Tomorrow is International Workers’ Day, a day to remember and honor the history of labor organizing. This year’s celebration, however, will look a little different. We know that putting workers over billionaires is absolutely critical if we want to maintain our democracy. To prove this, tomorrow workers and students everywhere will refuse school, shopping, and work.
Ezra Levin, co-founder and co-executive director of Indivisible, joins Tim Dickinson to explain why flexing our economic strength is key in the fight against authoritarianism.
To join the movement this Friday, visit MayDayStrong.org
Ezra Levin is the co-founder and co-executive director of Indivisible, a grassroots organization made up of thousands of group leaders and more than a million members taking regular, iterative, and increasingly complex actions to resist the GOPs agenda, elect local champions, and fight for progressive policies.
The following transcript has been edited for formatting purposes.
Tim Dickinson
Hi, this is Tim Dickinson. I’m a senior editor here at The Contrarian, and we’re here with our friend, Ezra Levin, who is, of course, the co-founder and fearless leader of Invisible. Ezra, how are you doing?
Ezra Levin
Well, you know, other than the fascism, Tim, I’m doing great. You know, kids are at school, everybody’s healthy, organizing, coming off of the largest protest in American history, right before May Day, this incredible show of economic strength. So, you know, things are on the upswing.
Tim Dickinson
I want to ask you about May Day of course, but I feel like the world has been so mad… and more madness with this egregious Supreme Court decision. But the last No Kings event was extraordinary, and I don’t think the organizers have gotten the sort of proper victory lap. So can you just talk about what an extraordinary turnout that was, and what that No Kings step means in the evolution of the pro-democracy movement that we’re building?
Ezra Levin
Well, yeah, Tim, look, it was the largest protest in American history. We had 3,300 protests all across 27 countries, every single congressional district, obviously every single state. From the smallest towns in the country, from the reddest communities to the bluest and most actively organized places, it was just about everywhere. You couldn’t hardly turn around without finding a No Kings protest in March, and I think that speaks to a couple things.
It speaks to just how heinous this regime’s agenda is, and how it is escalating and alienating even more Americans every day. Fractory’s own coalition with illegal Wars and with this secret police force that is stomping down on communities across the country. And it speaks to the organizing infrastructure that has been developed. I think there was an interesting tactical evolution from Trump’s regime between No Kings 2 and No Kings 3, and if folks who were watching closely would have seen people like Mike Johnson and Republicans in Congress and some Republican governors they couldn’t stop talking about No Kings in the lead-up to No Kings 2. We were going to be, you know, violent revolutionaries, we were going to be terrorists, they were coming at us, they were trying to raise the alarm.
All that was, of course, ridiculous because of the non-violent nature of the movement, but they called out the National Guard in Texas and Virginia, and they were really taking it seriously and trying to convince people not to show up. It had the exact opposite effect, though. People saw that and said, well, that’s ridiculous, I’m going to show up in my unicorn inflatable costume, and I’m gonna show up with my kids and my grandparents, and there’s gonna be dancing, and it’s gonna be joyful and powerful. And that’s what No Kings 2 was. In the lead up to No Kings 3, you couldn’t get the White House to say the phrase, No Kings. They wanted absolutely nothing to do with it. They wanted to deprive the movement of oxygen. And it didn’t work. And it didn’t work, I think, both because people are increasingly against… what Trump is doing, but it didn’t work also because that wasn’t our first rodeo. Heck, it wasn’t even our third rodeo. We’d done hands-off a year ago, where we had 3 million people out at 1,300 events, and at this point, in the pro-democracy movement-building exercise that we are all enmeshed in. People have developed a lot of skills.
These communities are organized, and they don’t need Trump’s baseless attacks in order to get more people out. They’re developing the groups and the organizing infrastructure they need to show up en masse, and the proof is in the pudding. More than 8 million people making it the largest protest in American history, which followed the previous largest protest in American history, which was No Kings 2, which itself followed the previous largest protest in American history, which was No Kings 1, These events are massive, historic in size. And not enough, Tim. And we’ll be the first to say that. They do a good job of making clear that democracy will reassert itself. They make… they do a good job of providing a easy welcome on-ramp for people who’ve never participated before, but nobody is under any illusion that when Trump tries to sabotage the midterms in 6 or 7 months, that a Saturday protest with millions of people is going to be enough. In fact, you need to develop deeper mobilizing and organizing tactics, which includes using your economic power, and that’s what Meta is all about.
Tim Dickinson
Right, and so that’s a perfect segue. So, help us understand, because this really is a… change in strategy, right? Instead of mobilizing people to do something, turn out, have a big street party, show their dissent. this is in some ways, a withholding, right? A stepping back from economic life. And so, I know for technical reasons, we don’t call it a general strike, but I think for the general public, a general strike is kind of the right idea, right? No work, no school. no shopping. And so, help me understand what the strategic aim is here, and how that presents an evolution, and if there are risks to it, and what you’re excited to see, how this works out.
Ezra Levin
Yeah, and strike has a technical term in labor circles, and that’s why it’s not technically strike, but you’re right to point to the tactics here. And I would actually… I don’t know if this is pedantic, and sorry, maybe I’m just so in organizing world that I, like, I get obsessed with these individual word choices, but I would view this as not a strategic change, because the strategy is the same. We have a goal, a strategy, and several tactics. The goal is prevent an authoritarian from consolidating power and undermining our democratic institutions. The strategy is the same for everything we do, and that strategy is mass organized nonviolent people power. Every tactic we engage in feeds up to that strategy by organizing and mobilizing masses of nonviolent groups of people in communities all across the country.
We believe that strategy helps us achieve the goal. Individual tactics are plentiful. Like, we have a lot of individual tactics. You go to a town hall, you write an op-ed, you ask your member of Congress to vote a certain way, you endorse a primary candidate, you get out the vote, you mobilize in a big way to send the message that the people aren’t going to put up with this. And another tactic, this is what we’re talking about here, this is a tactical escalation beyond just mobilizing on a Saturday, but flexing the economic power, not on a weekend, but on a Friday. And it’s a higher bar ask. It is a more difficult tactic. to pull off, but it’s a more difficult tactic with payoff. You actually, you get something more out of it, and this isn’t just a hypothetical.
We’ve seen the effect of economic power in the last 16 months. Some of the most successful examples of activism during the Trump era have not just been protests, they’ve been flexing economic power, from the Tesla events, to the Avello events, to focusing on Disney to try to get Kimmel back on the air, to pushing Spotify to take ice ads off of their shows. There has been repeated examples Of nationwide use of economic power to push the regime and affiliate groups and people who might collaborate with the regime to change their behavior. And there’s not been a better example of this that I’ve seen that matches more clearly what we’re trying to do in May Day than what we saw in the Twin Cities in January. Because in January, we saw tens of thousands of faith leaders and teachers and nurses and community members come out for what they called a Day of Truth and Freedom. And they similarly were saying, don’t go to work. Don’t go to school, don’t shop, show up together in community and say, this regime that is trying to put its boot on this community is not supported, and we will not stand by. We will not contribute to this economy and just allow them to continue doing this.
And it was only a few days later that Trump had to back off, not because Trump personally was negatively impacted, like, he didn’t lose money based on that, but the PR disaster that was being created for his regime, he saw he was losing because enough people were saying, yeah, you’re right, I don’t like a secret police force that’s murdering Americans in our streets. I agree with the faith leaders who are out there. I’m glad that they are doing this. I support them. That is the goal for withholding your economic power. It actually gets more attention, it pushes more institutions, and the point of doing it on Friday, on May Day, is not because if we show up big on May Day, suddenly we’ve saved democracy, and Trump will announce defeat. No, the point is actually to test where are we strong? Where do we need to grow? What creative tactics work and are worth replicating. And what do we need to do between now and the midterms, so when the sabotage is at our doorstep, we’re ready to click go, and we’re not doing it for the first time?
Tim Dickinson
Can you speak a little bit to the fact that this is happening on May Day, which is a day of international solidarity? And what the events are going to look like. People are obviously, you know, withholding from shopping, but they’re also going to be, I think, more than a thousand events last time I checked on the map. So what kind of events can people plug into and actually show up in the streets in a way that might be fairly familiar for somebody who’s gone to a No Kings event?
Ezra Levin
Look, because we’re a very diverse country, geographically diverse, we’re all facing different constraints, and there are different opportunities based on where we are, so what I would say is it’s going to look different in different places, but I’ll paint you a little bit of a picture of what it’ll look like. In some places, students are going to walk out of their classes. In some places, entire school systems are going to close down. In some places, lots of unionized workers are going to decline to show up to work. In some places, you’re going to see shops empty. In some places, you’re going to see protests during the workday. In some places, you’re going to see this before or after school or after work. In some places, there are going to be individuals meeting together as a community to talk about how they can strategically deprive the economy that day of their economic resources, and how they can show up going forward. So, what I don’t want people to think is, well, I can’t afford to miss work, or I’m an essential worker, therefore I’m not going to participate in May Day. I can’t do it all, therefore I’m not going to be part of this. I don’t accept that. I think a lot of people are going to do a lot, and some people are going to do a little, and we need to welcome everybody in who can be part of this in any way possible, because May Day is not Victory Day. This is not the day that we say democracy is saved. This is a day where we can work out on tactical escalation, we can build community together, and then we can identify where we need to grow between now and the midterm.
So the number one thing I would recommend people do is go to the May Day Strong website, just maydaystrong.org. You’ll find protests and events on their map, like you said, thousands, actually, all across the country that you can be part of, but don’t be alone on Friday. Even if you’ve got to go to work, even if you’ve got to go to school, be part of a community that is committed to building this pro-democracy movement, and figure out how you can get involved both on May Day and then beyond. That’s how we actually build towards success.
Tim Dickinson
You, you preview both on your website and here in our conversation this idea that this is connected to something that Trump might do in the midterms, right? He might monkey with elections in some way, ICE might show up at polls. Who knows what’s going to happen? So, can you talk a little bit… connect those dots for me, paint this forward. We’re building strength for what exactly? What are you imagining?
Ezra Levin
This is front and center in our own tactical planning, because… We operate in a particular framework, Tim, all the organizing that we do, and it’s based on assessment that Trump fits the mold of an authoritarian. And that’s not unique in the world. There are plenty of authoritarians in the world who have risen within democratic societies and have consolidated power and then sought to undermine the opposition. There’s a framework for that, and Trump fits very much within that framework. He’s modeled his second administration in no small part on Orbans, Hungary, where Orban has been in… had been in for 16 years, he had attacked civil society, he had attacked the opposition, he had systematically consolidated power and undermined the elections. And, there was a lot of fear that Orban was going to sabotage the election results this year that took place just a couple of weeks ago.
The result was better than anyone expected. The result was an election outcome that was a massive defeat for the authoritarian there, and it was so massive that he couldn’t really contest the results. As much as the pro-democracy advocates had worried that he might try to sabotage, he didn’t. I hope that’s the world we live in, Tim. I really do, because I think we’re headed towards a midterm blowout for Trump and Republicans in November. That’s what all of the special election evidence shows, that’s what all the polling shows, and that’s what common sense shows, that people oppose this regime, they’re not going to give Republicans more power. And while I hope for that, Tim, I’m not counting on it, because we don’t know if Trump will simply accept the election results. What I expect to see over the next 6 or 7 months from this regime is a decline in authoritarian who lashes out more and more as he sees power slipping out of his grasp. And that means, I would expect, more foreign entanglements in wars of choice or operations. in places like Cuba, or Greenland, or elsewhere, I would expect more use of his secret police force.
I would expect more use of DOJ and the broader Justice Department to go after opposition like they’re doing in the Southern Poverty Law Center right now. And I would expect and plan for some sort of election sabotage, even in the event that there’s a blowout. That is a standard part of the authoritarian playbook that may or may not play out in the United States, but it would be irresponsible for us to not take seriously Trump’s public planning to engage in some sort of midterm election sabotage, and we know if and when that happens, a massive Saturday protest, a No Kings with 20 million people out on Saturday or something, even that isn’t going to be enough to safeguard the democratic institutions. At that point, what we need is to match the breadth of the No Kings organizing every in the country, millions of people coming out, with the depth of the organizing that we saw in a place like the Twin Cities on the Day of Truth and Freedom, where people are not just protesting, but are exercising that economic might to force society to pay attention, to stop, to listen, and to repel the regime. That’s what we’re preparing for with media. That’s what we’re preparing for as we hold No Kings protests and other actions. We are trying to build the movement and strengthen it so we’re ready to go come the midterms.
Tim Dickinson
There’s just been this, assaultive Supreme Court decision on voting rights, and I know that on April 30th, you guys are holding a call Thursday, to have a response to that. What can people expect if they tune in for that?
Ezra Levin
Well, so, for folks who weren’t tracking, they’ve just gutted the Voting Rights Act, further. They have essentially given a message to the states that gerrymandering’s A-OK by, as far as the Supreme Court is concerned, and so I think what you can expect is a lot of southern states will seek to use this decision, as quickly as possible to deprive mainly brown and black people of representation in Congress and in state houses, in state legislatures. That’s the likely impact of this. The immediate impact is not as severe as the medium-term impact, which is to say, states like Texas that have already gone through their gerrymandering and already set their, set their primaries, that ship has sailed, and there are several states where this decision has come too late for them to have an impact on the 2026 midterms.
I believe many of those states, though, will then take advantage of this right-wing ruling in order to remake their election infrastructure headed into 2028. So, the question is, what do you do about that? Well, we’ve seen instances, even in the last year, even in the Trump era this time, of successful organizing in Republican states against gerrymandering efforts. Most recently, in Indiana. They tried to muscle through a gerrymander. They have the votes, it’s a Republican-controlled state, but there was enough opposition within the state legislature, and there was enough advocacy on the They got scared off of it, they decided not to do it. I’m not gonna say we can win in every state that’s seeking to do a racial gerrymander. I think some will muscle it through, but I think we gotta fight them all.
I think we gotta build up as much opposition to this as we possibly can, and maybe we stop it, or maybe we make them pay a political price for what they’re trying to do. Unfortunately, look, this isn’t honestly that much of a surprise. Roberts made his career on gunning the Voting Rights Act. He’s been at this for many, many decades, as you know, and it’s not just Trump who views representative democracy as a threat to his agenda. That’s broadly how the right wing views representative democracy. They think of it as an inconvenience that a lot of people are voting and expect their representatives to represent them. Because a lot of people wouldn’t vote for a secret police force. A lot of people wouldn’t vote for a war with Iran. A lot of people wouldn’t vote for tax cuts for billionaires while they jack up your healthcare prices. Like, that’s not thing… those aren’t things that are popular, and so you’ve got this conundrum. How do I pursue an agenda that systematically enriches billionaires while also having a democracy that represents the will of the people. And the Republicans have an answer to that.
Well, let’s just prevent people from voting and being represented in government. It’s a neat solution. It’s a smart solution if you are committed to not moderating your agenda, and that’s where they are. The good news is, this is still a Democratic-Republic, Tim. This is not a fascist government. This is not yet an authoritarian society. We still have the power of the First Amendment, we have the power of the vote, and we have the power to organize non-violently but insistently for our rights. And we gotta fight for those rights, and that’s what we should be doing in this moment in the aftermath of Calais.
Tim Dickinson
And bring this back to May Day for us. What else can people do, thinking about voting rights and getting back out there on… and participating in this? event on Friday.
Ezra Levin
Look, in this democracy of ours, we’ve talked about this before, it… unless you’re super rich or super famous, you as an individual, you don’t have much power. That’s the reality of how we’ve distributed political power in this country. It’s parceled out in geographic units. You’ve got a city councilperson, you’ve got a state rep, you’ve got a U.S. rep, you’ve got a couple U.S. senators. That’s how we distribute political power in this country, which means your power is not as an individual, but it’s in a group that’s geographically located somewhere. So what’s the point of a May Day?
Part of it is to flex economic power, but a big part of it is to create organized communities that can build that power, and then wield that power. So if there’s one recommendation I have, it’s beyond the specific tactic that you might use, or the specific day, it’s more. Get connected to your community. Maybe that’s an indivisible group, maybe it’s a 50-50 one group, maybe it’s something else, but don’t be alone on Friday. Find who is organizing and help them build up. You wouldn’t see Trump and others directly attacking organized nonviolent people power if they weren’t scared of it. But they do. It’s the one thing he and every authoritarian fears, and that’s good news, because you have the power to do it.
Tim Dickinson
Well, Ezra, thank you so much for your time. It’s always great to hear from you.
Ezra Levin
Great talking to ya, Tim.
Tim Dickinson
Take it easy.
