent focus on solid journalism. This was shocking news but not surprising given the patriarchal nature of our society, indeed most of Western societies, that has always existed. Civil rights movements are not exempt from those influences. I'm hopeful that with the incredible and inspirational courage of Ms. Huerta's example there will be continued and long overdue recognition of the great harms that have been done by our patriarchal structure.
This isn't a 'Western society' issue alone -- patriarchal societies are worldwide throughout history replete with concubines and enslaved and/or repressed and abused women.
Jen's suggestion that Chavez's name be taken off street signs, plaques, buildings, must really have the president horrified, trembling with fear. Let's get his name off EVERYTHING.
Thank you. And, for what it's worth, this resident of the Southwestern U.S. has always regarded Delores Huerta as an equal leader of the farmworkers' movement.
We clearly are not done with "ME TOO." I spent 42 years working with the victims of sexual assault. That takes us back to when the first child abuse statutes were put in place. And while some things have changed (quality of investigations and treatment) nothing at all has changed. I am sick at heart that men (and sometimes women) in all levels of government, entertainment, organized religion, the aristocracy, sports, etc. etc. etc. continue to view women and children as chattel. There is something very very wrong with a culture that perpetuates such a problem. I do blame it on patriarchal systems (religion, politics, and yes, labor unions) and the patriarchal systems that fail to protect victims (FBI, law enforcement, prosecutors and the judiciary). Thank you, Jen for your response to the report. We need to continue to acknowledge the depth of the problem before we can figure out how to improve things.
Yes, agree, but as a single gay man who researched gender issues in the workplace for over 40 years, I would like to remind myself that what we are dealing with his a culture of toxic masculinity and largely subliminal social indoctrination that has persisted for millennia. We are only scratching the itch by denouncing, arresting, or imprisoning those men who have been caught crossing the movable line of socially acceptable behavior towards women (although legal strictures serve as an excellent deterrent). The effective solution is bound to be long-term and diffuse and will affect everything from social mores to social media, from boardrooms to schoolrooms, from “holy” matrimony to conversations on a bus. It will be an ongoing project that will never be finished. I am entering my 80th year of working on myself.
Jen so beautifully written. Thank you for showing that separating the individual but honoring the farm workers and their efforts is what we focus on. Had Chavez been alive he would have been dealt with.
When I saw the story in the New York Times I was worried that people with 2026 sensibilities would also put blame on Dolores Huerta. This article relieves me of that anxiety. Some 60 years ago it was impossible to raise the issue, or if a woman did all the blame would fall on her. That Huerta wholly dedicated herself to the movement and locked away her own secrets so that the movement could flourish is a testament to how much she believes in serving the interest of the many over her own.
Horrifying, vile, disgusting -- but not one bit shocking. Thank you for commenting so thoughtfully about this breaking story. I'm keeping Ms. Huerta and all the victims in my thoughts tonight.
Thoughtfully written Jen and a bit of a shock! Growing up in a farming community, I was fascinated with this movement despite the farmer’s obvious objections. Much respect to Dolores Huerta & the other survivors.
No one is perfect. We must always remember, "When people in positions of power — even those whose work has been previously honored — abuse others, they must be held responsible. When the individual has passed away, we must strive to correct the mythologies of their historical record."
Never, ever turn our backs on those who have suffered at the hands of those who thought that they could exploit their positions of power to abuse those who did not feel that they had the power and strength to fight back. When we allow one person to be exploited, we are allowing all peoples to be exploited.
The common denominator: powerful men.
Not trans men, not drag queens, not immigrants. Just men.
Most women can relate.
Hi, I can asure you that real men do not behave like this.
Real men? Meaning what? What is your definition of a "real man", and then what are all the other men who are not real men? I'm not trying to be antagonistic here, just trying to gently question your terminology.
How about "good men?"
Dear Jennifer, you know really well what I'm saying.
And for info, English is my fourth language so I might not always use your preferred word, sorry for that.
I'm not trying to correct your English, and this isn't a ESL issue. When people use the term "real men" it can mean a lot of things, many of them problematic when you examine them closely. I'm sure that's just as true in your native language. I do assume that what you meant to say is that decent, mature, moral people who treat others with basic respect don't behave that way. But that is a bit obvious, isn't it?
I think if Marc had used the word “people” all this chatter would be moot.
Agreed. And BTW, Richard...are we related?
I hate to say this, but, this is EXACTLY why Trump won in 2024. To many people are expecting the perfect "POLITICALLY CORRECT!" response. Rather than hearing the message, they rail against the the FUCKING words used! Taking offense from those who agree with their positions and driving them to the other side! Enough already! Don't think this is just a "MAN's" point of view. Plenty of Women voted for Trump in 2024 to elect him President! DON"T FORGET THAT! AND DON"T DISMISS THAT TRUTH just because it does not fit into your pet views on how the world should operate.
My apologies for being angry. But I see this for what it is. "WOKE" is what we need to be, "WOKE" is not something to beat others up with!
Wow…. I so got where his heart of the matter seemed to be with his comment— like good, moral men who don’t need to lord their being over anyone else’s … the previous comment was about ‘men’ and he seemed to me to be saying their are those of us in this capture that are caring and respectful…. Ouch to cross examinations that seem righteous or prodding….
Your assurance seems to be totally worthless. Church Youth Pastors? Catholic Priests? Presidents? Now Union Leaders? Everyone a “real man”. You are going to have to do better than that weak tea.
Sorry to have to disappoint you Claudia. I speak only for myself.
Sorry too, you do disappoint me. If you are speaking for yourself, speak for yourself. Glad you think that you are a real man. Act like one. Fourth language or not.
You are choosing the wrong enemy Claudia. You should be fighting drump and his kind of faux men.
I hear you. Possible not the word I would have chosen to describe men in this response. I don’t consider ‘men’ whether powerful or not, to be men if they rape women or anyone for that matter!They are hateful, angry, sadistic deviants who find pleasure in overpowering other people and raping them. Hardly human.
Exactly what I don't seem to be able to transmit. I despise individuals as you describe. I do not consider them as men, they are scum.
And there you have it. People, or individuals, whichever anyone prefers, can do pretty awful things. It isn’t related to gender. Whoever does it should be condemned as was put forth in Jennifer’s column today. Thankfully there are many doing the right thing in the aftermath of the revelation; too bad it took so long.
I met Ms Huerta and her daughter in 2017. She was speaking on a charter cruise I was on. Powerful woman. And she has done what other powerful women have done. Share her secrets to help other women. What a burden she must have carried for many, many years. And what courage she has to speak up now.
Some of those places commemorating Chavez should be renamed to honor her.
Organizations and municipalities are already working on it
Great!
I’m just might start to regain the respect I used to have for the Times before they became so timid about politics. I hope this is the beginning of an upward trend. Let us be an example to the cowards on the other side that we can confront the bad side of people we thought were good. Without conflicting the good cause and the bad acts.
The Times is courageous only when people are dead. They won't take on the living.
It is heartbreaking when we find that someone we respected and celebrated was so capable of abuse. He did some great things, but this we can't forgive this. On the other hand, the news highlights the incredibly important work of Ms. Huerta and all the people involved in the United Farm Workers and other organizations that support the crucial work of agricultural workers.
An abuser being held accountable? What a refreshing idea!
Sadly, he died without being confronted. Huerta was brave to self-reveal, but somewhere there are two children who will never know their parentage.
I read that she's recently reconnected with them and they've met her other children, so at least there's that.
Well said Jen, I'm hoping the NYT continues its recent focus on solid journalism. This was shocking news but not surprising given the patriarchal nature of our society, indeed most of Western societies, that has always existed. Civil rights movements are not exempt from those influences. I'm hopeful that with the incredible and inspirational courage of Ms. Huerta's example there will be continued and long overdue recognition of the great harms that have been done by our patriarchal structure.
And it is frightening and dreadful to realize the white nationalist "christians" want to again subjugate women.
Exactly my reaction.
This isn't a 'Western society' issue alone -- patriarchal societies are worldwide throughout history replete with concubines and enslaved and/or repressed and abused women.
I wish the Republican Party would learn a lesson from the farm workers and civil rights groups lightening quick response to this.
Jen's suggestion that Chavez's name be taken off street signs, plaques, buildings, must really have the president horrified, trembling with fear. Let's get his name off EVERYTHING.
I would get a train ticket to DC from Vermont to personally tear his (Trump) name from every building, and I'm 80.
My 81-year-old self would join you if I weren't caring for my 94-year old aunt who can't be left on her own...
Thank you. And, for what it's worth, this resident of the Southwestern U.S. has always regarded Delores Huerta as an equal leader of the farmworkers' movement.
We clearly are not done with "ME TOO." I spent 42 years working with the victims of sexual assault. That takes us back to when the first child abuse statutes were put in place. And while some things have changed (quality of investigations and treatment) nothing at all has changed. I am sick at heart that men (and sometimes women) in all levels of government, entertainment, organized religion, the aristocracy, sports, etc. etc. etc. continue to view women and children as chattel. There is something very very wrong with a culture that perpetuates such a problem. I do blame it on patriarchal systems (religion, politics, and yes, labor unions) and the patriarchal systems that fail to protect victims (FBI, law enforcement, prosecutors and the judiciary). Thank you, Jen for your response to the report. We need to continue to acknowledge the depth of the problem before we can figure out how to improve things.
Thank you!
Yes, agree, but as a single gay man who researched gender issues in the workplace for over 40 years, I would like to remind myself that what we are dealing with his a culture of toxic masculinity and largely subliminal social indoctrination that has persisted for millennia. We are only scratching the itch by denouncing, arresting, or imprisoning those men who have been caught crossing the movable line of socially acceptable behavior towards women (although legal strictures serve as an excellent deterrent). The effective solution is bound to be long-term and diffuse and will affect everything from social mores to social media, from boardrooms to schoolrooms, from “holy” matrimony to conversations on a bus. It will be an ongoing project that will never be finished. I am entering my 80th year of working on myself.
Jen so beautifully written. Thank you for showing that separating the individual but honoring the farm workers and their efforts is what we focus on. Had Chavez been alive he would have been dealt with.
When I saw the story in the New York Times I was worried that people with 2026 sensibilities would also put blame on Dolores Huerta. This article relieves me of that anxiety. Some 60 years ago it was impossible to raise the issue, or if a woman did all the blame would fall on her. That Huerta wholly dedicated herself to the movement and locked away her own secrets so that the movement could flourish is a testament to how much she believes in serving the interest of the many over her own.
Horrifying, vile, disgusting -- but not one bit shocking. Thank you for commenting so thoughtfully about this breaking story. I'm keeping Ms. Huerta and all the victims in my thoughts tonight.
Thoughtfully written Jen and a bit of a shock! Growing up in a farming community, I was fascinated with this movement despite the farmer’s obvious objections. Much respect to Dolores Huerta & the other survivors.
No one is perfect. We must always remember, "When people in positions of power — even those whose work has been previously honored — abuse others, they must be held responsible. When the individual has passed away, we must strive to correct the mythologies of their historical record."
Never, ever turn our backs on those who have suffered at the hands of those who thought that they could exploit their positions of power to abuse those who did not feel that they had the power and strength to fight back. When we allow one person to be exploited, we are allowing all peoples to be exploited.
So, tell me why the Epstein files haven't been released?
Could the problem be the Sex-Abuser-In-Chief?