This morning, the Pentagon announced that the U.S. is sending additional forces to the Middle East. What’s worse, Trump announced that the armed conflict would continue for at least a month. Why?
Now, the Supreme Leader of Iran, Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, is dead. If the whole point of the initial attack was to force regime change, what else is there for the military to do?
U.S. Senator Andy Kim (D-NJ) joins Jen to say in no uncertain terms that Iran does not pose a threat to the United States. Rather, the military strikes in the Middle East are yet another example of Trump circumventing the Constitution and living out his strongman fantasies.
Senator Andy Kim serves as the junior United States senator from New Jersey. Senator Kim represented New Jersey in the U.S. House of Representatives for three terms where he focused on strengthening America’s national security and standing up for our servicemembers, veterans, and their families as a member of the House Armed Services and House Foreign Affairs Committees.
The following transcript has been edited for formatting purposes
Jen Rubin
Hi, this is Jen Rubin, Editor-in-Chief of The Contrarian. We are delighted to have with us the Senator from New Jersey, Senator Andy Kim. Welcome, Senator.
Senator Andy Kim
Yeah, thanks for having me on again.
Jen Rubin
It is our pleasure! We have found ourselves, as of Saturday morning, in a war entirely of choice. Have you seen any intelligence indicating there was any imminent threat to the United States, to our allies, anything that would cast this as a defensive war?
Senator Andy Kim
No. To be just very blunt, no. We have not seen any information or intelligence of that nature. I am on the Homeland Security Committee, no notification to us of any threats to our homeland. And look, as someone who’s worked in these spaces before, you know, I worked in the National Security Council at the Pentagon, this very much seems to me a situation where President Trump made up his decision to strike Iran, and then the administration is trying to figure out how to be able to justify that, and I very much believe that this imminent threat argument that they’re making is really just an effort to try to allow Trump to do what he wants to do, which I just think is such a dangerous way to circumvent our Constitution.
Jen Rubin
The Constitution says very explicitly, only Congress has the power to make war. Now, we understand the executive power has grown over years, so that individual strikes, very short-term intervention, has been considered, at least by presidents, to be within their purview. But this is a full-blown regional war. In your mind, is this a clear violation of the power that is designated to Congress to declare war?
Senator Andy Kim
Yeah, this is as clear of a violation of our Constitution and the Congress’s ability to declare war as I’ve ever seen in my lifetime. I mean, this is something where the president himself used the term war. He used it blatantly and publicly in a video to the American people. He has stated that this is open-ended. He doesn’t know when this will be over. He has not defined any objectives other than vague calls for regime change, which, again, is so far beyond the scope of addressing imminent threat. If it’s about imminent threat, for him to go on and say it’s actually about regime change, he’s undermining his own argument in that way. When we look at the scope of this, again, as someone who’s done a lot of these types of efforts and planning, I’ve been in the Situation Room for the start of military conflicts. This is extraordinary in terms of the number of of strikes that we’ve taken. I mean, if you look at it, the strikes are very much akin to the opening salvo of the 2003 Iraq war. I mean, when you’re looking at something back then that at least had public hearings, at least had Congress engage in a vote on the use of… for the authorization of military force. No such thing exists at this point.
And when the president is ominously saying in such a callous way that service members have been killed and more are likely. Like, he just says, basically, that that’s what comes of war. No. This is not something where it’s inevitable. This is Donald Trump’s choice to start this war. It’s his choice to put service members in harm’s way, and many of them could very well either suffer fatalities or casualties. And so I just want to make that crystal clear to the American people. This is not some limited strike, this is not a strike in response to some imminent threat. This is a choice of Donald Trump’s, and that is not Donald Trump’s choice to make. That is the American people’s choice to make through Congress.
Jen Rubin
Polling suggests that the American people are not in favor of this war. One of the reasons may be that it’s going to cost us billions and billions of dollars. Since we don’t know the duration, do we even know how much this war is going to cost us?
Senator Andy Kim
No, and no one in the Trump administration is going to be able to answer that, and that is why this is so reckless to do. They absolutely should have come to us with that sense of objectives here. I always say, if you’re going to send servicemen and women into harm’s way, there needs to be at least two basic, decisions that are there to guarantee. One is that it is at the absolute last resort. Yes. That you have exhausted all other means, and that is just not the case here. I mean, we saw a really just pathetic effort to make it seem like we were engaged in diplomacy, when… which I just, as someone who worked in diplomacy, just say that this is not something that meets the mark. I mean, you cannot send Wyckoff and Kushner into diplomacy with Iran when they are also handling Russia and Ukraine. They are also handling what comes next in Gaza, in Palestine.
Negotiations with Iran, this is not a part-time job. This is not something that you can just do on the side. This requires real technical skills. The Iranians sent forward Arachi as their negotiator. He was their top negotiator a decade ago. He is somebody who is very formidable in his knowledge about the Iranian nuclear capabilities and what they are trying to pursue. We went into this without the same level of substance, with Wyckoff and Kushner that don’t have that level of depth and expertise. And so, that is not satisfied. And the second thing is, if you’re gonna send service members into harm’s way. You need to make sure that you are doing so with every resource available to make sure that they are successful. And again, we don’t know if that’s what’s out there.
You know, I don’t, as someone who is trying to think through what comes next, I don’t have the ability to say right now that we have the ability… that we have the number of interceptors, for instance, to be able to withstand, you know, the constant barrage of ballistic missile and drone attacks that we are likely to continue to see from Iran. Why is it that this administration continues to signal that there’s a likelihood of American casualties and fatalities? What is it that we don’t have for our service members right now, such that they are talking about this as it’s inevitable that there’s going to be more loss of life? That should not be the case. We should be doing everything we can, and they just haven’t come to us with any of that. you know, this is just such an absolute mess, and this is exactly what the American people want to avoid after two decades of this. I’ll just end with this. I did a town hall about a week and a half ago, before the State Union, and I asked the crowd of hundreds of people. Raise your hand if you believe that we should be in military conflict and war with Iran. Not a single hand went up. I said, raise your hand if you think that the American people’s voice needs to be heard here, and every hand shot up.
The American people are very clear with the fact that they don’t want a war in Iran, that we want a government focused on the affordability crisis and so many other issues, but this president is constantly showing that he is out of touch. and detached from the American people. He gave a 2-hour State of Union address, less than 3 minutes of that about affordability, less than 5 minutes of that about healthcare. You know, he is delusional in just trying to pursue a Nobel Peace Prize and show himself as the strongest person in the world. He is not focused on delivering for the American people.
Jen Rubin
Senator Kim, what you’ve described is almost exactly what we would call an unjust war. It was entered into without legal authority, it violates our international obligations, it is not a last resort, and it’s a war, frankly. of aggression. And so by every measure, whether it’s legal. Domestic law, international law, people’s sense of morality, this violates it. Unfortunately, your Senate… Colleagues on the other side of the aisle. Seemed to forever be in a crouch. Is there any hope of getting them to do anything, whether it’s a war powers resolution, whether it’s some basic oversight? Is there anyone other than Rand Paul over there who still believes in any kind of constitutional order?
Senator Andy Kim
Unfortunately, I’m… you know, I’m coming up empty so far in terms of some of my talks that I’ve had, which I just find so disheartening. I mean, look, some of it was, you know, I was in the room for the State Union address, and… you can see just the rabid following of Donald Trump there in that chamber. That’s honestly different than it was you know, 6, 7 years ago, when I came into Congress, there were still some Republicans that were willing to dissent. That has changed over the last few years, so I just want to hit home to the American people just how much the Republican Party has shifted in the last few years. They’ve replaced many of those that were more independent-minded with people who were just die-hard people who just pledge fealty to Donald Trump. I go as far as to say that there is no Republican Party anymore. been completely overtaken by this MAGA, you know, this MAGA obsession, this MAGA cult, and I just think that that is such a dangerous place, for our country, and… You have leadership in Congress on the Republican side that is buying into this, refuses to engage.
So as a result, and I’ve said this before on your show, that we do not have three functioning branches of government anymore, and that is just a sad state affair. But that doesn’t mean we shouldn’t try and push. We need a vote. We need to have members of Congress on record to say what they believe, and to have the voters then be able to hold them accountable, should they feel differently about this, which, again, the vast majority of Americans do. And we should be pushing for public hearings about this. You know, the administration is coming tomorrow to give us a classified briefing. That is not good enough. I’m honestly just sick and tired of this administration hiding behind these classified hearings, thinking that that checks the box of talking to Congress. It does not.
They need to talk to the American people. They need public hearings that are not just, you know, their, you know, staged Pentagon press briefings in front of this, press corps of their own choosing that’s been hollowed out over at the Pentagon by Hegseth. They need to answer questions that the American people have, and be able to speak to them about just, again, the lawlessness that we’re seeing unfold before our very eyes. Those are just the bare minimum of things that we should be pushing on, and I’ll continue to push as hard as I can to get the American people, you know, that type of Transparency, which, as of now, they have not had.
Jen Rubin
Well, the Republicans seem to be making the case that the only way to get Donald Trump to stop is to put Democrats in the Congress who are willing to stop him. This seems to be, rather counterproductive for their election arguments. Let me close with this, which is not perhaps the worst part of this, but certainly part of this, and that is the impact on inflation. Donald Trump is… concerned, he said that, you know, he doesn’t get enough credit for inflation. Well, he’s reimposed tariffs, and now he’s started a war, and when I last checked, oil prices were up to $80 a barrel and going higher. What is your concern in terms of inflation and the overall economic impact of this?
Senator Andy Kim
Well, across the board, this is just creating a level of chaos even beyond what we’ve seen before, and it is all the more concerning, not just because we’re potentially, you know, we’re going to see increased costs because of these skyrocketing oil prices and other challenges that are out there, but the other thing I just want to add, as someone, you know, who is at the Munich Security conference about two weeks ago. I’ve spent all of last week talking to leaders across the Middle East. I cannot tell you, Jen. how alone America is right now. I’ve never seen… I don’t think in my entire life we’ve seen America this isolated internationally and globally. And to enter this phase where we are at war with the 8th largest military in the world, you know, this is a population larger than Texas, California, and New York State combined. This is a whole different level of concern and threat than what we saw with Venezuela or elsewhere that the president has engaged in military action.
And to do this alone, to see us operating in this vein, that’s just gonna hurt us. And you see the damages that we did when we… engaged tariffs and punished our own allies and our partners. They are going to be less willing to come to our defense if we need them. And I just find that to be… so deeply unsettling as someone who spent my career trying to build global coalitions and strengthen our diplomatic means to find ourselves at war in the Middle East. with an open-ended effort with zero clarity about what our objectives are, and clearly no strategy behind it, and alone. And even more alone than we were in 2003, which already was abysmal with the Coalition of the willing.
We don’t even have a coalition of the willing, because we don’t have a coalition. What it’s doing to our service members, putting them in harm’s way without all of those efforts to try to support, is honestly just shameful, and a real dereliction of duty for a commander-in-chief.
Jen Rubin
Absolutely. Well, Senator Kim, it’s always a pleasure to talk to you. We will be watching for your efforts in the Senate. Let’s see if you can round up a Republican or two to join you. I’m not optimistic, I know you’re not optimistic, but thank you for what you’re doing, thank you for your expertise. And we will continue to check back in with you. So, have a great day. Thank you.
Senator Andy Kim
Thank you.
