In two weeks, Virginians have a crucial decision to make. As the state “most impacted” by the shutdown and rapid fire, careless DOGE cuts, the economic future of Virginia hangs in the balance. The Democratic nominee for governor, Abigail Spanberger, joins Jen from the campaign trail to discuss what Virginians care about the most: affordability, employment, healthcare, and the state of political affairs.
“CNBC…. took away our number one place for business and said, in part because the DOGE effects have been so substantial on our economy.” Spanberger shares, highlighting the devastating impact DOGE cuts, tariffs, and Trump policies has had across the state. Private sector employees have felt the ripple effect as well, seeing a significant drop in business revenue in federal employee-populated areas.
Spanberger and Jen also discuss the hits against healthcare, which are threatening premium prices and healthcare accessibility for all Virginians.
The transcript below has been edited slightly for clarity.
Jen Rubin
Hi, this is Jen Rubin, Editor-in-Chief of The Contrarian. We are delighted to have back with us Abigail Spanberger, who, of course, is the Democratic nominee for Governor of the Commonwealth of Virginia. Welcome, Abigail.
Abigail Spanberger
Thank you so much for having me. I appreciate the opportunity to, talk with you again.
Jen Rubin
I think we spoke last time, before the government shutdown, which is never a good thing, and now this government has announced that they are going to try firing people, not just furloughing people, and they’re going after Democrats and Democratic programs. What is that all about, and how does that affect Virginia?
Abigail Spanberger
Well, Virginia just continues to be so gravely impacted by the Trump administration, the choices that they are making, the punitive policies they’re putting in place. Certainly, we witnessed it since the beginning of the Trump administration with the Doge effort firing tens of thousands of Virginians. The impact on our economy has been significant, not just federal workers, but government contractors have lost their jobs, businesses, particularly those in places where we have a concentrated number of federal employees, Northern Virginia, Hampton Roads, small businesses have felt the impact, restaurant owners. I mean, it’s been across the board, a painful experience. Then you couple that with tariffs and threats to healthcare and the impending catastrophe to healthcare, and we are now in this moment where we are in yet another week of a government shutdown. And rather than demonstrate any type of leadership, rather than say, you know, okay, we’ve got to get to a place where we fund the government, and try to move us in any particular direction, we see President Trump and his administration, principally the OMB director, want to use this government shutdown as a reason, as a permission structure, to fire more federal employees. And in fact, last week, they fired 4,000 employees. Now, thankfully, there was just a judge who stepped in. To say that that is not something that they can do. But even, you know, sort of in concert with the judge saying they can’t move forward with those firings, OMB had said that they were going to fire at least another 10,000. And so the impact on federal employees is profound. The impact on Virginia’s economy is substantial, and particularly, you know, moving away from the firing issue, which is, I mean, an outrage. There’s the fact that during a government shutdown, you know, per law, one that I voted on and Donald Trump actually signed in his first term, federal employees are supposed to be guaranteed back pay. Now we hear Trump and others, including this now Speaker of the House, say that, in fact, maybe that law that we all voted on, and Trump signed into law, isn’t real, and perhaps they won’t get that back pay. So the impact, even, of that threat on federal employees is horrible. And then there’s federal government contractors, you know, and that runs the gamut between, you know, professional engineers and folks who are doing phenomenal contract work with the government. It also is custodial staff. It’s restaurant and food workers, in government buildings, those folks are furloughed, and they won’t get back pay. And in some cases, those folks have already lost jobs because the contracting company that they work for maybe doesn’t see a path forward. And I’ve already been hearing from some business owners and some employees who have both fired employees because of the shutdown. And those who have been fired because of the shutdown. And so the impact on Virginia… I’ll stop there, because I can keep going on and on, but it really… it demonstrates just what this chaotic administration in Washington is doing to the American people, but importantly to Virginia’s economy and to Virginians.
Jen Rubin
Your opponent doesn’t seem to be opposed to any of this, or willing to criticize the president. That seems bizarre for the person who wants to be the governor of the state of Virginia, which is the most impacted state. Can you explain that, or, explain what that, argument might be about?
Abigail Spanberger
The… the answer is no, I can’t explain it. It makes no sense to me, is… is… is my sort of earnest answer, but when I look at it through a political lens, I can… I can, you know, explain this behavior, how outrageous I view it to be. And, you know, notably, our governor, Republican governor, has not spoken out, even, you know, back during Doge, hasn’t spoken in defense of federal employees, hasn’t even urged, you know, a gentle, sort of cautious tone of, well, certainly, even if they kind of supported the Doge effort, let’s be methodical about it. Don’t just start mass firing Virginians, which is what happened. Didn’t even hear a sort of tepid defense of Virginians. And the lieutenant Governor, who’s my opponent, it’s the same thing from her. You know, in fact, during the original, you know, onslaught of firings from Doge, my opponent, as the Lieutenant Governor of Virginia, told people, you know, quote-unquote, and said, you know, who made flippant comments, who among us hasn’t lost a job? This isn’t a real issue. The media is trying to make it a real issue. You know, all of these sort of defensive pushing it off. I mean, obviously not talking to voters, not talking to Virginians, not listening to CNBC when they took away our number one place for business and said, in part because the Doge, effects have been so substantial on our economy, we’re no longer ranked one for… number one for business. But now it continues, and the same when we have farmers across Virginia who have, you know, their input costs are going up, whether it’s fertilizer or machinery, they have lost entire markets because of retaliatory tariffs. Not a word. And now, during the government shutdown, the impact that that’s having on Virginia, my opponent, again, the current Lieutenant governor, hasn’t… hasn’t said anything, not even a sort of general attempt at appeasing the president by saying, oh, maybe, you know, President, please, we hope you’ll bring people together, we know you can do it. Not even that sort of effort at a gentle push towards ending the shutdown. You know, notably, our current governor was in the White House, in the Oval Office the other day. You know, talking about the president’s newest scheme here or there, but not talking about the devastating impacts of the shutdown, of Doge, of tariffs, of, you know, the so-called One Big Beautiful bill on Virginia. And I think my opponent is still trying desperately to get President Trump’s endorsement, which he has not given her yet. So I think perhaps it’s just an effort to appease him, so that he might help her electorally. But it’s to the great expense of, you know, the people that she purports to want to serve.
Jen Rubin
Right? Your opponent seems to want to talk about everything, other than the main issue facing Virginia. She wants to talk about the Attorney General race, she wants to talk about, you know, no kings protests, and, smearing Americans. All sorts of things. But, in fact, the polls keep telling us, voters keep telling us, affordability, affordability. Tell us about the impact of the tariffs, and really the failure of this administration to address, anything approaching, cost of living. And in fact, the prospect that health insurance is going to go sky high because of, their position on healthcare.
Abigail Spanberger
You know, it all goes back to… and, you know, though I wasn’t on the ballot in 2024, every sort of piece written after the 2024 election said, oh, it was an affordability election, which, to be very clear, as somebody who’s out campaigning for others, in people were talking about affordability, both voters and people running. The member of Congress who replaced me in Virginia’s 7th District, Eugene Vindman, was talking about these issues, and people were talking about them because issues of affordability, the cost of eggs, all of it was kind of central to the percolating worries that have only gotten stronger. Everywhere I go in Virginia, I hear about the cost of housing, right? The cost to buy a house in Virginia has gone up 18% over the last 4 years. And so, if you’re, you know, looking to buy, or been considering or saving up, as you’ve been saving for your forced house, the cost to buy a house has gone up 18%. If you’re a renter, over the last 4 years, the cost to rent a place has gone up 14%. Last year alone, it went up 11% year over year. We were the third highest increase in the country. And that impacts people’s sense of, you know, their mobility, their ability to move for a job, their ability to move out on their own, you know, give up their roommates, or move out of mom and dad’s house, or start a family. And the impact is dire. And so, we need a governor who has a plan to increase housing supply, contend with housing costs, and certainly that is among the plans that I have released. We’ve also seen increases in energy costs, and this is something that we have been seeing them percolating, and really in Southwest Virginia, we’ve seen the greatest, fastest increase, but everywhere across Virginia, energy prices have gone up. And that’s, again, when you get that monthly bill, it contributes to that lack of steadiness. And now, because of the one big beautiful bill, as they called it. Virginia will be the second most impacted state in terms of the impact on our healthcare in the nation because of that bill, after Washington State is in the unfortunate position of being number one. It’s a hit of $26 billion over 14 years to Virginia’s healthcare system. It’s the likely closure of no fewer than six rural hospitals. We have already had 3 rural health clinics in Virginia announce their closure because they are planning for how to contend with the full impacts of this bill once it starts to go into place. That’s in addition to the estimated more than 300,000 Virginians who will lose their healthcare coverage because of Medicaid. And now we are in a place where, we are seeing the rising rates of health insurance, and, you know, frankly the idea that anybody on the ACA might lose their subsidies is in and of itself a problem, but that is coupled with the fact that insurance rates for private insurers are going through the roof. Again, in part because now they’re trying to balance out for the fact that there’s this enormous upheaval as it relates to Medicaid, this enormous upheaval as it relates to, you know, hospital provider tax and supplemental payments. And so the impact, who it is going to fall on, it’s going to fall on people who have employer-provided health insurance, we are going to see our rates go up, and frankly, it’s going to fall, you know, tragically, on those who will give up health insurance risking, potentially, their health, because they can’t afford the rent, and they can’t afford their childcare, and now their health insurance rates have just gone up precipitously and enormously. And again, when those folks walk into an emergency room because they couldn’t get the preventative healthcare, they couldn’t get the antibiotic that they needed. The cycle continues, and so even for those who say, oh, I don’t rely on Medicaid, this won’t impact me, that is just not true. It is going to impact all of us, and it is going to be dire. And now, the last thing I would mention is tariffs. And we’re already see… seeing price increases, you know, as a mom of, at least one… one of my three daughters plans to trick-or-treat this year. The others have gotten a little… a little too old for it, we’ll see. You know, Halloween costumes feel, seem, I’d have to go back and look at what we spent over the years, but prices are creeping up. And, you know, the estimates are that the trade wars that President Trump has started is increasing prices on average for a Virginia family, about $2,300 a year. And we’re gonna really see that, particularly as we get closer to the holidays, and holiday pricing goes up. Even some of the things he did with the de minimis, you know, import, fees, there’s now a backlog. So, in addition to the fact that you’re paying, you know, additional tariffs on, kind of, all goods coming into the United States. now that they all have to be processed through customs, there’s now a huge delay. I was talking with a company based in Virginia that does a lot of you know, mail order work, and they import a lot of their goods, and they said, actually, their supply chains are getting all, you know, disrupted, because they buy small amounts here and there. And there’s, like, weeks upon weeks added to the delivery timeframe. And so the crushing nature of everything they’re doing, it’s going to come to a head in the future. And, you know, frankly, when I look at our race, the fact that, back to your original point. All of this is happening in the middle of our gubernatorial race, when people everywhere I go are talking about housing, they’re worried about healthcare, they’re worried about their jobs, they’re worried about the energy bill, they’re worried about their kids and their opportunities into the future, and workforce development, and this level of uneasiness that is pervasive. And my opponent isn’t talking about any of it. And that is, I think, a real signal to people about whether or not… I mean, at brass tacks, you have a candidate who doesn’t even recognize, or is unwilling to recognize, the seriousness of this moment. In addition to the fact that Virginia’s going to face some economic hardships, apart from the impact on healthcare. The fact that, you know, we… we have a lot of Virginians who are out of work who used to be among our steadiest employed. You know, federal employees are certainly not the highest earners, but they’re folks who go to work, and work a 40-hour, sometimes, you know, many times more, but they get paid for their 40-hour week. They’re paying taxes into the general fund for the state, and now you know, because of Doge and because of the shutdown, that’s not happening. And so it is a really substantial moment for Virginia. And it’s a dire one.
Jen Rubin
Last question, you’ve been so generous with your time, not only today, but, over the last few weeks and months. Democratic governors now see that the federal government is not there for them. So they are banding together, for example, on healthcare, on functions that the CDC used to provide, that they’re not any longer. How important is it, frankly, to have a governor who’s going to work with other governors in order to mitigate the harm that’s being done to Virginia?
Abigail Spanberger
I think it’s essential. I think it’s absolutely essential that here in Virginia. particularly bearing the brunt in so many ways of this Trump administration and this Congress, that we have a governor who will, you know, protect our rights, try to steady Virginia as much as we possibly can, join with other states to ensure that we’re, you know, putting out best recommendations or best practices as it relates to keeping communities healthy and people employed. And I think we also see a really solid example of what does it look like when there are governors, I mean, even in emergency response, right? Some of the pushback that we have seen related to the president’s attacks on FEMA and on emergency response has come from governors who know what it means to have or not have that type of federal support. We see, amid the shutdown, the administration being so punitive and pulling back federal dollars, like, appropriated federal dollars, as, you know, appropriated by Congress. So, you know, certainly there’s the constitutional question of whether he even has the right to do this, but to see him do it in an extraordinarily punitive way is… I mean, it’s a disgrace, and you need a governor, frankly, that will stand up and make that clear. In our example here in Virginia, you know, our local public radio has endeavored to write very clearly what it is that Virginia has lost in terms of federal grants. And some we know well, there’s some teacher residency programs through our universities that have been extraordinarily valuable to adding to our pipeline of teachers. Those federal grant dollars, gone. Some of the gun violence prevention and community safety dollars flowing into Virginia, gone. Mental health resources, federal dollars, gone. But it’s been a sort of bit-by-bit, onesie-twosie approach, where it just so happens that, you know, people are aware of a great program. That program is either, you know, goes away, or seeks very publicly funding elsewhere because of the loss of that federal grant. What is not clear, because we don’t have the numbers, is just how much money the federal government has taken back from our research institutions, from our universities, from our communities, from our infrastructure projects. And, you know, hats off to local reporters who have put in FOIA requests to say, you know, let us know, because this information, of course, is being tracked within the governor’s office. Please provide the information related to what’s been pulled back, what grants has Virginia lost, and they’re refusing at this point to make that information available. And so, I think the public here in Virginia would be outraged if they understood just how much, Right? Conservation dollars that are essential for Virginia farmers to implement a rotational grazing program that, yes, has some benefits to, you know, the strength of you know, the soil health, but also is extraordinarily beneficial to those farmers, to that local industry, to that local economy. Dollars just not only sucked away, but promised and planned for, and then taken back. And so, you know, having governors join together in a united voice to basically work to mitigate the impacts of the administration is monumentally important. But actually, even just having a governor who’s willing to say. How many federal employees were fired under DOSH, right? With clarity. How… how many people, how many small businesses have shut down and they have given the reason Doge. How many federal dollars are no longer flowing to our, you know, top-tier universities and research institutions? How many of our nonprofits that people rely on, or are, you know food banks have lost federal dollars, right? That information is not available, and when requested, our, you know, the… our Republican governor and lieutenant governor, my opponent won’t give it. And so, it’s essential that we have a change here in Virginia, and I think many voters, they see the stakes of this election. And, you know, certainly if anyone wants to learn more about the election, my website’s Abigailespanberger.com. We’ve got our affordability plan, our school plan. And our, economic growth plan up on the website, in addition to ways that folks can support from afar… afar. But the election’s coming up quick, and, We know it’s the opportunity for us to make a real clear example of what happens when, you know, you’ve got one candidate talking about the issues, talking about the things that keep people up at night, talking about the overreach, the overstep, and the hurt caused by the Trump administration. And one candidate who’s not. So, it’s… it’s a forward-looking campaign versus, you know, one that’s you know, trying to play possum, I guess. Well, it is two weeks from Tuesday, and you cannot say that Virginians don’t have a clear choice.
Jen Rubin
And this is one of the few places in the country where people have a chance to register whether they think things are going in the right direction or the wrong direction. So, we encourage everyone to get out and vote, and thank you again for your time, Abigail. It’s always great to see you, and, I know you have a busy day and a busy couple of weeks again, so, good luck to you.
Abigail Spanberger
Thank you. It’s exciting here on the ground, so we’re… we’re running hard towards November 4th, and it’s… it’s fun, we’re gonna work hard, and we’re gonna win. There’s no other option.
Jen Rubin
Take care.
Abigail Spanberger
Thank you, appreciate it.
