The Department of Homeland Security has violently weaponized ICE against the American people. The absolute lawlessness of these masked agents has wreaked chaos and death across the country, — Minnesota is now their center stage. Enough is enough.
During his interview with Jen, Senator Chris Van Hollen (D-MD) asserts that these operations will not receive one more dime of taxpayer money from Senate Democrats. As Sen. Van Hollen and Jen react to the brutal murder of Alex Pretti, the line in the sand is clear. From an untrustworthy, deceitful administration to pathetic egotistical efforts to rename everything after Trump, the fascists are spinning out of control and taking down democracy with them.
Listen to Jen and Senator Val Hollen’s full interview for details on how Senate Democrats are protesting the proposed DHS funding bill, the jaw dropping reactions to Minnesota, and what we can do to fight back.
Chris Van Hollen is the Democratic Senator for Maryland. He is the ranking member on the Subcommittee on Financial Services and General Government and sits on various others, such as Homeland Security.
The following transcript has been edited for clarity.
Jen Rubin
Hi, this is Jen Rubin, editor-in-Chief of the Contrarian. We’re delighted to have with us one of the moral and political leaders in the Senate, Senator Chris Van Halen from Maryland. Welcome, Senator.
Sen. Chris Van Hollen
Jen, good to be with you again.
Jen Rubin
The appalling events in Minnesota, the execution of a young man, the lies, the smearing, the refusal to investigate, has clearly shaken the country. Has it made a difference on Capitol Hill?
Sen. Chris Van Hollen
Well, it should make a difference to anybody with a conscience who has viewed those horrible events that you described. First, the killing of you know, Rachel Good, and then, of course, we saw Alex Pretty, and then the lies and cover-up, and calling them the domestic terrorists, when the real domestic terrorists right now are in the White House and terrorizing the country. So… There are some indications that some Republicans, are looking at the same Tapes and videos of everybody else’s, and recoiling in horror. What they’re prepared to do about it, Jan, I don’t know yet. What we want to do, what the Democrats in the Senate want to do, is separate out the DHS Appropriations bill, the Department of Homeland Security Appropriations Bill, from the other five, right? The other five include, you know, Department of Defense, Department of Labor, many other things. and say, let’s just focus on dramatic reforms and reining in of ICE and Customs and Border Patrol. and we also demand accountability. Whether Republicans will join us or not, we don’t know, but we have enough Democrats to stop the package from proceeding at this point in time.
Jen Rubin
The House has left town. We’ve yet to hear from the Speaker of the House. If we can get agreement to pull out DHS, what happens then? Does the House scramble back, or do we have a partial shutdown while they get their act together and return to Washington, D.C?
Sen. Chris Van Hollen
Well, the House would have to scramble back, but that’s their job. Their job is to come back and be part of this process. There’s nothing that requires the Senate to take what the House sent to the Senate as is. And I would also point out that when they considered these bills in the House, they considered them separately. So, for example, they voted separately on the Department of Homeland Security bill, and Democrats overwhelmingly voted against it. And so, in the Senate, we’re saying we should do the same thing. We should be able to vote individually, or at least individually on DHS on this, so that we can demand the reforms we want.
Jen Rubin
Let’s talk about accountability. Are we talking about, demanding the resignation of Christi Noem? Are we talking about allowing the state and localities to prosecute these people? What does accountability look like in your mind?
Sen. Chris Van Hollen
Well, I certainly am in favor of getting rid of Secretary Noem. I mean, she has been one of the big liars in this administration, and always out front jumping to conclusions, and blaming the victims for their own killings, so she needs to go. I mean, I’m in favor of impeaching Christy Noem. We also want ICE out of Minneapolis. I also think that we should have a requirement, Jen, that if ICE is going to go into any city or state in big numbers, that should require the consent of the governor and the mayor, just as we have with National Guard deployments. I mean, when you’ve got… ICE has essentially become an army. I mean, it’s bigger than the armies of most countries, and they are occupying cities like Minneapolis against the wishes of the people who live there, so that has to be part of it. There’s a whole slew of changes to rein in ICE, everything from no masks, to requiring ID, to requiring body cams. Also, making sure people have warrants before they arrest people, and obviously, they should respect the Fourth Amendment and not go crashing into people’s houses. There’s a… I have a long list of that, but the fundamental issue also is this accountability question. Because what’s happening is… Donald Trump and Noem and Steve Miller are sending the message to all of these officers that they can act with impunity, and literally get away with killing people. without… without any review, so I believe strongly we need that accountability piece.
Jen Rubin
The administration now seems to be saying, well, we’ll look at it, we’ll review it. Do you trust any aspect of the federal government, the FBI, let alone DHS, to conduct a real investigation, or does this have to be taken out of the Fed’s hands at this point?
Sen. Chris Van Hollen
Oh, it’s a very sad moment in our country, Jan. I mean, you cannot trust a word that comes out of these Trump-run organizations. In fact. following Trump’s orders, regardless of how lawless they are, is now a condition of working in these departments, which is why I do want to take a moment and just salute all those folks who have quit rather than follow illegal orders, right? Like the six prosecutors in Minneapolis, like an FBI agent who was investigating Rachel Good and was obstructed. I do want to salute all of them, but you’re right. In order to have a true independent investigation, we have to take it out of the administration’s hands, because they’ve already declared what happened, right? I mean, the President of the United States and Kristi Noem have said this person was a domestic terrorist, and they’re just lying. So yes, it requires taking it out of that form.
Jen Rubin
Absolutely. It’s interesting that our friends who believe so strongly in the Second Amendment seem to have been advancing the notion that because Alex Pereti was carrying a licensed firearm. He was, of course, disarmed before he was executed. Somehow that that made him a target. Do people like Rand Paul, do people, who have touted the Second Amendment, refused any kind of restrictions on the Second Amendment, have they woken up? Do they see that this is now a rogue administration that doesn’t protect even their favored part of the Bill of Rights?
Sen. Chris Van Hollen
you know, I’ve heard some voices on the right talking about that. You’re right, I mean, it’s jaw-dropping, right? I mean, essentially what they’re saying, I saw Scott Besson on the air, that this individual who had a license to have a Have a firearm. just because he was there at this protest deserved, essentially, the treatment he got, right? That he was a target, open target, because he had a legal firearm. So, I think that you put your finger on something that is really going to begin to roil. the right, because it was… he was complying with the law. He was peacefully there, he was filming what was happening. And he had a legal registered firearm. So they should be appalled, absolutely.
Jen Rubin
Absolutely. The people of Minneapolis have been extraordinary in remaining calm, in remaining peaceful, in avoiding, protest that devolves into violence. They have peacefully protested, 50,000 of them out on the street, on Friday. What would you say to those people who are incredibly frustrated, who have shown such resilience, and yet. Every day, they’re frankly being attacked by ICE, assaulted, in some cases, killed. What can you say to the people who are so frustrated, by the ongoing occupation?
Sen. Chris Van Hollen
Well, Jen, the first thing I would say to them is thank you, because you are the people who are giving us all hope in standing up for our rights, our Constitution. our democracy, for we the people. And without that show of peaceful support, I’d be very very fearful, even more fearful about what will happen in our country. I’m very… I’m very fearful now, but what gives me hope is people standing up in Minneapolis and other places around the country for their neighbors, literally blowing whistles on the lawless Trump operations. I will also say that speaking for myself, I will do everything in my power in the United States Senate to ensure that these lawless operations do not get one more dime. That we rein them in, that we hold people accountable. If we don’t hold people accountable at this moment, Jen, the signal will go out for months and years to come. that you literally have a license to kill our fellow citizens and others with impunity, and we cannot allow that to happen. This is a critical moment.
Jen Rubin
Absolutely.
Sen. Chris Van Hollen
You know, we’re 250 years… we’re celebrating 250 years of the Declaration of Independence. This is a really important moment in protecting those rights.
Jen Rubin
Absolutely. I wonder if your Republican colleagues, pick Susan Collins. ISIS descendant on her state. They arrested, without any provocation, a African American corrections officer, an American citizen. When does she begin to feel the heat? What do you say to her, and what do her constituents say to her about her refusal to stand up to this administration?
Sen. Chris Van Hollen
Well, her constituents should demand accountability, because, as you indicated, they are also experiencing the lawless operations, you know, unleashed by this White House, and this Department of Homeland Security. So, she needs to stand up at this point. I would argue every Republican should stand up at this point. Anybody who cares about the Constitution and freedom in America should be standing up at this point. And her constituents need to hold her accountable, just like everybody in this process needs to be held accountable.
Jen Rubin
Absolutely. I would be remiss if I didn’t ask you about some of the other outrages that are going on with this administration. It may seem like a small item, but it’s indicative of Donald Trump’s sense of impunity and his indifference to the lives of non-white Americans. He seems to be on the rampage to, of all things, take over the public golf courses of Washington, D.C, which have been, for years, a, source of, athletic and really social, joy to many African Americans who have been excluded traditionally from golf courses. Just like he tried to knock down the East Wing and did that, just like he is apparently trying to, remake the rest of Washington. He seems to be taking over golf courses. What is that about? And I understand that you and some of your colleagues in the DC, Maryland, Virginia area have written to him about that. Talk to us a little bit about what that’s about.
Sen. Chris Van Hollen
Right. Senator Ulsterbrooks and I and others from this area have written to the President saying, you know, hands off of the public golf courses in the District of Columbia. These are golf courses that have been open to the public. Over… they have a history of serving the African American population, along with everybody else. And here comes Donald Trump, who wants to take them over. Look, this is all about power and control and essentially renaming everything in the country after himself, certainly everything in Washington, D.C. And so, we are going to fight this, tooth and nail, but it is part of that larger pattern, as you say.
Jen Rubin
Yes.
Sen. Chris Van Hollen
with the East Wing and everything else. And so, there are a number of lawsuits that have been filed in the case of the East Wing. There’ll be lawsuits involved in the… in protecting these public golf courses. And then, you know. Senator Sanders and I have introduced legislation that would prohibit any sitting president from naming these monuments after him or herself. I mean, this is Mussolini-style, tactics.
Jen Rubin
Yes, I mean…
Sen. Chris Van Hollen
let’s just put statutes up to the dear leader all over Washington, D.C, rename the Kennedy Center, rename the Institute of Peace. we need to put an end to this. This is what dictators do, right? They try to take over not just the military and the politics, but also the culture. And that’s what we’re witnessing from this spread. The good news is, right now in Italy, there are no statues or mines monuments to Mussolini, and that will also be true here in our nation’s capital when we rid ourselves of this president.
Jen Rubin
Hopefully it won’t take a world war to accomplish that, and we are fighting every day for that. What do you see? Let me take a step back. You’ve been around Washington a long time, you’re a student of history. Is this one of these inflection moments? You can think of the women who plunged to their death at the Shirtwaist Triangle Fire and sparked the labor movement. We can think of the Edmund Pettus Bridge and the effect that had on the Voting Rights Act. Are we potentially at a cusp of an inflection point where the country can see not the politics of it, but simply the morality, the rightness, the wrongness of what’s going on?
Sen. Chris Van Hollen
I believe so. I believe we are at one of those crossroads in our country. When you can see Americans getting gunned down. executed by the state in Minneapolis, as we’ve seen in these cases, but all the other lawless operations of this administration, the gross corruption of this presidency. You add all of that up, and we are at a moment. And I do think these latest, you know, state executions in Minnesota, Minneapolis, they are one of those moments where everybody, regardless of party, should be able to look at that. and say, no, that cannot be the future of our country, and we do need to rally together at this point. So, this is why, Jen, it’s so important that we not just, you know, say, okay, this was a terrible thing, and let’s move on. We need to confront this immorality.
Jen Rubin
Absolutely, and, I wanna… Salute you, Senator. You have seen the damage and the danger from the beginning. Perhaps people could not relate to Kilmar, Orego, Garcia in the same way they should have. But now I think it’s inescapable, what is going on, and perhaps Americans, would be roused. What would you like American citizens to do this week? There’s a lot going on in DC. What should they do? be doing? What can they do to help?
Sen. Chris Van Hollen
Well, first, on Kilmar Abrego-Garcia, he is still being politically prosecuted and persecuted by this administration. Thank goodness we got him back into the American court system. They would have left him forever in the gulag in Sekot, where people had been tortured. We keep hearing more and more horrifying reports about that. But you’re right, that was one of the very… first instances where the Trump administration snatched somebody off our streets and just disappeared them, in that case, to El Salvador. And I think since then, people have just seen that that was the leading edge of all these horrifying actions that this administration has taken. So what… look, I want every American to know they have agency. And when I, you know, I go to events around our state and other places in the country, and people say, what are we gonna do? And my response is, you know, there’s no Calvary coming over the hill, right, to save us. It really is you, and me, and all of us together. I ask people to look in front of them, behind them, and to their left and right. Because only we, the people, together, can get this done, which is why I just want to, again, salute the people in Minneapolis. And what I ask of my fellow Marylanders, and people in every other state, is that they do the same. Look out for their neighbors, look out for our Constitution. We had a big rally in Hagerstown, Maryland, just last week. Hundreds of people, you know this state, that’s western Maryland, it’s a more conservative area. Hundreds of people came out in very cold weather to protest against the possibility that ICE was going to use a facility in Washington County, essentially to warehouse, more people who they were snatching up. And people were there, essentially blowing the whistle, saying no. And so. All of us have the power to do that, which we should also call out, and I know you have. We do need to call out the collaborators with this, right? Because there need to be consequences, even if it’s just in the public sphere. So. The big law firms and the universities and the corporations who were all coddling up to this administration. They are putting the rest of us at risk, our rights at risk, and so we do need to call them out, including those folks who were at the… there was a showing, right, of this film at the White House of Melania the other day, and there were the big CEOs, while our citizens were literally being gunned down in Minneapolis. We need to call… as we praise those who are standing up, we need to call out those who are complicit and who are appeasing this… this tyrant.
Jen Rubin
Absolutely. Senator, we’re so grateful that you came to speak with you. You’ve been such a voice of clarity and moral courage. We thank you, and we will be looking to Washington. encouraging our contrarians to call their congressmen, to call their senators, and tell them enough is enough. So thank you so much, and we will look forward to speaking to you soon.
Sen. Chris Van Hollen
Well, thank you, and we… we contrarians need to stick together. Thanks for your voice.
Jen Rubin
Absolutely. Thanks so much, Heather. Bye-bye.
Sen. Chris Van Hollen
Thank you.
