The legitimacy of the court system hangs by a thread. If the Voting Rights Act is axed by the Supreme Court, it will set off a wave of destruction within American society — particularly for Black Americans.
In this special edition of The Tea with April Ryan, Janai Nelson, President and Director-Counsel of the NAACP Legal Defense Fund (LDF), joins April to cover what is at stake with the Voting Rights Supreme Court case, eliminated federal civil rights divisions, ICE roundups, and gerrymandering.
Janai Nelson is President and Director-Counsel of the NAACP Legal Defense Fund (LDF). Nelson formerly served as Associate Director-Counsel and as a member of LDF’s litigation and policy teams. She has also served as interim director of LDF’s Thurgood Marshall Institute and in various other leadership capacities at LDF. Prior to joining LDF, Nelson was Associate Dean for Faculty Scholarship and Associate Director of the Ronald H. Brown Center for Civil Rights and Economic Development at St. John’s University School of Law.
You can find Nelson and resources to help below:
IG: @naacp_ldf and @janainelson
Ways to support: https://engage.naacpldf.org/a/democracywatchemergencyfund
Callais Q&A: https://www.naacpldf.org/case-issue/louisiana-v-callais-faq/
Substack:
The transcript below has been edited slightly for clarity.
April Ryan
Welcome again to the special edition of The Team with April. I have a SHE-ro, with me, who they said was the female version of Bruce Lee in the U.S. Supreme Court. None other than Janai Nelson, President of the NAACP Legal Defense Fund. She’s also lead counsel for the Legal Defense Fund, and she was in the U.S. Supreme Court, knocking down the dragons, if you will. We say dragons, those who oppose the Voting Rights Act of 1965. And, Janai, thank you for joining us.
I heard you did a mighty work. You were standing against 6 members of the Supreme Court, six justices who we understand may not vote in the way in favor of the Voting Rights Act, in favor of what the principles of the act was, or is.
Also Louisiana and Calais and the Trump administration, you alone were battling them in court, and now we are waiting for the decision from the court. Are you expecting a decision to come out, January, February, because we hear that it may come early, so states can be ready for the midterms.
Janai Nelson
Yeah, that’s right. You know, this case… first of all, thank you. Thank you for those kind words, and all the wonderful support and accolades. I really, really appreciate it. And yes, I am very much expecting that this will be an earlier decision than what’s typical. Usually, blockbuster cases like this are decided at the end of the term, that’s when the opinion…
April Ryan
01:47
days, like you’re waiting with.
Janai Nelson - LDF
01:48
Yes.
April Ryan
01:49
The very last hours, actually, of the session.
Janai Nelson - LDF
01:52
June is usually a moment where we are all on pins and needles, and every day we are watching a refreshing SCOTUS blog, waiting to see what the new decision is. I don’t think that’s going to be the case in this case, and I’ll tell you why. You know, first, this was an expedited case. They were very clear from the very beginning that we needed to, you know, file briefs sooner than usual. We had a very truncated period in which
to get all the briefing done, and then they set argument right after the briefs were done. So, this was an odd case in that regard, and they also have information from the Secretary of State
you know, explaining why they need to have a decision as soon as possible, because they have deadlines at the state level, and need to get everything prepared for upcoming elections, and they need to know what map they’re voting on, and voters need to know. So I think everyone understands that there’s, some… some urgency to this, but I also know that this is too important.
For anyone to rush.
And that they need to take their time to do what’s right and figure out the right way to adhere to their own precedent and ensure that the rights of black voters aren’t,
Aren’t trampled on.
April Ryan
03:10
I believe in hope.
Janai Nelson - LDF
03:11
I do too.
April Ryan
03:12
I believe in hope.
Janai Nelson - LDF
03:14
I often do.
April Ryan
03:15
I know, but in re… I… I’m always hopeful.
But in reality.
Janai Nelson - LDF
03:20
But I get a bunch…
April Ryan
03:22
Nowhere is going.
This is a very Trumpian time, you know? I mean, look at what’s happening at the White House, you know, without any approval, and taking things down, and doing what they want to do. And people are buying into it for one reason or the other. Do you believe that the…
in January, February, that the 1965 Voting Rights Act will still be standing, or do you believe it will be demolished?
Janai Nelson - LDF
03:50
I believe it will still be standing.
Because if it comes down, the legitimacy of our court also goes with it, and I would like to believe that the nine justices on the Supreme Court understand the stakes.
and are also looking at what’s already happening, even with the Voting Rights Act in place. And that tells its own story. Without the deterrence of the Voting Rights Act, without the possibility of Black voters being able to vindicate their rights,
This is going to be a free-for-all, and Black voters will be the first group to be fully exploited with virtually no protection.
April Ryan
04:33
virtually no protection. We are voting without the full protections now of the Voting Rights Act, and then you’re talking about virtually no… I mean, we’re getting worse. It’s chiseling away, worse and worse. And I just want to bring this home. The Civil Rights Division in every department, every federal agency is gone.
You know, so there… who do we complain to?
And, you know, the red state attorney generals are not going to file suit. Let’s be honest, unless it’s something so egregious, and even there, they might close their eyes and turn their heads. We’re in trouble.
Janai Nelson - LDF
05:08
We are in quite a bit of trouble, and let me just say this. We will still have to fight and have a game plan and have a plan of action, no matter what the outcome of this decision is. If it’s a bad outcome, then obviously there’s even more we need to do, but even if it’s a good outcome and the right outcome, there’s still a lot of work to be done to ensure that we
Use the opportunity that these upcoming midterm elections provides.
To try to snatch our country back.
And to put people in place who understand
the enormity, the literal enormity of the threat, and are willing to act on our behalf and on behalf of this entire multiracial democracy. So, we got work to do no matter what.
And yes, our Department of Justice is, in my view, virtually non-existent. They’ve dismantled the Civil Rights Division, you know, they let…
people go from other agencies as well, from the Fair Housing Unit at HUD. All of that, they have taken away the entire government apparatus that is meant to enforce civil rights.
Which is why organizations like LDF and many of our allies are so important in this moment, because we’re filling that breach. We are the private DOJ in this moment, and that’s why we are bringing these suits and suing the Trump administration and holding firm to what we believe in.
April Ryan
06:31
And yeah, and speaking of housing, again, we’re back almost to, the Fair Housing Act of 1968 is basically abolished, too, almost, to a certain extent, because the civil rights lawyers
in HUD have been taken away, because now it’s basically redlining 2.0. Anyone can say, oh, I don’t want you to come here because you have too many kids or your color. There’s nobody to fight for them anymore.
Janai Nelson - LDF
06:55
Yeah, well, like I said, you know, we’re here, we can’t take every single case, but, you know, we and the many other civil rights organizations that exist are still enforcing the Fair Housing Act and the Voting Rights Act, and Title VII, and all of the protections that exist where we still have an opportunity to enforce the law. The other thing I should say that’s really one of these sort of subtle procedural matters that
May fly under the radar, but it’s huge.
in terms of what we’re just talking about, they are trying to take away, even if Section 2 remains and the Voting Rights Act is untouched, there’s still a threat behind this case
to take away the ability of private actors, like organizations like ours, nonpartisan organizations, to bring lawsuits on behalf of aggrieved voters. So they’re trying to make it so that only the Department of Justice can bring lawsuits, which is
ridiculous, if you look at what the Department of Justice is right now, and that’s precisely why you have private actors who are able to enforce these laws, because you don’t know if an administration is going to have the same duty of diligence to enforce our civil rights laws.
April Ryan
08:09
Yeah, the Department of Justice, as it is right now, is possibly taking on something that’s never happened before. Possibly, potentially could possibly pay the president.
Janai Nelson - LDF
08:17
Let’s see.
April Ryan
08:18
$230 million for his…
upset over Mar-a-Lago, the raid in Mar-a-Lago, the Russia investigation, all sorts of things. I’m not even going down that road. Let’s talk about redistricting. Something that this president, speaking of the president, something that this president has asked the state of Texas, other places to do, to…
to basically weigh down the scale so that Republicans can have houses, have their, have their houses, in the state, in state offices Republican, can have the federal offices Republican. Well, the federal…
federal elected people, federal, state elected people, mostly Republican, then Democrat, and the representation would not look like you or I, or our Latino brothers and sisters. Let’s talk about this redistricting effort, and particularly right now, North Carolina that’s come up.
Janai Nelson - LDF
09:13
Yeah, well, North Carolina really is emblematic of what we’ve been deeply concerned about, and that is, with this rush to try to seize control on a partisan basis, and trying to lock in almost a permanently entrenched imbalance of power in Congress.
and in state legislatures, you know, black people have been carved out of districts, our votes have been diluted, they’re using Black people as a means to get political power and outsized
amount of political power, and it’s exactly what we’re seeing in North Carolina, and in Texas, you know, and in many states across the country, that’s what’s happening. Ohio, I mean, name it. That’s part of what is in play here. And they try to mask it by saying, this is just
political competition. This is just, you know, the…
the rough and tumble of different parties trying to gain advantage. That in and of itself is problematic, because that means that we really don’t even have a two-party system, let alone, you know, more choices, which many voters are quite interested in. But it means that we effectively will have a one-party system, that we will not have a system of government where voters are electing
Candidates, and it’s really the other way around, where candidates are
choosing their voters and putting them in district lines. But at LDF, we are not concerned about party. That is not our focus. We are nonpartisan. We care about ensuring that black voters get to exercise their constitutional right to vote, to be represented free of racial discrimination. And there’s no way that this partisan power grab
can take place in certain states where there’s a high Black population without infringing on Black voters’ rights. And that is what we are deeply concerned about, and what we need to be amplifying
as loudly as we possibly can. We are not going to be some afterthought, or some political pawn for people who want to have entrenched power. And also, you know, there’s a reason that they come after Black voters. They also just don’t want Black people to have a voice, because they don’t like the issues that we care about, and there is a rampant history of discrimination in this country that we should never ignore, that is
Still at play today.
April Ryan
11:37
that history that a lot of people want us not to talk about, they’re banning our books, etc, etc. North Carolina, and the title on North Carolina.
is not coincidental. North Carolina was pivotal. It was very slim.
a slim margin between Joe Biden and Donald Trump in North Carolina. North Carolina is purple.
Well, I consider it purple.
It is purple, because it’s turning purple.
A lot of the college towns are very upwardly mobile, but a lot of those rural areas are still the holdouts, the Republican holdouts, the MAGA holdouts, if you will, as well.
But that’s one of the reasons why North Carolina’s target, is they want to tip the scales, as you said.
tip the scales in their favor. Now let’s go to California, Prop 50.
Again, another issue about redistricting, gerrymandering, all of that. Talk to me about that.
Janai Nelson - LDF
12:34
So, California has a very, very important referendum on the ballot on November 4th, and to all the Californians listening, please go out and vote. This is a critical election. So, California responded to this torrent of…
you know, redistricting ask to get different states to try to slant their maps in one direction, and they issued what I think is a very powerful counterpunch, and it’s called the Election Rigging Response Act that would amend the California Constitution and allow a way for
there to be a redistricting process in California in response to the imbalance
of power that seems to be cooking across the country. Now, I want to be very clear, at LDF, we don’t like gerrymandering of any sort. We think that it is inappropriate and improper to manipulate maps and, use this process
as a way to simply gain political power, raw political power grabs. But when you have that happening across the country.
And we have a body like Congress that takes representatives from each state
there has to be some mechanism, if the courts are not going to step in, and if our elected leaders are not going to step in, there has to be some way to push back against what is, frankly, a war on voters, and a war of power. And that’s what this Election Rigging Response Act seems to be doing.
And, you know, it’s up to California voters to determine whether this is something that they want to do, but that is the background and why California, why, Governor Gavin Newsom initially proposed this. It was in response.
To the mayhem that is happening across the country.
April Ryan
14:32
So, in your mind, and I know you just went before the U.S. Supreme Court.
What are the top issues that LDF is fighting this year?
Janai Nelson - LDF
14:41
We are fighting so many. We are obviously deeply concerned about voting rights. We’ve always been concerned about voting rights. It’s not simply because of the moment that we’re in, but of course.
that makes that even more important than ever. We’re also deeply concerned about the lawlessness, the consolidation of executive power, the violence that’s being visited upon Black communities in Black-led cities through the deployment of the National Guard. You know, what happened in Chicago was absolutely egregious.
What we saw happen just last night in New York, where black immigrants were targeted
and, and, and rounded up by ICE,
I don’t know what normalization is happening here, but we can never let this feel like it is okay, that it is normal. It is not. It is illegal, it is unlawful what is happening.
the militarized presence in Black communities threatens, you know, the lives of all Black people, and especially our children, who may not know how to navigate these difficult spaces. We are effectively an occupied people.
in this country right now. And it’s only going to get worse unless we push back. And we have been doing everything in our power at LDF to be vocal about this and to make clear the lawlessness of it, but it’s gonna take more and more people to step out and step up and be vocal about not wanting this to continue.
April Ryan
16:12
A dictator-generated police state, that’s what I call it. But what I want to do, and thank you for nodding on that, because everybody’s, oh, it’s authoritarianism and this, that, putting all these fancy, pretty words, so I’m just calling it what it is.
Janai Nelson - LDF
16:26
That’s true.
April Ryan
16:27
Without any legal jargon, just for my…
Well, my… you know, just from my sense of being at that special place.
optics have changed for 28 years, and understanding what democracy does and does not look like. But I… before we… before we end.
I want to salute you.
I want to… everybody’s been putting you on the news.
But the thing that I have not heard, and that’s one of the reasons why you’re here.
You a Black woman.
an exceptional woman, exceptional person, who happens to be Black and a woman.
argued in front of the U.S. Supreme Court before the first Black woman U.S. Supreme Court Justice.
That was history. I said, okay, and not only that.
Clarence Thomas and Kataji, two… it was history in so many different ways.
I don’t… I have not heard anybody talk about that with you yet.
But what did it feel? That was…
That was history. What did it feel like? What did it feel like, taste like, and smell like? Because I know you remember the moment. It’s like a song from back in the day. What did it feel like standing before Ketanji Brown Jackson, woman to woman?
Janai Nelson - LDF
17:40
It was… it was phenomenal. It was absolutely phenomenal. She is brilliant. She’s brilliant, she’s fire.
She’s so prepared, she’s so thoughtful, and she’s able to put people through the paces, you know, me and others, even my opponents, but in a way that is professional.
and that meets the standard and role, that… the exalted role that she occupies. She’s just, hands down, absolutely incredible.
April Ryan
18:12
And explain the example that she used in justifying
keeping Section 2 of the Voting Rights Act.
Janai Nelson - LDF
18:20
Yeah, I mean, this goes to show, you know, how her mind works, and how she’s able to break down concepts so clearly and cleanly. So she said that Section 2 of the Voting Rights Act should not be
Limited in time, because it is simply a tool
that we use to measure discrimination. It doesn’t tell you exactly how you need to solve it once you measure it. It doesn’t say, you know, anything beyond, we’ve got a problem. And she used an analogy to a tape measure. She said, effectively, you know, this is a tape measure. You measure something, you determine what the length is, or, you know, the extent of it, the scope of it, the problem.
And that’s all it is, it’s a detector. You know, I like to call it a thermometer. It’s a thermometer to see, you know, do we have a temperature or not? Is somebody sick? Are there any, you know, foreign bodies here that we need to address? And then you get to the remedy, and you figure out whether it’s the right remedy. So, one of the things that it was so critical to impress upon all the justices is.
If you have a problem with the remedy, if you think the wrong prescription was issued, then change the prescription.
You don’t throw out the thermometer, or the tape measure, or whatever, you know, tool you want to insert there. You don’t throw that device out that is so critical to
making sure
our 14th and 15th Amendment rights are not being violated. We need a tool to periodically check, or when we have indication that there’s a problem, we need something to make sure that people’s rights are not being violated. And then we figure out the remedy. And if for some reason Louisiana got the remedy wrong, then it’s on them to go back and draw the right one. But it is absolutely not the right response to try to
narrow or end the Voting Rights Act.
April Ryan
20:14
That’s powerful. All we need is just to take the temperature. It feels a little hot, let me see if it’s really hot. Hello! That’s all bad!
Janai Nelson - LDF
20:21
Real basic. It’s real basic.
April Ryan
20:24
That’s why I needed you to explain this historic moment. And, you know, and this is all about this second Black district in Louisiana, people upset about it.
That’s right. Only about the second Black district in Louisiana people are upset about. It’s gone to the Supreme Court, and it could ultimately change the whole scope.
Of redistricting in this nation.
Janai Nelson - LDF
20:46
That’s right.
April Ryan
20:47
Janine?
Janai Nelson - LDF
20:47
On a map, I just have to say this one thing. On a map where white people in the state of Louisiana are still overrepresented.
in their power.
April Ryan
21:00
Nine districts, and only 2…
Janai Nelson - LDF
21:02
There’s 6 districts.
April Ryan
21:04
Okay, yeah.
Janai Nelson - LDF
21:04
Six districts, and the white electorate is about 58%, and they have control right now over
4 of the six, so they have control over 66% of the districts, even though they’re only 58% of the population. That’s fine. It doesn’t have to be proportionate. The Voting Rights Act says nobody has a right to proportional representation. So black people representing roughly 33% of the population
have control over two districts, and they are upset about that. Upset about the fact that there is…
there are now two opportunities for Black people to represent, you know, themselves, if they choose, or determine who’s the best person.
And, you know, leaving out the fact that 42% of Black people in Louisiana live in majority white districts. So, the whole thing is so absurd that it’s hard to make sense of it. It really is. It’s so absurd, but it went to the U.S. Supreme Court, and it goes back to what… Twice. Yeah.
April Ryan
22:08
It goes back to what your grandma and them said, you can’t have just a little bit without somebody wanting to take that. That’s, you know, that’s what it is!
It’s common sense! My gosh! Janae Nelson, thank you so much. Janae, Janae, Janae, you are history.
Janai Nelson - LDF
22:24
Thank you, April, I appreciate it.
April Ryan
22:26
Thank you so much for joining. Thank you for sipping tea with me again.
