Our country is battling a monster of its own making. The streets are clouded with tear gas thrown by federal agents towards innocent children. Community members are being kidnapped in broad daylight. ICE agents are checking papers based on skin tone. And the Trump Administration is orchestrating it from their satellite White House in Florida.
LaTosha Brown, Cofounder of Black Voters Matter Fund, joins Jen to provide guidance, insight, and direction during these troubled times. She reminds us that democracy is fallible and upheld by the hearts and minds of the people. Jen and Brown discuss ICE operating like modern day slave patrols, combatting the rising trend of dehumanization, and the rejecting the need to “qualify” victims of state sanctioned violence.
Trust me, you want to listen to this one.
LaTosha Brown is the co-founder and chief do’er of Black Voters Matter Fund. Brown is principal owner of TruthSpeaks Consulting, Inc. She is a well known organizer and served as a consultant and advisor for individual donors, government, public foundations and private donors.
Jen Rubin
Hi, this is Jen Rubin, Energy Chief of The Contrarian. I’m delighted to have LaTosha Brown. who really needs no introduction. She’s an activist, she is the co-founder of Black Voters Matter, she has been really front and center in the voting and civil rights space, for a very long time now, so welcome.
LaTosha Brown
Thank you, thank you for having me. Good morning.
Jen Rubin
You have behind you, one of the famous of many phrases from Dr. Martin Luther King. And we celebrate Dr. King’s birthday at a time in which voting rights is under siege, the federal government has deployed forces, which are reminiscent of a time in our history a very, very long time ago. What’s your thought about where we are right now?
LaTosha Brown
You know, I think that there’s a… I think when we took… when we look at this moment, we all know that we’re in some really, really trying times, and particularly in our lifetime, in this nation, we have not… we have not experienced, the totality of all these attacks. There have been attacks throughout, our lifetime. We’ve seen attacks on voting rights. We’ve seen attacks on our communities, racism, all of those things. So those elements have always been here, and there’s always been some aspect. But what we’ve not seen is we have not seen this, major, like, ascension to concentrate power. to a few who are extremely, what I call, anti-democratic and anti-human. And pro-hate. And so, given that, we’re seeing all of these things, all of the systems that people believed were infallible. This whole… this notion that America, was exceptional, and that somehow our systems could not be eroded, or somehow democracy was ever… you know, I think one lesson I think we should take in consideration around that is all systems are created by people. And when you don’t change the hearts and the minds of people, right, and if you don’t hold folks accountable. who don’t have the same love for people, this is what you will see. And so this quote that Dr. King talks about, that’s behind me, around darkness cannot drive out darkness, and only light can do that. Hate can’t drive out hate, only love can do that. You know, it sounds… for some people, it may sound Pollyannish, but for me, I really fundamentally believe that part of what we’re going to have to do is reclaim our humanity. In this moment. That all that is happening, that is not just about the politics, right? It is how do we reclaim our humanity in this moment. We’re seeing people be disappeared, we’re seeing ICE agents, or we’re calling them ICE agents to professionalize them, but they’re basically the modern-day slave patrols, right? That at one point, that in the Deep South, what would… folks would be deputized. Right? all white men, right, would be deputized and really given a bounty, for the most part, to go and catch slaves, and oftentimes, free men and women, people who have been enslaved, because there’s no such thing as a slave. There’s a system of slavery. But I say that to say that, you know, in this moment, I think it’s requiring something different of us, Jen. I don’t think in this moment. we can continue to be the same as we are, because that’s what’s gotten us here. I think in this moment, we’re going to have to really reclaim our own humanity. We’re going to have to really look at, can love defeat hate? Right? And not the kind of love that Hallmark sells us, in February for Valentine’s Day, but, like, a really deep-seated love for community, for people. Like, I love human beings. Like, every single human being that I see when I’m walking on the street. I consider to be a miracle. Just in the process of how we came to be. And so I think in this moment, I am hoping that we take this holiday, I hope we take this season, I hope we take everything that we’re looking… there’s some practical things that we need to do, but more than anything, this should be a heart check for us. This should be a moment that’s not just about what Trump and his eel are doing. They’re pretty consistent. They’ve been anti-human, they’ve been anti-democracy, they’ve been anti, civil rights. I think it’s really important for us to be reflective in this moment. About what we stand for. What’s our core who are we? And I believe, Jen, that there are more of us, right, in this country than that small group of people who seek to destroy people and everything. And so, if that is the case, then we’ve got to actually get more in alignment around what it is that we see, that we’ve got to shut this foolishness down that we’re seeing that’s coming. We gotta fight like hell and reclaim that which what we love.
Jen Rubin
It’s interesting that you say that, because I wonder if, in some ways, like, the killing of George Floyd, which did tap into our humanity, that moment was lost, unfortunately, whether the killing of Renee Goode, which has, I think, deeply shaken a lot of people, can be a source of reclaiming humanity. Can everyone not relate to a young mother who was just trying to move her car out of the way? I wonder if that… can break through the politics and the, kind of insanity of don’t believe your eyes, believe what I’m telling you. Do you have any hope that this might be a moment that is an opportunity, not just a tragedy?
LaTosha Brown
I absolutely think it’s a moment. What we do with the moment is the question, but it is absolutely a moment. We saw with our own eyes, they can get all the propaganda they want, but we saw a woman be shot point-blank right, and murdered in our very eyes, just like we saw the tape of George Floyd. We saw this woman who was of no real threat to the ICE agents, goons that were there, because I don’t even want to call them agents, the ICE goons that were there, that we saw no threat to them, not really. Like, matter of fact, when you look at… well, without diagnosing all of that. The truth of the matter is, yes! we should be moved, at our core, because this young mother, right, was brutally murdered. But the thing that I want to call our attention to, Jen, is She doesn’t need a qualifier, and this is what I mean. You know, we have so dehumanized people in this country that we actually have to qualify that they should not have been shot. I don’t care if she had just, escaped from Alcatraz. No human being has the right to decide that they’re going… this person is not good enough, that their humanity is protected, that ultimately I have the right. Because they put themselves in a place of… as if they’re a god. I have the right, because you were an immigrant, or you were a… protester, or you were a man, or you were a person of color, we gotta get away from that. And so I’m saying that to say the truth of the matter is this was a young woman who left her partner, her, I think it was her wife, her children, right? And that in itself, and her family, and people that loves her. That is not what makes her valuable.
Jen Rubin
Yeah, that’s such a great question.
LaTosha Brown
a human being. And so, I hope that we move from the place that in order… it’s almost like we’re in this space in order to protect our innocent… in order to protect the space that this was an innocent person that was murdered. We’ve got to.
Jen Rubin
Yes.
LaTosha Brown
qualifiers. Like, she’s been murdered because she… and we do that because we know that, like, like, we… she was a… she was a woman. She was, a… a young mother, all of those things. I’m saying that because I’m… I’m hoping that we take this moment to re-examine how we are also a part of the problem.
Jen Rubin
Yes.
LaTosha Brown
If we’re feeding this idea that some are… are… should get value, or they’re… some are more human than other, her being a mother makes it… for many of us who are mothers, it tugs at our strings, and it should, right? And all of us have a mother, and so I understand that, but her being a mother has nothing to do with the value of our clients.
Jen Rubin
It is such a great point, and I must admit, I have had very mixed emotions, because I look at this woman, and frankly, the reason why the country is entirely engaged is, first of all, there’s video, and because she’s a white woman. Where was the sympathy for all of the others who didn’t deserve to die? All of the other Black women, Black young men who were shot, oh, by mistake, by accident, by other people patrolling them? Why this? Why are people suddenly out in the street because of this incident? And so it bothers me that that’s what it took. On the other hand, I don’t want to look a gift horse in the mouth. I don’t want to say, I don’t want you to pay attention if this is what it took. But what you say, I think, is so profound that We seem to say, well, if it was an illegal immigrant, that was one thing.
LaTosha Brown
That would’ve been…
Jen Rubin
She was an American citizen. Yeah. She was an American citizen, people say. That is very hard. you know, what… taking a step back, we have such a dearth of empathy. Maybe it’s social media, maybe it’s people have lost track of family, maybe it’s because people spend too much time on their screens. How do we recapture empathy? How do you get people to reconnect with their fellow man and woman?
LaTosha Brown
That’s such a beautiful question. You know, let me just go back to say to, Sister Renee Goode. That she deserves. She is deserves… her humanity. Everything else, we made up all this other stuff. Like, I mean, the truth of the matter, we made up all this other stuff, and so she’s no less deserving. than any other human being. And it is unfortunate that we are in a space that… that the humanity of Black people, of Black women, of immigrants, of… of… of… men, Black men, of people that we have a culture that has been impacted by racism and sexism, we cannot see and accept the full humanity of them, right? Yes. And so, unfortunately, This beautiful woman, Had… Has lost her life. Because of the recklessness and the violence, of the state. Let’s be clear, this was state-sanctioned violence, right? Yes. But also, in my humanity box.
Jen Rubin: I don’t even want her to get in the fray of whether… why we care. We should care about her, because she is a God-made. She’s a human being. And so I’m saying that because I want to push us.
LaTosha Brown: And I’m hoping that in this space, part of us Part of the reason why this is happening is because over the years, we have…fallen in these tropes of who has value and who doesn’t have value, as if a blue passport gives your humanity any more value than the next person. We have called human beings aliens. Just think about that. Like, airlines are people from outer space, but we have created and attached as if, and even in that language, where you’re using that language, that language dehumanizes them. Yes. This is a human being, right? And we’ve also created this context as some way, some… something that this is America, and we own this America. Well, I really want to know, well, what conversation you gonna have with Indigenous people? Because if you can have this conversation, right, then how can… how can our Indigenous brothers and sisters. What conversation should they have with you? The truth of the matter is, don’t none of us own this. That, like, America, no land, that whole… that was a… this whole idea of land ownership. Was actually created Out of capitalism, that up until… that many, particularly on this land, saw it as land stewardship. that tribes used to see the land as, this is the land that I have, this is my territory, and they treated it as they were stewards of the land. Not owners of the land that they could destroy, they could do anything they wanted to, and not actually understand that they and the land were one. And so I’m saying that. to say. I’m hoping in this moment that we’re doing a hard reset. I really believe this, Jen, in my heart. I don’t think that this is a political fight. I think that this is more of a spiritual, humanitarian, and I didn’t say religious, a spiritual, humanitarian moment more than it is a political moment.
Jen Rubin
Absolutely.
LaTosha Brown
always follow, right, where the people’s hearts are. That’s just the truth.
Jen Rubin
Absolutely.
LaTosha Brown
So I… we… we have created a mess for ourselves. We have fed an ugly monster that has said that some people are more valuable than others. We have fed this idea that in some way, that… that dominance is the model of leadership. We have followed some way this belief around American exceptionalism that actually has fed all of this foolishness, that in some way, because we are American, we are better than the rest of the world. How dare we, right? That in some way, that we have the authority to kill, that we have the authority to dominate, that we have the authority to hurt people because they’re different from us. And so I’m saying that because a lot of that lives in us, too. And so…
Jen Rubin
Absolutely.
LaTosha Brown
I am hoping that this is not just a transactional political moment, but this becomes a transformative moment for us to really reclaim what matters. I can come on here and talk about GOTV, I can talk about the politics, be glad to talk about that. I really don’t think that’s it. I really don’t.
Jen Rubin
No, I pray.
LaTosha Brown
I really think it is around the core of our spirits that how we have allowed just humanity to be eroded. piece by piece by piece, and we’ve replaced it with something that we call, like, this naturalist pride at the expense of demoralizing… at the expense of putting humanity, like, in something. If you feel, if you cry, if you love, that’s weakness. That is… yeah.
Jen Rubin
So… How would I deal with the enormity of the issues, the enormity of the problem? And, you know, it can be a weight on the shoulders, it can be a weight on your heart. how do you get people to not be fatalistic? To not simply say, I’m gonna hide under my bed, or I’m gonna go watch a movie? How do you get people to re-engage when it’s so painful, it’s so… Stressful, to see what’s become of, our society.
LaTosha Brown
You know, I think a couple of things. You know, I’ll say, kind of for myself, and kind of three strategies. The first strategy that I kind of use is, one, really is around stretching my mind. And what I do is, you know, I’m thinking about this quote that Dr. King is talking about, darkness cannot drive out darkness, right? And so, we’re in this really dark political moment in this country right now, right? You know, but what’s really interesting is, in darkness, there is something that helps us to give us a little light, and we know them as stars. That’s what we call them, right? The moon and the stars. And so, there is a woman that people may have heard of called Harriet Tubman. And Harriet Tupman followed the North Star to freedom. Now, this is a woman who could not read or write, but she just… she used and navigated with the light that was in… in vast darkness, and used that light to actually find her way there. And so, to me, that’s a metaphor, right, I think for us to use in this moment, that look for the light. Become the light. That, ultimately, we have to… we’ve got to… we can’t fight hate with hate. And some people think that because you’re angry, and you should be angry. You should… there’s righteous anger, right? But you cannot allow that anger to consume you. We’ve got to get to the place that that anger actually moves us, and so for me. part of what I do is I take all of this anger, and I… and I… it’s kind of like being an alchemist, and I turn that anger into… the ability for… to push me to do things that normally I would move outside of my comfort zone. For example, think about when somebody is attacking somebody that you love. Like, the mon… like the… it’s like you turn into an Avenger. Like, you’re like, wait a minute now, you’re not gonna mess with my kid. And what happens is that righteous anger comes into you where you become, like, a protector. You stop seeing yourself as… as… you’re not gonna complain, stay on the sidelines, if you really… you’re going to protect that person. And so I think that that’s what we have to do. I think in this moment, and the reason why I use the light you know, there’s this… I tell this story often that, you know, there are stars that are in the sky, and there are some stars in the sky that are known as dead stars, the phantom stars. And so those stars, as you know, Giann, have… many of those… those dead stars no longer exist. It just took… it may have taken millions of light years.
Jen Rubin
forecast.
LaTosha Brown
travel for us to see it. And so at the point that we’re seeing it, we’re seeing it as a light, a fading light, but the truth of the matter is that star’s been dead. that time for that star is over. And I think in this moment, we’re gonna have to understand that some of these things that these evil people are doing, that time is over. They are going through extraordinary lengths to make us believe that they have the power, they have the energy, that they have the… to be able to take us back. No, they don’t. They don’t, right? But how far we go forward is literally going to be determined by us, not them. And so I… if I can get people to move beyond and actually see that they’re using these tactics because they know it’s over. Right? They’re using these tactics because they know it’s more of us than it is of them.
Jen Rubin
Absolutely.
LaTosha Brown
because they know that we’re in a different kind, there’s a new generation. That’s why they’re going through extraordinary lengths to try to, evangelize and to pull people out. You know, they’re so desperate, they’re hiring anybody for ICE, right? And if they were so compelling, with a job like that, you shouldn’t have any problem getting anybody, right? So they see the writing on the wall, and their intention is, let’s take… let’s steal as much as possible, let’s amass and concentrate as much power as possible, because this is the only way that we will be able to rule and govern.
Jen Rubin
Absolutely. And, you know, that’s why Donald Trump is talking about canceling the election. That’s why… because there’s… it’s a smash-and-grab operation, you know, like a jewelry, you know, heist. Smash the case, take whatever you can, and run as fast as you can. Talk to us about what you’re going to actually, do on, the wonderful commemoration Day. Do you do public service? Do you talk to your neighbors? Do you, go to church? What do you do?
LaTosha Brown
we organize. So, there’s a couple of things, oftentimes, you know, I think this is a moment, I think a couple of things, like, how you say, how we… in this moment, in this moment, there’s a couple of things I think we need to do. One, I think we have to get out of our comfort zone, I call it the V strategy. You know, the first V is around vision. I think we have to have a vision of what we want. If we’re not clear about what it is that we want. we will continue just to be in this perpetual cycle of responding. And so, you know, I am hoping that people take this, this opportunity, this holiday, very differently. This is the 250th anniversary of the founding of this country. This is a reflection point, in my opinion.
Jen Rubin
Yes.
LaTosha Brown
We should be reflecting around where we’ve come, but more importantly, what is the next 250 gonna look like? I want people to really think about that and start organizing groups, start organizing people within your communities to have this conversation with. I am hoping that for this holiday that we are doing service, but more than just service, right? I think that we are doing service in community, but I also think that we, in the best service of ourselves, should really be honest, do an honest assessment of where we are as it relates to where we’re holding ourselves by this idea of Dr. King of the Beloved Community. Like, that… we forget that this wasn’t just about doing charity. This isn’t…
Jen Rubin
Yes!
LaTosha Brown
around, I’m hoping this holiday, there’s a real recommitment. I would rather for.
Jen Rubin
Yes.
LaTosha Brown
that, that there’s a recommitment to justice, that part of what we can do is we can use our wallets, we can actually support organizations that are on the front lines that are fighting this. Right now, we’re dealing with this Kella case, right? The Louisiana v. Calais case, which is a redistricting case, that ultimately that case, if they, if the Supreme Court, who any day now. right, is considering and will come out with a ruling on that case, that that case in particular can completely reshape the political landscape. We could lose.
Jen Rubin
Absolutely.
LaTosha Brown
of members of the Congressional Black Caucus. We can actually see on the local level, hundreds of positions, shifted, from… we could see the Republicans, once again, do a smash and grab, and basically grab power that’s not representative to the population of people. And so I think that it’s important for us to, one. This is the moment, if you don’t have a… if there’s some 1-2-3s to do, number one, find a political home. You have… this is not the moment, like, you cannot swim by yourself. This water is too deep. You’re going to have to have a vehicle to make it across this pond. And so, what that means is you need some political home. Find a political organization, a civic group, or someone where you’re not in a vacuum. Second thing is it’s important to actually reclaim community, that many of us have bought these homes in these nice neighborhoods, and we like the aesthetics. We may wave at our neighbor across the street, but we don’t even know their name. We don’t know their numbers. We don’t know who they are, and so I am… I think that in this moment, this… the thing that can protect us, and we’re seeing that play itself already out. We’re seeing… Yes. What has been protecting people? There are people who have been protected by communities in Chicago, that have been protected by communities in Portland, that have been protected by communities in Minneapolis. My point is, the most… the strongest vehicle we’ve had to resist has been community gathering together, and so this is the moment to rebuild community. Take the time and go and meet your neighbors. Just know… exchange numbers. Create a process where you all can start talking or knowing each other, because I’m telling you, when things really get tough, we’re… we’re going to need each other in extortive ways.
Jen Rubin
Absolutely.
LaTosha Brown
That’s the second thing. I think the third thing, too, is don’t stay in the space of ignorance. What we’re not… what is happening is we’re not reading. We’re not reading for ourselves. We’re not using our own critical thinking and analytical skills. And, you know, one way I will, say that is, you know, I… I fell victim to that myself. Let me tell you what happened to me, Jen. I was looking at a video, and something didn’t… in my gut, the video… now, it was a video of something that I actually would support, right? But something in my gut, it didn’t feel… something didn’t feel right, but it looked fine, you know, and I flipped on. And then later, I went back to it. I was like, later I went back to it. Later, later, later, maybe, like, the next day. And realized it was AI-generated. And so I’m saying that because this is a video that I actually had shared with a friend, right? Was not a legitimate video. Yes. Plus, this is a season. To build discernment, that every single.
Jen Rubin
Yes.
LaTosha Brown
And has something in our belly that tells us. I don’t know, this doesn’t feel right. Trust that.
Jen Rubin
This is the moment that… I hate to say it, but this is the moment that you can’t just trust your eyes. Use your eyes. Absolutely.
LaTosha Brown
And if it doesn’t feel right, it ain’t right. And so.
Jen Rubin
Absolutely.
LaTosha Brown
that… that people are also more discerning around where they’re getting information from, and if you get information that seems very sensational, right? Like, this is really… check the sources. At least check with two other sources. Or credible people like you, Gene. Like, like, what… I’m so glad and honored that you would invite me.
Jen Rubin
Oh, thank you.
LaTosha Brown
with you, because I think that you give… you have a platform that is authentic, that you’ve built, right, in a way that you are a trusted voice. And so I’m hoping that people will lean their news and receive their news from trusted voices in this moment.
Jen Rubin
Thank you so much, LaTosha. Thank you so much, and thank you so much for such insightful, wonderful advice. We’re gonna have you back. I love talking to you. We go way back, and we’ve come a long way. But take care, enjoy the day, and we will talk to you soon. Take care.
LaTosha Brown
Thank you for having me.
