Last Wednesday, a federal judge ordered that the Broadview immigration detention facility in the Chicago area improve its conditions. After hearing testimonies from individuals held within the facility, U.S. District Judge Robert Gettleman called the reports “disgusting” and that “to have to sleep on a floor next to an overflowing toilet — that’s obviously unconstitutional.”
Similarly, a separate judge, U.S. District Judge Sara Ellis, banned ICE and other federal agents from using force against journalists, as “the use of force shocks the conscience.” Whether the orders are followed remain to be seen.
On the latest edition of Looped in With Lynn Sweet, Jen is joined by Sweet, Chicago Sun-Times’ special correspondent, to give us the latest from Chicago along with a discussion on the Senate Democrats’ decision to try and re-open the government.
Lynn Sweet is the Chicago Sun-Times’ special correspondent for Chicago Public Media, and was previously their Washington Bureau Chief. She appears frequently on CNN & other outlets as an analyst and previously worked at the late PoliticsDaily.
The following transcript has been edited for formatting purposes
Jen Rubin
Hi, this is Jen Rubin, editor-in-Chief of The Contrarian. We’re delighted to have back with us from the great city of Chicago, Lynn Sweet. Lynn, good to see you.
Lynn Sweet
Hi, thanks for having me.
Jen Rubin
Absolutely. Since we last talked, Gregory Bovino, gave some testimony, and there were depositions, and the judge was not very pleased with him, and, issued a follow-up to her original order. There were also separately, a hearing and testimony given before Judge Gettleman, regarding the Broadview facility, which, sounds like a, really a horrific place, at least it was, at the time that he was hearing the testimony. Tell us about those and what’s happened since, though.
Lynn Sweet
Well, let me kind of… I like trying to give you the new splashes first. So, it is very possible, according to our reporting, that Gregory Bovino may be leaving Chicago to move on. Now, whether or not this means the absolute end of Operation Midway Blitz, you know, it’s still evolving, but as we say, again, let me read from our great Sun-Times coverage, which you can find at suntimes.com, no paywall.
The Trump administration’s aggressive deportation campaign in Chicago is expected to soon ramp down as U.S. Border Patrol Commander Gregory Bovino and many of his fellow agents prepare to move on to another city, according to two law enforcement officials, and a source told John Seidel, our great federal court reporter that Bovina could be leaving as soon as today.
Now, whether or not this means it’s the end of this federal presence in Chicago, it remains to be seen. You know, DHS put out a bunch of statistics that we are double-checking about all the crime that they have, brought down in Chicago with you know, just big numbers and big statistics. I don’t even want to repeat them here, because they are not verified yet by our independent reporting.
So whether or not that encourages them to keep people here, kind of a la Washington, D.C, or not. Now, in the meantime, what does this mean for the court cases? I don’t think they go away. There was an appeal now pending of a lower court ruling of the use of the agents and what they’re allowed to do, and, in this case, brought by a number of journalism organizations, and that’s now pending in the Seventh Circuit, plus their workplace is dealing just with the terrible conditions in Broadview.
And, I mean, here’s what remains to be seen, the Broadview Detention Facility is not going to go away, and the thousands that were rounded up, are they…Are they going to stay there? When are they going to be removed? And I would be… I’m just kind of spitballing here, but if Bovino and some agents move on, does that necessarily mean that the federal agents will not be, trying to run the streets of Chicago looking for people to pick up. So, some of this is work in progress as we talk.
Jen Rubin
Absolutely. Do we know why he is moving on? Is it because they want to do the same thing in another city? Is it because these orders are becoming too bothersome for them? Is it because they’re not getting the numbers that they want out of Chicago? What do we think is the reason?
Lynn Sweet
No one has provided a reason yet, and, you know, we’ve talked about him. He is a singular figure in this. It is rare to have, in a military action or a… even law enforcement, to have one person be so much the face of a Border Patrol push, or an ICE push, yet there he is, the one man who’s not wearing a mask, the one man who always has his name on.
And, so we could theorize, and again, everybody, I don’t know, maybe there’s another city That he’s going to be deployed to, to replicate the techniques that he used in Chicago? You know, there was talk of Trump wanting to have the immigration efforts emulate more of the tougher tactics used by, Border Patrol than ICE. When I say tougher, some of these tactics have been questioned in court. They may… some of them may be of dubious legality, and there is just a stream of lawsuits that exist right now.
Due to things from car crashes to picking up people who were citizens, so there’s still a lot to detangle here and figure out what is here. But I don’t see how, given Trump’s emphasis, that this is one and done. And you move on, and everything restores to the way it was before they were here. So, you know, more to come, still.
Jen Rubin
Absolutely. The Broadview facility, one of the things that came out loud and clear in those hearings, where this was not intended to be a long-term facility. It was supposed to be a place where you processed people, they came in, they went out, they went someplace else. Now it’s being used, like the judge said, like a prison. And they’re just not set up to do that. They’re not equipped to do that.
How do you think that’s going to be dealt with? Are they going to have to move people out? Are they going to alter the facility? How do you think they’re going to cope with a facility that is being used in a way it wasn’t designed to be used?
Lynn Sweet
See, here’s the new world we’re in. Let’s say, I think there was one judge who actually wanted to go and visit this facility. Yes. You could retrofit it, but I don’t know how long that would take, or just transfer people to other places that are proper jails, not prisons where you hold people for short-term stays while you process their, where you process them or, let them go if there’s no legal reason to keep them. But the witnesses who talked about, who were there, talked about sleeping in false, filthy conditions, shared toilet, crummy food And these are people, some of whom should not have been there, and….
Jen Rubin
It’s wrong.
Lynn Sweet
It is one of the things that has to be fixed with this facility as to how it’s going to be used going forward. But let me put this out, Jen. We don’t know if the Trump administration will follow court orders, and that is of the… that is something to, analyze here.
Jen Rubin
Absolutely. And we’ve seen that with Bovino, he was not following the order, and he had to get dragged back in, and the judge had to hear it all again. Because of the publicity that Broadview got, there was a protest of a bunch of moms last week who came out and peacefully protested, sat down in the middle of the street, and they were forcibly removed. What kind of reaction was that? Were people upset that there was an overreaction? Do you think they handled it appropriately? What was your take on that whole incident?
Lynn Sweet
I’m not sure why they were removed, and forgive me, I am not confident enough that I have absorbed enough of the facts of this one to speak, but in general, there are organized protests there. There were people, Clergy of faith on certain Friday, as it was called by one rabbi who was talking about it from the pulpit on Saturday, that, clergy go on Friday, and I want to remind everybody that there are protests at Bridgeview over immigration policies even before this latest chapter that we’re in now, who were active in the movement would go there and protest, so… so having some protests there aren’t new. And also, it’s interesting, isn’t it, Ken, that Broadview could be used as an organizing principle. It’s a physical place to go and gather.
Jen Rubin
Exactly
Lynn Sweet
Now, there are other flashpoints within Chicago. There were press conferences today in a Mexican… in Mexican-American neighborhood called Little Village, where people and officials were protesting, the way, were protesting Trump policies. So, Broadview is the place that’s, I think, in the national eye, because there is such an eagerness to stop protesters from protesting if they are not harming anyone, or in any significant way, impeding what anyone is doing.
Jen Rubin
You know, it reminds me of Los Angeles, where if you want to protest, everyone goes to Westwood and goes to the federal building there, and it has a very nice parking lot, it has a lawn, and that has become, like, the de facto place if you’re not downtown, which is the alternative site. So it is interesting that because of the way the government is operating in these places, they are creating these, like, tentpole locations, which, I’m sure the organizers appreciate. Same thing in Portland, where Tim Dickinson has been covering it there.
They now have a place for the blow-up frogs to go. So I think, this is, Federal workers, being furloughed or having to work without pay, and then it came to the end. Senator Durbin, the WIP, was part of this group. Now, I’ve found it odd, and maybe this is part of the kabuki dance, that the whip, who is normally the guy who whips votes for the majority, was the guy who was kind of leading the rump group. Query whether that’s really an appropriate role for the whip, but anyway.
He did it, it is over. There’s been really a very strong backlash to that. At the same time, you have people saying, well. How is this ever gonna end? So, what is the reaction in Chicago to what he did, and how do you think, if at all, it influences the race to replace it? Is that putting pressure on those candidates to be more forceful, more aggressive, more, you know, the fighting spirit.
Lynn Sweet
So, of the three leading candidates, Raja Krishnamoorthi and Robin Kelly are House members who already said they will vote no when this measure comes from the House. Juliana Stratton, the Lieutenant Governor, said you should keep on fighting, but I, I wish it was just more explicit, and just, you know, in the end, you have to vote yes or no, urging you to fight, it doesn’t mean anything to me, so I think she was, when you have a statement like that that doesn’t clearly say, if I were in the House or the Senate, I would have voted no. Now, she probably didn’t want to,
Maybe she didn’t feel the need to… Go burn a bridge with Durbin. He hasn’t endorsed. There are stories out this morning from our political writer and, you know, raising the question of, you know, what… what’s gonna happen with that?
But I have a thought here to Dick being the number 2 Democrat in the Senate. One, it’s our… Listeners and viewers may know, he is retiring, so, no one could go after him. I think all 8, of all 8, no one is up in 2028.
Jen Rubin
Correct.
Lynn Sweet
And that lets you to believe that something was. Like a kind of a curated group, doesn’t it, Jen?
Jen Rubin
Yeah, exactly. I think that’s fair to say.
Lynn Sweet
Oh, so, I seek wisdom with my friends, and my, one of my high school friends and I were talking about this, and, you know, he was frustrated because family member really needed to get on a flight today for a medical procedure in another city, and maybe they’re on the road driving, for all I know. And the essence of what he said is, and he does have strong views, but he said, they’re supposed to govern, so govern. And he… he kind of synthesized and summarized my view, and that is: You have to govern.
And there is no evidence that another 40 days of a shutdown would fix the question of reinstating the subsidies for the Obamacare or Affordable Care Act. So, this vote that Jeanne Shaheen was very proud of, saying we could write the bill, we could get the vote. I don’t know what the point is, it won’t be highly unlikely to pass the Senate. If it did, it wouldn’t pass the House, and Trump wouldn’t sign it. But I do think, in the end.
You have to live in the real world. And you have to govern. Now, the final straw is Trump is an asymmetrical president. We know it. And he doesn’t… Suffer from a consequence like other political figures do. So the issue of not getting the SNAP, the food stamp payments out, that is an issue that may not affect everybody except those who get it. Not really a broad issue that could maybe cause people to really just get mad at one side or the other, or people who were mad anyway. But then, this sudden constriction of air traffic. is… Hit at a populous solar plexus.
And there is no good way then this was going to end. See, Trump was willing to do something that was unthinkable, once again. And shutting down air traffic is one of them. The Transportation Secretary is supposed to be at O’Hare today, as we speak, I think later in a few hours, to talk about the cancellations. But just think of the… if you don’t care about the consequence of the people who may not be able to travel. You really are putting pressure on the Democrats to do something to just end this quickly and fight for another day. Now, I know you called them Neville Chamberlain, and here we are on the contrarian, and I have a different point of view.
I read your piece, and I don’t see how anything… I understand the thought, and I understand, you know, every local Democrat was dishing on Durbin, Our headline had a big… our front page had a big picture of Durbin with the words CONDEMED with D-E-M art, and quite clever. But didn’t these 8 Democrats, in a way, do a favor? Let the Democrats get mad at them, but for the moment.
You just got things moving, because how would you have seen this ending with the restoration of the insurance summaries? You tell me. I read your piece, every word. Where were they?
Jen Rubin
I think there are two main complaints about how this whole thing played out. One is we all know, because it’s not just magically 8 people who happen to be, the people who are not up for re-election really were not on board with this, that the group was 12 people. I’ve heard numbers as high as 18 people. Now, if that is the case.
Why did they begin this in the first place? Or why did they set the expectations so high? You can… you have to go to war with the army you have until you have a different army. And I think there’s a school of thought that rather than put the country through this, and have to go to court for the SNAP beneficiaries, and face the airline thing, that they should have, at that point, made… taken the vote. They’re gonna take another vote in January. They can take a vote every week if they want, and gotten the same result, meaning pointing the finger at the Republicans, but without this agony.
I think the other part of it is a question we’ll never know. And this kind of goes back to the nature of Dick Durbin and the people who were involved. And that is, they exude weakness. They exude a willingness to give away the store. It wasn’t but a week into this thing that the conversations, I believe, began. And so, if you’re gonna negotiate with these people, don’t send these people, because they are gonna get out poker played every single time. Now, we never know whether a Harry Reid, for example, would have gotten a better result, and I think of him as sort of the counterpart to the Nancy Pelosi. That there are certain leaders that don’t take the troops into fights, unless they’re gonna win, and they figure out a way to win at least half a loaf.
And I think there is a general sense that this group of people are not those people. Granted, there’s one Nancy Pelosi we talked about last week, who has come along in a generation, but there are other much more effective groups of leaders. So I think two things have kind of come together. One is kind of a disgust that they didn’t think this through, and why did they start this, and did they really have to get such a non-crappy deal at the end of it?
And secondly, is it just time for this entire face of the Democratic Party to go? That these people are viewed as old, as too collegial with the Republicans, as too naive? And they did themselves no favors at that press conference. It was ridiculous. And the naivete expressed, and the, notion that, well, we’ll be really disappointed if we don’t get that vote kind of dug their own political craves. It would have been better to have no press conference and just say, okay, I’m… I threw myself on the ropes for the party. So I think that’s the flip side of that. But what I want to know about Durbin is what what reaction that’s going to have on his replacement. Has the race now become more about who’s the more aggressive candidate, as opposed to who’s the most experienced, or who is the most progressive. And it’s been… become more of a personality fight to get the toughest, meanest, most aggressive person now.
Lynn Sweet
Well, I don’t think that has happened yet. The three frontrunners, they’re all going to be left to center, the votes will be the same, there’s no John Fetterman among them, there’s no Sanders among them, and everyone is anti-Trump. So what I don’t hear from any of them is…So you’re anti-Trump, and what are you going to do about it? Raja Krishnamoorthi put out a package of bills, his proposal, to prevent, you know, someone like Trump ever doing it again. Well, that’s not gonna move. There’s a lot of things, I suppose, in hindsight, people could think of.
That may prevent another Trump, but that’s…we’re kind of… it’s too late. Like, it’s this matter of term limits. Things that, even if you think you’ve legislatively fixed, are we now really going to have to worry about Trump seeking a third term? I would say that the race is characterized right now with none of them having an idea.
Or a way of talking about what they would do in the Senate, that would kind of set themselves up as different or more imaginative. And in a way, that’s what I’m waiting to see.
I’m just kind of surprised that no one has had it yet, because I would say in other Senate campaigns, there would be maybe some big national issue, like you’re for or against getting something in Illinois, or if I’m elected, I’m really going to be the champion of, you know, I’ll be there to get the—
Jen Rubin
—Transportation funds, or whatever.
Lynn Sweet
—or I’m here to be… you know, one of the things that, Durbin is known for. And his legacy right now will have, you know, this’ll be…That this isn’t summing up his career, how, whatever his role is and why, and maybe we’ll find out more what Durbin’s gift is, is getting original issues born.
He is the one who invented the Dreamer Movement. He is the one who read a monograph by a Harvard professor named Elizabeth Warren, who is proposing something crazy, as I think Durbin explained to me. You know, kind of like a consumer finance watchdog, just like, you know, just like the FTC is for toys, and I said, oh, that could be interesting. Okay, banning smoking on airplanes, going after credit card, Usurious interest, getting clear language on your credit card bill that says if you don’t pay your bill, if you just pay the minimum on your $4,000 balance, it will take you 98 years to pay this thing off.
But he’s an original in identify… oh, proprietary schools, and the rip-offs that they were on students. There is no one else who I’ve covered through the years who has been able to give birth to issues. And that is… that’s a big deal. And of these three, there is, no one that I would say can… has that kind of a legislative, creative stream that they have yet to show. So the answer is, I don’t know. We’ll see where it goes. Raja has a ton of money and is running ads, a lot of which still make fun of his name, but… and, you know, he is saying, I’ll… I’ll really fight Trump. You’re gonna vote no, and then, you know, when this bill comes up, and you tell me what you can do.
Jen Rubin
Well, I think you and I have exactly the same question, which is, how do you distinguish yourself from a crowd like that? And who’s gonna pick up on this, very, aggressive vibe that I think is, that we saw last week with Mamdani’s victory, and even with two moderate women who are running for, the governorship, who really, you know, stressed the affordability, who really kind of were very adamant, Mikey Sherrill promising to freeze energy, you know, costs and so on.
So, I think in that race, in the race in Iowa, in the race in, perhaps Maine, if multiple candidates stay in, in the race in Texas, it’s going to be very interesting to see which Democrat is able to distinguish himself or herself from the crowd by being the innovator, the, you know, the lightning in the bottle.
Lynn Sweet
Or just someone who could provide, some hope that things could turn around in a way, or, look at these, I’ve covered, and I’ve known all three of them, especially Raja Krishnamoorthi and Robin Kelly, and they are very, you know, they’re good speakers. Juliana Stratton’s a good speaker. But in terms of you’re measuring them against, you know, the great orators and the charismatic figures or the Bernie Sanders, you know, few measure up to that.
But, that’s why it’s not clear what will be the breakaway, but there hasn’t been a lot of focus on their campaign. Again, this… and so much of their enormous reporting resources right now have been on all the events brought on by the stepped-up immigration enforcement in the city. And the filing period just ended last week, so the field now is solidified. And to point out, another part of local national history.
We have an all-time high. Meaning, for my history covering this, of open democratic seats.
Jen Rubin
Yes, we’ve talked about that. And you have 5, right?
Lynn Sweet
We have five. You are so up on this. .
Jen Rubin
Yes, well, I… that’s why I read now the Sun-Times religiously, folks, because that’s where you keep up. That’s where you keep up.
Lynn Sweet
And I hope everybody reads it, become a member, throw us a few books, we’d love to have you be a member. Sometimes.com, get the information. So…Except for Jerry Garcia, who did a switcheroo…
Jen Rubin
Right? Yeah. Right.
Lynn Sweet
You know, you wait until it’s, you know, just minutes before filing, so no one else is going to quit. You kind of surreptitiously pass the petitions for your chief of staff, and bingo, she’s in. Some people are saying they may run independent, but in each of the other four districts, for Raja Krishnamoorthi seat, Robin Kelly’s seat, Danny Davis’ seat, and Jan Jankowski’s seats, there’s about a dozen people in each of those districts who filed. So this is a big field, and remember, in Illinois, in the March primary. A small plurality win, campaign.
Jen Rubin
Yep.
Lynn Sweet
Lynch, your ticket to Washington.
Jen Rubin
Absolutely. Well, we are going to pivot very quickly to those midterms, I suspect, and we are so fortunate to have you, Lynn, so we will have you back, following the never-ending saga of Chicago and all of its wonderful politics and characters and struggles, and we love hearing from you, so we’ll look forward to seeing you next week.
Lynn Sweet
Thank you so much.
Jen Rubin
Take care, bye-bye.
