Last Friday, the Senate passed five funding bills but, due to Democrats’ dissents, punted DHS funding down the road by two weeks. While Democrats refuse to vote for any funding package that fails to include ICE reforms, the five other funding bills still need House approval to avoid another government shutdown.
However, Neera Tanden, President of the Center for American Progress reminds us that ICE operations will continue despite a government shutdown. In her conversation with Jen, Tanden analyzes the importance of keeping the pressure up on Republicans and remembering where to place blame: Trump and the Congresspeople that voted for the Big, Beautiful Bill. Jen and Tanden also debate what, if any realistic restraints can be put on ICE.
Neera Tanden is the president and CEO of the Center for American Progress and the CEO of the Center for American Progress Action Fund. She was previously the Domestic Policy Advisor to President Joe Biden and director of the Domestic Policy Council, overseeing some of the administration’s signature achievements, including efforts to lower the cost of prescription drugs and expand health insurance coverage.
The following transcript has been edited for formatting
Jen Rubin
Hi, this is Jen Rubin, Editor-in-Chief of the Contrarian, and we are thrilled to have back our dear friend, Neera Tanden, head of the Center for American Progress. Welcome, Neera, good to see you!
Neera Tanden
Great to be on!
Jen Rubin
There are so many things to talk about. Let’s first talk about Minnesota and the impact that that has had on the DHS funding bill. Tell us where we are now, and what Democrats could and should be asking for in terms of reining in this secret police force that is now menacing Americans.
Neera Tanden
Where we were with the DHS bill, which is the funding mechanism for the Department of Homeland Security, it was tied to a range of other agencies, including, the Department of Defense. Now, it’s really important to remember that the kind of extraordinary levels of funding that, DHS has, these days is because of a party-line vote. Republicans all voted for it, almost all Republicans voted for it, and all Democrats voted against the One Big Beautiful Bill Act. And that had, you know, over $100 billion, which is just an extraordinary amount of money for the Department of Homeland Security, which is, you know, really funding all of these operations.
So, essentially, Thune had been saying, Leader Thune had been saying that he was not going to separate out these bills to give Democrats… you know, basically, Democrats wanted to hold on DHS. Senator Schumer held the line on that, just candidly, he did actually hold the line on separating out the bills, and and in the vote to separate out the bills, there was a motion to proceed. You know, a few Republicans joined Democrats in that, actually, much more than we’ve seen, you know, really beyond just the kind of Lisa Murkowski, Susan Collins kind of situation.
So, I do think Republicans feel a lot of pressure, so where we are right now is the bills have been separated from the Senate. It takes a House vote to fund… so, essentially, we’re… from the Senate posture, the five bills are approved, the DHS bill is the one that’s holding out. And that has a continuing resolution, so, it’s existing funding for 2 weeks. But, you know, in a interest, you know, nothing is a straight line here. In the House, it has to go to the House, and House has to vote for this again, and there’s, I think, a significant question about that.
You know, I think Democrats are not offering their votes for this, so… and I think that’s an additional leverage point. I think the White House has really made clear that they don’t want a government shutdown of any kind, although we were technically in one for a few of these agencies. And, more fundamentally, I think this has been an actual moment. We’ve all been waiting for an actual moment that would make, you know, put some pressure on Republicans, and some people would say enough. And when you have Rand Paul going on 60 Minutes and, you know, really making the case that the government is lying to the people. You know, he was very clear that Alex Pretti was backing away, that he was not, you know, attacking officers, that it seemed like the DHS was lying. You know, I do think you’re getting more and more Republicans who perhaps see the existential… you know, condition of their party. Given Saturday’s election in Texas, people are willing to stand up.
Jen Rubin
The funding, of course, is not going to necessarily vanish. But there are some restraints, and Republicans, don’t want to make them, but Democrats have been clear. They want, greater visibility, they want unmasking, they want body cameras, they want, restrictions on what these people can do, they want judicial warrants, there’s a whole long list of items. What’s fundamentally here important to achieve? And there are people who say, well, so long as Kristi Noem’s there, so long as Tom Homan’s there, we’re still gonna have problems, which is true, but that doesn’t mean nothing should be done. What’s your recipe for making sure that there are some efforts to rein them in so that more people aren’t killed, frankly, in Minnesota and elsewhere?
Neera Tanden
So, you know, I think the fundamental question here is, how does ICE operate vis-a-vis the public? And, you know, I’m proud that the Center for American Progress, put forward, a kind of array of ways to rein ICE in. Now, one important thing for everyone to know is that even in a government shutdown, ICE is still funded and considered an emergency function, so it is funded. It’s not like you could just shut down the government and ICE would go away.
So, I think the real question in front of all of us is what, really, the DHS appropriations offers a manner by which we can, actually restrict ICE. And I think the fundamental issue here is how to ensure ICE operates within the Constitution as you know, a kind of law enforcement that is designed to protect, not intimidate the public. So there’s an array of issues. One, I mean, obviously, they should be following the Constitution, both the First and Fourth Amendment and the Second Amendment, for what it’s worth as well. But in the legislation, there are particular, you know, particular issues. The use of body cameras. Ending the masking, ensuring that state investigations are allowed and followed, that there needs to be an external investigation, investigation apparatus apart from just DHS and DOJ investigating themselves, because nobody… I mean, very few people in America trust these as independent investigations.
So, you know, the fact that there has to be real training for these ICE and CBP, enforcement officers. And, you know, I think, look. I think a lot of people are legitimately angry at what’s happening in the country, and we all should be. I just think we also have to recognize that we have had interior enforcement in this country where no one was getting shot or killed or maimed by, ICE. And you know, I think that from our perspective at CAP, we need a system where ICE is out of Minnesota, it’s out of Minneapolis, it is out of our cities doing these kind of broad sweeps that you know, it’s supposed to go after, like criminal entities, and that’s really what it should be doing. And I think that’s a lot of this.
It’s, like, none of these broad sweeps, where they’re just, like, rounding up anyone who looks brown. No, you know, Kavanaugh stops. There’s a whole range of protections that you can write into law, and and, you know, we should have a right of, you know, to sue DHS, because it’s not like they basically follow these laws. There’s a whole suite of ideas there. And I, you know, I’d say, I think the caucus is, you know, pretty united on all this, Senate caucus is pretty united on all these things, and, you know, I think this is an opportunity to actually have. Like, a rein of the excesses of this administration.
Jen Rubin
Absolutely, and she won’t say it, but I will. CAP has been absolutely instrumental in getting Democrats to where they are, making the case for going after Kristi Noem, making the case for holding out. So, we’re indebted to CAP. As always, Neera is working her will behind the scenes. The administration talks a good game. Mike Tom Homan, Mr. Cobblebag, you know, with $50,000, says, you know, we’re gonna de-escalate, but they are continuing to sweep, they are continuing to tear gas, peaceful demonstrations, including your own. Including our own in Portland, where our, reporter, Tim Dickinson, rather, was, reporting over the weekend. They have arrested journalists for doing nothing more than journalism. These people are out of control. At what point, do we begin looking at a much more serious overhaul and impeachment proceedings? Looking at DOJ, looking at the entire apparatus by which they are, as judges have said. ignoring court orders, violating, injunctions. There’s a bigger problem, which is the overall utter lawlessness of this administration, even beyond DHS.
Neera Tanden
Absolutely! I mean, we are well past the time to look at every option available. I mean, I think the challenge of all of this is, you know, I mean, if you were doing an actual analysis, you would say, you know, half the cabinet should be impeached, right? Like, they don’t follow the law, they don’t…it’s all, like, Trump’s fiat. They’re not agencies that do the public good. They are corrupt. you know, I mean, just, you could leave it to Pam, if you just wanted to take out the higher echelons of DHS and DOJ, that would be, you know, I mean, that would be more than appropriate.
The fact that the Department of Justice has been used to essentially operate as a weapon of the White House to go after, you know, essential people… critics, you know? Many people have said this, it’s step one of the authoritarian playbook, so I think all of these people deserve their, they deserve impeachment proceedings, etc.
The whole problem with impeachment proceedings is that Republicans will just ignore them, they don’t participate, they’ll be against them. You know, I think the thing that is really important in all of this, okay, is to remind people constantly. I mean. I can, you know, it makes me feel good to yell impeachment, just as anyone else, but I think the thing that we have to do is to translate this to the public, which is Alex Pretti, is dead, because Donald Trump decided to send thousands of ICE and CBP officials in to Minneapolis to essentially punish the people of Minneapolis. Maybe because they have a large Somali population, maybe because they didn’t vote for him, who knows, but Alex Pretti and Renee Goode would be alive today if it weren’t, and many others would be alive today, Keith Porter, others would be alive today if it weren’t for the actions and decisions of Donald Trump.
And then, just to say, every member of the Republican Party voted for the One Big Beautiful Bill Act, which gave ICE a gazillion dollars, and a free hand. And, as you and I have said multiple times, all it would take is a handful of Republicans to rein this administration in. Now, I think we’re beginning to see some cracks in this foundation. I think we are beginning to see the fact that you know, Donald Trump and Chuck Schumer are negotiating to at least separate out the DHS bill, to have a conversation about efforts to rein in, you know, the kind of things we saw in every other piece of legislation in the last shutdown, where it was like. you know, there was no negotiations. I think they, they smell trouble.
If my honest assessment is they are, they’re, you know, they are evil. And there are, obviously, a lot of you know, a lot of different voices that span from supervillain to just villain in the White House. Okay? Everyone who works here is a villain, but, like, you know, it seems to me just, like, the traditional villains recognize that there is a political gravity, and I… you know, they’re gonna see this election in Texas, where I will say, you know, just for all of us to remember, it wasn’t just Democratic turnout! There were Republicans who vote Republican, and then voted for this Democrat, and lots of independents voted for the Democrats. So it was a persuasion race, and I think the truth is that if, you know, if Republican leaders do not separate, they will face wrath, you know, from a lot of angry Democrats. Like, I would walk over glass to vote in November, and I think I’m not the only one, but I think that they are beginning to see real cleavages of Republicans.
Jen Rubin.
Right, and Neera, of course, is referring to a state Senate race that was over a 30-point swing from Republican to Democrat over the weekend. And that, of course, calls into question whether the redistricting gambit was so smart after all, and they could very well lose many, if not all, of those seats. So, I think you’re hit the nail on the head that this is about tying bad results to the Republicans who have enabled them. This is Susan Collins’ responsibility. This is Moreno’s responsibility. This is John Cornyn’s responsibility. Dan Sullivan’s responsibility.
Neera Tanden
Ashley Henson in Iowa voted for the One Big Beautiful Bill Act.
Jen Rubin
Absolutely. She has been a cheerleader of this president.
Neera Tanden
She’s running in now an open Senate seat. You know, I think there’s real opportunities, and there are Republicans who no one is, you know, I mean, they’re not, like, household names, and they would like to stay that way, like John Huston, Dan Sullivan, from Ohio and Alaska, respectively. But we have to make them household names. We have to make them own this. That is the accountability in our democracy, which is there is an election coming, and you know, the best way to have true accountability for all of this, an actual end this nightmare, is with both the House and the Senate.
I am deeply optimistic about the House, but I will say, just let’s picture what happens if you’re a Democratic House and a Democratic Senate. No more Trump judges. None of these kooky people are getting appointed. You know, you can actually… much better ground a halt to this administration if you have the House and Senate.
Jen Rubin
Absolutely. I’ve been a little… a bit out there and thinking, for a while there was a path to the Senate, maybe a few other believers are out there. Let me end on this, which is, right in Neera’s wheelhouse. What has happened to the ACA subsidies? The Senate actually came up with a three-year extension. Mike Johnson is sitting around, doing nothing. So what happens now? And, are they also going to be left holding the bag on…the loss of insurance coverage for millions upon millions of Americans who will be priced out of healthcare coverage, including, and in addition to, those people who will lose Medicaid, lose SNAP, who will suffer from other aspects of this administration?
Neera Tanden
Yeah, I mean, what we are witnessing in America is people are losing coverage, you know? I mean, they’re… these are all… The people in the exchanges are basically all working-class, middle-class families who get insurance because they work for a small business that doesn’t offer, or they’re an independent contractor, and so they buy insurance themselves, and, you know, these are people, families that make, you know, $50,000, $60,000, And they just don’t have the wherewithal to go from spending, you know $400, $200 a month, $100 a month, to, like, $4,000, right? Like, who’s got that money? So, you know, they’re just, like, they’re doubling, tripling.
You know, the posture is that the House, passed a discharge petition, so it’s really up to the Senate, so it’s a reminder that John Thune, you know, could pass the House-passed discharge petition. tomorrow. You know, all he has to do is put this on the floor. I believe he would have a range of Republican votes for it. I mean, I just think this is what the tragedy of this, and the political press and media don’t really focus on this, is that it is simply, at this point, a decision by John Thune. I, myself, doubt that Trump would veto a House and Senate-passed 3-year extension, given Trump two months ago wanted to do a one-year extension, and all the Republicans pulled him back.
So I mean, the fact is, millions of people are going to lose their healthcare. They are losing it as we speak. People are making a decision to forego healthcare. The exchanges… people on the exchanges, the numbers on the exchanges, all of our reports are declining, and that is a decision of this administration to drive up healthcare costs for people to a point where it’s unaffordable. Unaffordable. And, you know, just to say again, they’ve had trillions of dollars for tax cuts for the wealthiest Americans, and haven’t been able to find, you know, $30 billion, $60 billion to extend the tax credits.
Jen Rubin
And multiples of that on DHS, which is out there terrorizing and killing Americans. And meanwhile, Donald Trump is building the world’s largest arch. He’s shutting down the Kennedy Center. It is all about self-glorification. And this is what dictators do, folks. They brutalize their own people, and they celebrate themselves. And the way to get them is to get the Republicans and get them out of office if they won’t get in line and do their jobs. After all, it’s curious that they want to do nothing. They have these very important jobs, and yet they sit around doing nothing, other than going on Fox News and, I guess, CBS News now. But they don’t show up here, isn’t that funny? Weird. Yeah, weird.
Neera Tanden
If you have actual accountability, you might ask them a hard question!
Jen Rubin
Exactly, exactly. Neera, thank you, thank you for CAP for all they’re doing, folks. This shows it matters. Call your House members, whether they’re Republican, whether they’re Democrat, and tell them they need to vote to rein in ICE. Call your senators. It matters, because they are running scared, they’re panic-stricken. Make them panic-stricken, and show up peacefully, politely, in their offices. Call their offices, show up, show up at town hall meetings. they don’t like it, because they don’t like accountability. So thank you, Neera, for everything you’re doing. Great seeing you again, and we will talk to you soon. Take care.
Neera Tanden
Nice to be with you, thanks!
