Recently, film director Steve Pink released The Last Republican, a documentary focusing on the last year of Adam Kinzinger’s time in Congress. As friends of The Contrarian may know, Kinzinger was one of only 10 Republicans who voted to impeach Trump for instigating the January 6 Capitol riot. Similarly, he was one of two Republicans who served on The Select Committee to Investigate the January 6th Attack on the United States Capitol.
Jen sat down with Kinzinger to discuss what compelled him to agree to be the star character in the documentary, especially given Pink’s more left-leaning politics. Also discussed is Kinzinger’s near-death experience saving a woman’s life, Pete Hegseth’s disastrous Quantico meeting, and how to best support veterans as they assimilate back into civilian life.
Adam Kinzinger is a former (a word he relishes) member of Congress from Illinois and was one of two Republican members who sat on the January 6th Committee. Make sure to keep up with Adam on his own Substack here.
The following transcript has been edited for formatting purposes.
Jen Rubin
Hi, this is Jen Rubin, Editor-in-Chief of the Contrarian. We’re thrilled to have back Adam Kinzinger, a veteran and a former member of the House of Representatives. Welcome, Adam.
Adam Kinzinger
Thanks, good to be with you.
Jen Rubin
You have a new documentary out, The Last Republican. Why did you do it? It must have been painful to relive all of this once more.
Adam Kinzinger
Yeah, it was. So, look, right when I basically voted to impeach, I started having a ton of people come up and want to do documentaries, and they all wanted to do this, like, story about, you know, running again for re-election, and I had no interest in that story. And, I met the people that did this documentary, it’s Media Courthouse Documentary Collective, and Steve Pink, who’s the director. And they were more interested in, like, the human element of it. You know, like, what kind of toll does it take on a family, on you, on the things that you’ve done?
And so I talked to Sophia about it, and she was pregnant at the time when we made the decision, so it’s like…this may be a good opportunity to kind of show our kids someday what it is that we went through. So we agreed, and I gotta tell you, the way it turned out, I think, is really good. Obviously, I have no financial interest in it, I’m just a subject, but it’s like, you know, it’s like a multi-layered documentary.
So you see the January 6th stuff, you see human interactions between, you know, Steve Pink and I. Steve’s certainly more left than I am, and then you just see the human element of, like, you know, what kind of a toll does it take? And I mean, it’s only been recently where I’ve really come to grips with, you know… I got married right before COVID happened, had a kid, January 6th, you know, all that stuff, and it’s like, my goodness, what a time. So, thanks, and you can find it anywhere on demand, so go watch it.
Jen Rubin
Your relationship with Steve is just charming and really fun to watch. Did you click immediately, or did it take a while to fall into that kind of rapport?
Adam Kinzinger
I certainly did with him, and I don’t know if he clicked immediately with me, because he, you know, we had fun interactions, I told him I was a fan of Hot Tub Time Machine, which is one of his movies, as well as Grosse Pointe Blank, High Fidelity, and some others, and so…
You know, for me, I said to myself, basically, and to my staff, and to my wife, I said, look, if we’re gonna do this, I’m gonna take the political mask off, right? Because there’s no reason to be a politician on this documentary. Otherwise, like, I mean, you can pull the clips from TV.
And and so I just, you know, let my guard down with him, and I think… I think he appreciated that. And, you know, the funny thing, Jen is, because I’ve been in politics so long, you know how somebody wants to talk politics with you, and you’re kind of off-duty? You’re just kind of like, you know what, I’m not gonna do it, I’m not interested, right? And sometimes you are, because we’re passionate about it.
And so Steve would start arguing with me about issues in a friendly way, or whatever, and I’d be like, Steve, I’m not doing this. I don’t really care what you think, man. I’m just honest to God, I don’t care what your opinion is. And he grew to respect that, and we had a great time back and forth, and I think the thing it shows is, we can have friends on the other side of the aisle. Now, I don’t think you should have a friend that’s an authoritarian, but a friend that’s on the other side of the aisle, or other, I guess, like, conservatives and liberals… yes, you should.
Jen Rubin
Fair enough.
One of the stories that comes out, it was public before, but I think many more people are going to learn about it, is an episode in your life in which you intervened to save a woman’s life, and you could have been killed yourself. Why was that so important to put in this film? How did it affect, really, your life after that?
Adam Kinzinger
Yeah, I mean, it was everything that I think kind of led to where I’m at, you know? So, what happened, I was coming back from having a couple drinks after a deployment with my girlfriend at the time, and this girl was running across the street, holding her throat, and in the video, you see where he stabs her, basically tried to cut her head off, to be honest, and I just remember there’s two thoughts that go through my head. I mean, I see her, and he’s following her, and it’s like, if I fight him, I’m gonna die. You know, the one thing I know is if I had to fight a guy with a knife or a gun, I’d pick the gun any day.
But I also knew that I couldn’t, like, watch him kill her and live with myself the rest of my life. And I mean, when you make a mental decision, right? That you are putting your life on the line, everything else after that, and I mean, I suffered from PTSD, kind of unrecognized PTSD for a while after that, but everything after that pales in comparison. And I think had I not done that, had I not faced that, would I have been willing to put my career on the line for January 6th? I don’t know. I’d like to think so, but I don’t know.
And I also know that that’s the thing that led me into service, you know, further service in politics as well, so what a crazy thing to have happen, and, you know, it just goes to show, any point, any night, anywhere, you just never know. I guess I was 29 at the time, or something like that, pretty crazy.
Jen Rubin
Absolutely. One of the things that I loved about the film was seeing the interaction between you and your staff. I’m sure there are lawmakers who don’t have that kind of rapport, but clearly you enjoy those people, and you treat them like peers, as opposed to underlings. Is that just your personality? Is that how you learn to interact with people? Where’s that come from, as opposed to being the stern boss and telling people what to do?
Adam Kinzinger
You know, that comes from an Air Force squadron, to be honest with you. So, as I came up through the military, you know, the thing that people probably don’t realize, if you just kind of on the periphery know about the military, is that Air Force squadrons and, you know, where it’s basically all officers flying planes, it’s very different, in that you know, I could be a lieutenant, which is kind of a low-ranking officer, flying an airplane with a major, or a lieutenant colonel could be, you know, running my squadron or whatever. We treat each other as peers.
But when the point comes to, like, if the major tells me to do something, or the aircraft commander tells me to do something, or the commander tells me to do something, I revert to the fact that they are my boss, and I will do it. The way that works is as long as you have that respect for each other, you can have a kind of casual relationship, right? And so I ran my office like that, which is, look, if I’m gonna tell you to do something, you know, just because we talk like friends doesn’t mean you can talk back to me, right? You’re gonna do it. But at the same time, I mean, it’s not fun for me to walk around an office, like, barking out orders and commanding people. They don’t have fun, I don’t have fun.
I gotta tell you another thing, Jen, my whole thing is, like, if you’re sitting at your desk, and you’re done with work for the day, go home. You don’t have to stay till 6 o’clock to impress anybody. If you go home at 4.30 or 4, or we’re done with votes at 2, go home, right? Do it. You don’t have to impress me.
Jen Rubin
Things that surprised me about the film. After you took the impeachment vote, you were one of 10 Republicans. You said that you didn’t want to be on the January 6th committee. You were praying it wasn’t you. Explain that, because it seems so natural. You would put your career on the line, you had stuck your neck up, like, how did you think you were going to get out of Dodge?
Adam Kinzinger
Yeah, well, I didn’t… I don’t think I thought, necessarily, that voting for impeachment, I was gonna be able to skate and run again. I had kind of made the decision about that. When all this was going down, I’m like, yeah, I’m not gonna run again, like, this is insane. But you think about it, it’s like, okay, what is my requirement, you know, constitutionally? My requirement is to vote to impeach Donald Trump, okay? Because I know he violated the Constitution, so I’m gonna hold my duty. Is it my constitutional requirement to serve on a committee? And the answer is no, because I knew that for a year and a half, look, the rest of that time, really two years—I guess a year and a half—you know, I’m gonna be in the center of attention, half the country’s gonna hate you, like, it’s not gonna be an easy term, and I obviously was right on that. But I knew, though… here’s the thing, like, I didn’t want it, I didn’t want it to happen, but I knew if I was asked, that’s where the oath comes in, right? So the oath doesn’t come in if I don’t get asked, okay?
But then if all of a sudden Pelosi’s like, hey, Adam, we need you to serve on this committee so we can hold the president accountable, then it becomes an oath decision, and I made the decision to do it. And honestly, you know, somebody just put out a book recently about the dysfunction in the DOJ, and nobody believed us when we said this, and this has now been confirmed, which is the DOJ had no investigation going until the January 6th committee had its first hearing, which should make every person watching this, by the way, irate at how terrible the DOJ was run, and that is why Donald Trump won, that is why Donald Trump is in power.
Regardless, though, I know that the truth will ultimately be written, and obviously the January 6th committee was part of that. So in hindsight, I’m glad I did it, but I also, at the time, really didn’t… really didn’t want to.
Jen Rubin
Sitting on that committee with, people who you had really perhaps very little in common politically before then, did that kind of reset your perspective on what Democrats believe, who they are, what their values are?
Adam Kinzinger
It did. You know, first off, it opened my eyes as to how Democrats run their caucuses very different than us. I actually think Republicans run their caucuses better, we could get into that some other time. But in terms of the personalities, yes, because look. sitting on… I mean, we all got along on all the other committees, right? You call each other… maybe not anymore, but back then, it would be, like, the gentleman from, or my friend from wherever, right? But you don’t really get to know each other. You do sometimes when you travel.
On this committee, the thing I saw, which was impressive to me, is these are people that truly do love America. And, you know, as a Republican, you kind of learn, like, Democrats don’t really like America, they’re not really proud, and that’s why I tell Democrats, you guys need to—at all your functions—be flying the American flag, take patriotism back, take it from the Republicans, because they’re not patriotic.
And I also realized, you know, listening to people like Jamie Raskin, how much he just adored the Constitution of the United States, right? And you remember from Republican circles, you’re always kind of told Democrats don’t care about any of that. And it opened my eyes to the fact that I think they’re, frankly, more patriotic than almost everybody I served with, right? Particularly in the later years.
And so that allowed me, also, then to look at what it is that I believed and kind of challenge my own assumptions. You know, I’m still the same on a lot of things, but I’ve changed on a lot. For instance, the whole voting rights issue, since I’ve seen what the Republicans have actually done now, I’m like, yeah, we really do need to protect it. Now, I will say the John Lewis Voting Rights Act would have given a lot of power to this DOJ. But, you know, stuff like that’s gotta be put into place, and, you know, so yeah, it allowed me to reanalyze my positions.
Jen Rubin
And I think your experience is very similar to what I’ve gone through, what Bill Krisol has gone through, what many other former Republicans have done.
Let me switch gears in honor of Veterans Day. You are a veteran. For, again, so much for patriotism, but for a party that says they care so much about the military, and so much about veterans, veterans have really taken it on the chin in this administration. Talk to us a little bit about, really the cost, the human cost, the financial cost, from this administration, which has really disproportionately harmed veterans.
Adam Kinzinger
Yeah, I mean, look, it’s things from cutting employees in the VA. There’s nothing wrong with making some layoffs if… or… or… I actually like it better through attrition, right? If you can do things with maybe new computer programs and more efficient things, but this was just done when you DOGE the VA.
You bring this fake pretend agency, DOGE, and they just cut people. Obviously, that’s going to have an impact on benefits, right? Now, I’m a disabled veteran now, and so now I have all that stuff I’m involved in, and the VA, and it’s very clear that they don’t prioritize it. They prioritize this so-called bottom line of the spending, but then they spend $40 billion to back up the currency of Argentina, right? Like, that’s insane to me, and that sends a very strong message.
Also, putting current military members in the position of executing orders that are borderline legal, right? Like, or actually borderline illegal is the best way to say it. You know, bombing drug boats. Are drugs really terrorism? I don’t know, we’re buying them up here, right? We weren’t buying terrorism, but we were buying drugs.
And so you’re putting these people in a position where they’re gonna have to make decisions that weigh on them for the rest of their life. I mean, I’ve been involved in combat, I’ve been involved in the death of enemies, and that’s something that you carry with you forever, and you don’t want to carry the potential that you killed somebody innocent, right? And when they say they’re pro-America, here’s the thing, they’re pro-35% of America. That’s not pro-America. If you love America, you have to love all of America, the diversity of it, the fact that we have people that believe different things. Otherwise you love a dream that you potentially view America to be, but you don’t love America. And I think that’s, again, that’s why I keep hammering on Democrats, like, you guys can win the patriotic lane back, and you should do it.
Jen Rubin
Absolutely. The layoffs of thousands and thousands of government workers have disproportionately hit veterans, and it’s interesting, because veterans are disproportionately represented in the federal workforce, because they have a service ethic, and they want to serve their country. Do veterans that you come across now, do they feel betrayed? Are they frustrated? Are they angry? Or do they somehow, like, not connect us to Donald Trump and just think this is kind of the way things are?
Adam Kinzinger
Yeah, I mean, it’s weird, it’s like what’s out there, right? I mean, in people that aren’t veterans. Like, I have some friends that are veterans that are like, Donald Trump is insane, they don’t care about us, they don’t care about the military, and I have some veteran friends that think Donald Trump is the best thing because Joe Biden was, you know, the deep state and blah blah blah. I mean, I guess that’s kind of the beauty of the military, is it recruits people from all over anyway.
I will say that, you know, compared to how Republican the military used to be, what it used to be was, like, the enlisted ranks would be kind of 50-50, and the officer ranks would be, like, 80% Republican. That’s how it has been in the past. It’s shifted a little bit to now… I don’t know the enlisted ranks, per se, because mostly I’m hanging out with officers, and I think it’s shifted more to probably 60% Republican, 40% Democrat, and I think that reflects the fact you have to have a college degree to be an officer, and we’re seeing countrywide, you know, people with college degrees shifting to Democrats. Now, that’s a good thing, but also we have to, you know, be aggressive about maintaining that kind of support among people that don’t have college degrees, that are blue-collar workers, and I think that’s a lesson for Democrats to take to heart.
Jen Rubin
Pete Hegseth has been firing, brass right and left, not with regard to any kind of strategic plan. It appears because they’re not loyal enough, or they won’t do the stuff he wants them to do. We also saw that horrific scene where he flies in all of our top military from all around the world, puts them in a single location, which has to be among the dumbest things a commander-in-chief has ever done.
And they run this dog and pony show, which, really puts these people in an uncomfortable position. To their credit, though, they sat there stone-faced and did not applaud. Did that surprise you? Did that make you proud? What was your reaction?
Adam Kinzinger
It did, it did, because I kind of was worried that they were going to be told, you know, like, hey, you guys need to applaud, even if you don’t have to hoop and holler, right? You need to applaud, you need to be as your commander-in-chief, and they didn’t, and they get a lot of credit for that. Now, the thing that worries me is, you know, we always know that military leaders have a responsibility to the Constitution, not to the President, right? And we’ve seen… and I hope they speak out eventually…We have seen some officers refuse orders, it appears, particularly this guy that was in charge of SouthCom, Southern Command with Venezuela and these boats refuse it and simply be fired and a new person put in.
And just like you can see, you know, the first Trump term to the second, you know, there were people that were willing to push back in the first term. Eventually, you can find people in another term that are willing to just do whatever you want, and it’s the same among officer ranks. That worries me a little bit.
But I will tell you, here’s the funny thing about the Pete Hegseth speech, was we always have this thing in the military where when a new commander comes in, if they focus on things like uniforms, or the patches you wear, or, you know, little things like that. And they all say the same thing, which, by the way, Hegseth said this exactly.
If we can’t trust you to wear your uniform, how can we trust you to operate a $200 million airplane? And that is the stupidest thing you can say. You can trust me to operate a $200 million airplane because you trained me to do that, right? Now, if I want to wear my patches different, a good officer doesn’t care because that good officer cares about morale of his folks, right? When Hegseth stands up there, and he spends time talking about fat troops, troops with beards, troops that wear their uniform bad. That said to every one of those generals, and there are probably a few colonels in there, it said to every one of them that this guy’s in over his head. And the fact that he said it still blows me away, because he should actually know that. They all are like, oh, this guy’s reverting to the uniform thing.
Jen Rubin
Oh, that is funny. You do have the sense that the people who left there, if there was any question in their mind, if these people were a bunch of jokers, their mind had been made up.
Adam Kinzinger
Correct.
Jen Rubin
Veterans have, I think, a special place in the heart of Americans, because they put their lives on the line, and their families, have had their lives disrupted. Speak to us, as a former veteran, what’s, aside from the fact you’re risking your life, obviously, what’s the hardest thing about being in the military?
Adam Kinzinger
Well, I loved it. I loved every aspect of it. I… but I was also not married for most of it. When you’re single, when you go to war, you know, my parents worried about me far more than I worried about me, right? I mean, I was 20, early 30s, I guess, you know, you’re invincible. Even at that age, you think you’re invincible, you know your job well.
Deployments are hard, right? You know, but I think, ultimately, now that I have a kid and a wife, and I imagine what, you know, if this was 2008, and I was leaving for, you know, in pilots, we only leave for, like, 3 months, and then back 3 months, and leave 3 months. That would be tough. And, you know, our army friends… I mean, these men and women, they had 18 to 21 month deployments at the height of the surge in Iraq. I don’t know, look, honestly, I don’t know how any marriage survives that, right? Because when you come back from that, you’ve changed, you’ve probably seen some things, you know, your wife is like, you know, who are you? You’re kind of strangers to each other. And, that’s what I see as kind of the biggest sacrifice, both, as you mentioned, from the families and from the soldiers, and that’s… I think it’s also… okay, particularly for men when you go to war at 19, 20 years old, and you kind of reach this, like, full… fulsomeness of being a man, right? You’re fighting, you’re defending, you’re hanging out with other dudes, it’s just, like, the best, and then you come home.
And then all of a sudden, you’re kind of told by the government, go start a family, or go fishing, or whatever. You know, they may pat you on the head and give you a disability pension. All of a sudden, now you’re struggling for purpose. When you’ve reached that highest, highest purpose… I struggle with this, and I’m 47 years old, and I was in Congress for 12 years. I never felt as fulsome in a mission as I did when I was in Iraq. You know, yeah, and it’s just coming back… you always try to reach that again. That’s why, actually, I think veteran suicide is so high. It’s less that they’re haunted by, you know, the war, although I think there is some of that, but I think it’s because they’re searching for purpose, and they can’t find it. And this is what we have to do better as a country, is give them a purpose, give them a community, and you know, and help them through that, because it is tough.
Jen Rubin
That is a beautiful way to end this, and when they say the entire family serves in the military, boy, does it really, hold true. And the longer these deployments, you may come home and never have seen a kid that is yours, or your kid doesn’t recognize you anymore, so that’s real hardship. Adam, thank you for your service, and thank you for doing this film. It’s fun, it’s fascinating, and I don’t even think you have to be a political junkie to watch it. A lot about human nature, and getting along with people, and riding through tough times, which you have. So, good.
Adam Kinzinger
Go watch it, The Last Republican. If you don’t watch it, you’re wrong.
Jen Rubin
There you go. Take care, Adam.
Adam Kinzinger
You bet. See ya.
