A whistleblower complaint lodged against National Security Director Tulsi Gabbard in May 2025 has allegedly been hand delivered to select lawmakers within the last 24 hours. While the subject of the complaint is unknown to the general public, it is reportedly so highly classified that the intelligence committee’s “Gang of Eight” are only reading its contents now.
Senator Mark Warner (D-VA), one of the “Gang of Eight",” joins Jen prior to the complaint’s distribution to share what he can about the situation. Sen. Warner expresses his distrust of Gabbard’s leadership and qualifications for the position, leading to a vibrant discussion concerning the FBI raid of Fulton County’s 2020 ballot boxes [or voter files]. The pair juggle the ongoing threat to federalize our elections, upcoming votes on five funding bills, and Trump’s eagle eye on poll numbers.
Mark R. Warner is a U.S. Senator from the Commonwealth of Virginia. He serves as Vice Chairman of the Select Committee on Intelligence and as a member of the Senate Finance, Banking, Budget, and Rules Committees.
Jen Rubin
Hi, this is Jen Rubin, Editor-in-Chief of the Continarian. We are delighted to have back Senator Mark Warner from the Commonwealth of Virginia. Welcome!
Sen. Mark R. Warner
Thank you, Jen.
Jen Rubin
We were discussing briefly before coming on that it’s an extraordinary day, and a series of extraordinary days in this presidency. Let’s talk first about a whistleblower complaint that apparently involves Tulsi Gabbard, that the Gang of Eight is just now getting to take a look at. What do you know about it, and why wasn’t this provided to you sooner?
Sen. Mark R. Warner
Well, first, I have not seen it yet. I believe I should be seeing it in the next day or two. But that’s the rub, Jen. Tulsi Gabbard, during her confirmation hearing, said, of course, she’ll protect whistleblowers and honor the requirement. The requirement is Once the whistleblower makes the complaint, it is… there’s 2 weeks to review the merit, then I think a week to go through other process. But within 3 weeks, you’re supposed to be turning it over to Congress. Well, this complaint, we find, was filed in June. So if she followed the law, she should have gotten it to us by, you know, say, end of July, even if we’d give up a little bit. I don’t think any in the Gang of Eight even knew about it until November, And then… It’s taken… whatever. two and a half, three months, for the Gang of Eight to negotiate. I mean, this is… this is not just Democrat Mark Warner. This is a kind of a screw-you to the Speaker of the House, John Thune, the Majority Leader of the Senate, as well as the chairs of the House and Senate Intelligence Committee. So we have We have no idea. And again, there’s, there is a reason we had a process, and again, Ms. Gabbard I’ve obviously called for her resignation or firing many times. If there’s one more example of why she’s not qualified to do this job. And something that should not be in any way a partisan matter.
Jen Rubin
And you can’t simply scream national security. Any whistleblower complaint about DNI is going to have some national security implications, is that right?
Sen. Mark R. Warner
Absolutely. And again, that’s why you have the Gang of Eight. The Gang of Eight is supposed to be trusted. You know, I understand they might not want to put it to the whole committee, or they might not want to put it to the whole Congress. And anyway, and again, there are many of the whistleblower complaints end up not having that much merit, so I can’t judge at all on the merits yet. But that’s still… It’s not… after the initial assessment, it’s then not up to the agency that’s being… or the whistleblower makes a complaint to make that determination, at least in terms of notifying Congress.
Jen Rubin
Let’s move over to a very strange occurrence that we had in Fulton County, Georgia. The FBI came in, and pursuant to a warrant, we don’t know the underlying facts yet, seized ballots. Now, remembering that the federal government has no role constitutionally in elections, that was strange enough. But Tulsi Gabbard was on the scene, and apparently put the president on with some of the FBI agents. What do you know about this, and how strange is this?
Sen. Mark R. Warner
Well, it’s so strange. It’s so wacky. It’s so unconstitutional. You don’t believe it, and then you see it happening. We all know a couple things. Donald Trump lost the 2020 election. He lost Georgia. That has been litigated, recounted, disputed. The idea that he somehow is still obsessed about this, and was able to generate a search warrant, which, by the way. the FBI agent in charge of the Atlanta office somehow has either been fired, demoted, or left, so that would, in itself, was a bit of a smoking gun in terms of what he or she thought about this complaint. The complaint itself was not fired by the U.S. Attorney from Georgia, but filed by a U.S. Attorney from Missouri. And then they come in and without having… now I think it’s breaking the appropriate warrant and collect all this data from the 2020 election. And lo and behold, the Director of National Intelligence is there. The Director of National Intelligence has no domestic criminal investigation powers. Matter of fact, the law is very clear that the agencies that she, is supposed to help coordinate are all of our foreign intelligence agencies that spy on foreigners. They don’t spy on America. This is what even set up the Intelligence Committee back in the 70s, after the abuses of the Nixon administration. So, she shouldn’t have been there. She’s outside her lane. And then you get this next outrageous moment where, you know, line FBI agents who are doing a search warrant she’s somehow commandeering to get the president on the line. And the idea that there’s not somebody, a White House counsel, even if Gabbard doesn’t know the law, a White House counsel that wouldn’t say, Mr. President, you’re not supposed to be involved. directly in a criminal investigation, especially this early. So it all… it all stinks to high heaven, and one of the things that I think we just gotta worry about is when… This just becomes another story. we normalize this behavior. And, you know, I’ve gotten… Jen, we’ve talked in the past, and I know what the… we were having this conversation a year ago, you know, the pres… in the first couple weeks of the President’s administration. You know, when people say, will there be… should we worry about the security of our 26 and 28 elections? I would have genuinely said, well, we’re probably okay, you know. But a year later, I am very worried. They’ve… Gabbard has dismantled the legally required Office of Foreign Malign Influence at the Director of National Intelligence. The FBI’s gotten rid of their election security center, they’ve cut the funding for the cybersecurity agency that’s supposed to help make our… our elections safe from intruders. You combine that with Trump’s comments, which I’m sure we’re gonna get to, about nationalizing the elections, and if you’re not. I’ve said this once or twice, scared as hell, you should be, because I very well fear… I’m not sure what the play will be, but I think this crowd is looking at trying to interfere in our elections.
Jen Rubin
So, it’s fair to say that as obsessed as Trump is and was about the 2020 election, you see this as a test run, if you will, a dress rehearsal for what may come going forward, as opposed to simply another episode in this consistent, persistent view that he has, that he actually won in 2020. Is that…
Sen. Mark R. Warner
Yeah, I think, listen, there may be some smokescreen of… remember there was one theory that an Italian satellite somehow broke in. There was another theory that Venezuela… I mean, there was… there have been more debunked theories. And that may be… you know, I don’t think any of those have validity, and if they end up having validity, I will, I will, you know, change my tune, but I think using this kind of flimsy, flimsy excuse and his obsession, I almost wonder if they’re testing the system to see how far they can go before Somebody pushes back. And… we’ll see if our Republican friends, my Republican colleagues will push back on this, because the irony here, especially about the kind of federal movement towards elections. Historically, it’s always been Republicans Who are terrified about the federal government interfering at all in state and local elections, and this is the complete opposite now taking place.
Jen Rubin
Exactly. And Donald Trump, what he said was that we, we, meaning Republicans, he didn’t even say the federal government, Republicans should nationalize the election, particularly in 15 states, he said, which no doubt are blue states. The Constitution explicitly gives the states, the purview of running elections. with very few exceptions, the Voting Rights Act, which, frankly, they’re in the process of trying to dismantle because they claim states’ rights, is one big exception. But there is no federal role, and no role for the president in running elections. So what could be the possible justification for this kind of statement and this kind of behavior?
Sen. Mark R. Warner
You’ve still got a journalist heart there. You’re asking the question when… I’m not sure there is any justification. I mean, this is… this is… we’re… we’re… we’re all kind of so immune that the president saying he wants to disregard the Constitution, encouraging one political party to take over the election system. is not… the news that’s screaming, you know, everybody listen. We’ve just normalized, and I do fear, you know, what… how that could, lead. If you were able to nationalize, could you have tinkering with the vote totals? You know, could you have the ex… you know, the excuse of, protest being charged with then bringing in the… bringing in the army under the Insurrection Act. I am… we are all greatly afraid with these roving ICE bands that we see in Minneapolis and other cities. Could those ICE roving bands be used to try to go and intimidate voters at the polling station. These are all things that You know, sounded… Maybe way out or draconian a year ago, or a year and a half ago, but they are at our front door right now.
Jen Rubin
Absolutely. And this goes hand-in-hand, of course, with these outrageous, unconstitutional demands that the states turn over their raw voting files so that the administration, presumably, could know which votes they want to count and which ones they don’t want to count. the…
Sen. Mark R. Warner
I know I should sit calmly, but…
Jen Rubin
What are you doing?
Sen. Mark R. Warner
just said…
Jen Rubin
is probably the case that the federal government is going to look at voter rules and then say, well, who’s the ones that voted? Because you can figure out who voted in a Democratic primary and say, we may not count those votes or those precincts, it’s…
Sen. Mark R. Warner
And we’re talking about this in a relatively calm tone of voice.
Jen Rubin
It is absolutely unbelievable, you are right, and it still shocks the conscience that they’re up to this. Now, I will say, the Majority Leader John Thune, was asked about this, and he said, oh no, I don’t think that we should be federalizing elections. This is a role, and he said, constitutionally, for the states. That seemed to be a very important statement. What would you like to see happen in the Congress, in terms of getting more Republicans to speak out, in terms of having some generalized statement or resolution to see if these elections can, in fact, be protected from federal meddling?
Sen. Mark R. Warner
Well, that’s a… that’s a great question. Maybe one of the things I should do, or journalists should do, is go back and look at every one of the Republican senators and House members, what they said when… even at a… when CISA, the cybersecurity agency, was trying to provide free tools about cyber protections, and how many people were concerned, oh my gosh, there’s federal feds coming into our elections. And hold their feet to the fire, but I… I just… it again goes to kind of where we are in our political environment today. I would hope more people would join Majority Leader Thune, but I imagine it’s going to take Journalists and some of us on the other side to point out the earlier comments, because this is… Anybody wouldn’t believe this could potentially… that the potential for great mischief would arise. Yeah. Didn’t follow in the throne.
Jen Rubin
Let me close with, some questions about the DHS spending bill. The House finally did its job, they came back, they voted, to fully fund the five other bills, and to give a very short window to fund, DHS. What are the… reforms that the Senate, Senate Democrats, at least, are coalescing around, and is there any indication from Mr. Thune and other Republicans that they might join with those?
Sen. Mark R. Warner
Well, they are kind of common sense. I mean… Yeah. cameras on, masks off. I mean, you know, our normal police forces don’t wear masks all the time. Trying to make sure there’s some warrant process, trying to make sure these roving patrols, which just seem to be knocking on people’s doors and picking people up, get dispensed with. Trying to make sure there’s some level of accountability. These are not radical transformations, they’re kind of getting back ice to where it was, you know, 10 years ago, or 8 years ago, you name the time. Whether there will be… Any, give? I don’t know. I mean, we see with the vote in the House that when the president wants to, everybody on the Republican side still stands up and salutes, so… if the Democrats can reach some accommodation with the White House on this, about ICE reforms. It’ll get done. If… if they don’t engage, I wouldn’t hold my breath.
Jen Rubin
Exactly. Last question for you. The polling shows that Democrats are much, much closer to where the American people are. Overwhelmingly, people want the maths, they want the identification, they want, some kind of restrictions on use of force, and yet the Republicans persist in taking these very extreme positions. Any indication that the pressure from the voters and the, really, sense of outrage from Minnesota might move some of these, folks.
Sen. Mark R. Warner
Who are now looking at possibly losing majority in not just one, but possibly both houses. I think… I don’t think it was a… let me put it like this… I don’t think it was a sudden burst of empathy from Donald Trump that made him, you know, deal with the Democrats to get the five bills so that the rest of the government doesn’t shut down and start this negotiation. Because I think if… one thing we all know, he is a connoisseur of polls. So if he saw all the handwriting on the wall, I hope my Republican friends will as well. And, you know, a lot of them won’t, just as I… there were a number of Democrats who wouldn’t even vote for, you know, the 10-day extension and funding the balance of the government. But, I think that it’s not just the data. You can’t talk to… I like to cite the case that there was this There’s a jurisdiction out… way outside of Richmond, Hanover County, who’s as red as you can get. And the Board of Supervisors unanimously voted down an ICE facility there, and it was a 6-1 Republican board after lots and lots of people had come out and complained. So I think the mood in the country has changed. I think many people agree that Biden had a… crummy border policy and let too many people in, I agree with that. But that doesn’t mean you then unleash in many cases, not fully trained individuals just to run mayhem across the city, which has seemed to be what happened in Minneapolis.
Jen Rubin
Absolutely. Well, Senator, as always, thank you for spending time with us, and we will, of course, have you back, because it seems that there is a new scandal, a new outrage, practically every day.
Sen. Mark R. Warner
We don’t lack for content, Jen, but thanks for what you’re doing. Take care.
Jen Rubin
Absolutely. Take care. Thanks so much, Senator.
