Nancy Pelosi served as a champion for San Francisco — and America at large — for over 35 years. Speaker Pelosi was the first woman appointed as Speaker of the House in 2007, only to make history again in 2019 when she ascended to the role once again. Known as a shrewd political and legislative strategist, Pelosi ushered in a new era of social justice with her advocacy for environmental protection and equality and against policies such as “Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell.” Speaker Emerita Pelosi will likely be most remembered for spearheading and successfully passing the Affordable Care Act, a landmark healthcare reform law. Adept at whipping her caucus together, Pelosi leaves behind a legacy unmatched by her Congressional peers, but championed by the many representatives she has, and continues, to mentor.
Lynn Sweet is the Chicago Sun-Times’ special correspondent for Chicago Public Media, and was previously their Washington Bureau Chief. She appears frequently on CNN & other outlets as an analyst and previously worked at the late PoliticsDaily.
Transcript has been edited slightly for formatting.
Jen Rubin
Hi, this is Jen Rubin, editor-in-Chief of The Contrarian. I am thrilled to have Lynn Sweet, who has covered the retiring Speaker, Nancy Pelosi, for as many years as anyone, and has seen her when she was in the minority, when she was in the majority, when she was Speaker, when she retired from the Speakership. Take a big picture look, Lynn. What is Nancy Pelosi’s legacy going to be?
Lynn Sweet
She’s one of the most influential political figures of our time, and then the subset, the most influential female political leader, probably within our lifetimes, if not more. Sometimes, by the way, in comparison, I don’t know, maybe in 1870 there was someone else, but really, Pelosi was a towering figure. And in her retirement, she, if she chooses to, still will be. I think she said at one point, when she became Speaker Emerita, a title she embraced. by the way, she doesn’t need to be Speaker to be influential. Frankly, she doesn’t need to be a member of Congress to still be influential, or still help in fundraising, or still be used to be a sounding board or still issue statements that may make a difference in the future of the Democratic Party. But one of the things I do remember is just her, absolute civility and grace in a way that is not… I have not seen very often in other public figures. Now, not that she couldn’t have a sharp word or a snap, if need be, but or, you know, or in a press scrum, maybe cut a reporter down, but it was done very smartly, and matter-of-factly. With… with a really efficient…With a great deal of efficiency. And he was also one of the most articulate political figures I have ever covered. She had a gift that few have, maybe Bill Clinton, for making the complex simple, and that’s so.
Jen Rubin
Yes.
Lynn Sweet
And political communication.
Jen Rubin
I think what distinguished her, at least from my vantage point as a speaker, was how well she knew every single member. She knew everything about them, she knew their district better than they do, so she had that facility to then bring people together. I know what you need on this bill, so I can tweak it just enough to get your support. She kind of learned that at her father’s feet. Tommy Alessandro, who was, at one point the mayor of, Baltimore and kept lists of all of the politicians, so he, she saw this growing up, and that, in fact, became kind of her calling card.
Lynn Sweet
Also, she lived in the real world. I think she said this, am I… am I… is this apocryphal? That when you are speaker, the only thing that counts is getting to 219. So, Congressperson A or B or C might have a great idea, a great concept. Medicare for All. Showing the votes. Showing the path.
Jen Rubin
Yes, exactly.
Lynn Sweet
You know, there are things which is why one of her greatest achievements was getting that vote over the line for the Affordable Care Act, known as Obamacare. I think she has cited this time and time again as one of the legacy items that she left behind.
Jen Rubin
Absolutely. And she also, when she picked an issue, she was all in. Very early in her career, Tibet, and China Human Rights became a really governing passion. And she pursued it, whether it was a Republican in the White House, whether it was a Democrat in the White House. And she didn’t do it for any political benefit. Most people don’t really care about foreign policy, frankly, but that was a passion of hers.
Lynn Sweet
Actually, what is not as well known, I think, in her career were the years she spent on the Intelligence Committee. That was…one of… one of the things she did that really didn’t get a lot going, because you don’t name a bill, usually, it doesn’t have the kind of legislation, but I think it…
taught her a lot. She learned a lot. When you’re on the Intelligence Committee, you often can’t even discuss a lot of what you know. You know, you have these closed briefings, you go into a secure room to read intelligence, and you have to be careful not to talk about it, but it does make you whip smart, if you choose to, about understanding the world around you and the situations that Congress is dealing with. And I think one of the things Pelosi always impressed me with is that she did her homework. And that’s… and to follow up on your point, one of the ways she knew what a member wanted was how to deliver it. how to, in a sense, do something in a bill that would add a vote and not lose a vote. As our listeners may or may not be aware in a very controversial measure where everything’s kind of calibrated, if I give you what you want on item A to get your one vote, if I really seem to cave on that, I will lose four votes for people who really don’t want it. You know, so he knew how to do the math. Literally. Right. Make it work, and go far enough to… to get you. And, you know, I… again, she isn’t… wasn’t against leaning on people or making phone calls, and… she wasn’t…You know, she wielded the power she had, to make, called Prime Committee Assignments to… to give you some kits. To do it. She used all the, all the… all the arrows in her quiver to make things happen, but in a very smart and efficient way. Because she knew the goal was 218, or 219 votes. You know, sometimes, by the way, our listeners, the vote varies by one or two, depending if there are vacancies.
Jen Rubin
Right.
Lynn Sweet
Right. You know, so that’s kind of the mathematical genius, and we have seen that play out in these last few years with the Republicans, where they sell power by just less than 3 or 4 votes in some cases. And that’s why, we have seen the difficulty in governing, And, and the, the…the speakers that have come and go on the Republican side.
Jen Rubin
Absolutely. When you look back on her votes, one of them was to push through in the Bush presidency, the bailout, because she realized that that was essential for the country, certainly the ACA, but in some ways, she kind of became this iconic figure during Trump 1, because of the way she stood up to him, the putting on the glasses as she left the White House, the lecturing him, at the Sign up. cabinet room, the tearing up of the State of the Union. I think there was something about him, and she…expressed this recently, that really got in her craw. He was not a patriot, he was not someone who believed in the Constitution, and that she couldn’t tolerate. She had political adversaries, but Trump was a bridge too far for her, and she behaved like it.
Lynn Sweet
Also, She did that because she had a low tolerance for people in important positions who she deemed not serious.
Jen Rubin
Yes.
Lynn Sweet
However. He was an asymmetric force, as he remains as we speak, that makes him very hard to effectively counter, unless you just have the votes to shut him down. And that’s why her…her, you know, that famous… where she was wearing that red cape and the sunglasses coming out of the West Wing after a meeting. it…It didn’t move the needle, however. It helped, I think, cement her legacy, so that we’re talking about her as the fighter, there, it’s Nancy Pelosi, the fighter, rather than, I think, her larger career, which is Nancy Pelosi, the strategist, who was able to.
Jen Rubin
Absolutely.
Lynn Sweet
her way to getting things done, as opposed to just trying to throw the spotlight on what President Trump was or was not doing, or on talks that were or were not going anywhere. Now, I wonder if Nancy Pelosi were the Speaker. We’re in the middle of more than a month of a shutdown right now. As smart as she was strategic as she was, could she have done anything to end this, and I think that it is such a tough position now. Certainly, she would have, and I think she did support this attempt to restore the healthcare subsidies for people who,
Jen Rubin
Absolutely.
Lynn Sweet
as we speak, might be getting notices of people who have Affordable Care Act or Obamacare.
Jen Rubin
Absolutely.
Lynn Sweet
are getting, big increases. So, the strategic road ahead isn’t clear right now for Democrats in the.
Jen Rubin
Absolutely.
Lynn Sweet
to… to get… try and get the win on that point, or to reopen government. And the… the situation we’re in now is so unique, I don’t know what she would have done, but we’re not talking about we were talking about her legacy, and this isn’t her time. She had a good sense of timing, I thought, to step down as Speaker. Yes. And I mean, physically, you know, she would sit in the back, you know, and now and then I was observing the House chamber, and I think she relished the role of Speaker Emerita, because she was freed from running the House, and she could.
Jen Rubin
Yes.
Lynn Sweet
do her own thing, and maybe, there is a sense that she had that she was going to retire, and it takes a long time just to wind down a career as long as she has, and now she has clearly a year, to, to, have a year of getting ready to leave, and I think that’s the same for Dick Durbin in the Senate, who’s stepping down after a long career. You know, when you put yourself long off-ramp. It just lets you, maybe relish what’s coming, you prepare for it, and you could, if people choose to, celebrate. what you’ve done, though, of course, in this very tough situation we’re in right now, with shutdowns and the immigration push going on, it’s kind of hard to see any celebrations going on on the Democratic side at this time for a while, but in time and history, I think Nancy Pelosi, who has been the subject of many profiles and books, has a record that I think will stand up decently in history when the time comes to evaluate her, evaluate her contributions to House, Congress, and governing. In general, and in particular, the way she got things done.
Jen Rubin
Absolutely. And, you know, she reminds me a bit of basketball stars who sometimes retire, and then they take the victory tour, and every place they go to is their last time at that forum, at that arena, and so she will get her kudos. She’ll be remembered for many, many things. Passing the ACA, keeping the ACA, the passage of the bailout bill, so many other pieces of legislation under Joe Biden that never would have gotten through had it not been for her. And of course, she played a role in
moving Joe Biden out of the presidency. He probably will never forgive her for that, but she did what she thought was necessary. She at least saved the Democrats from a complete wipeout. And she goes out now, once more, having delivered a critical deliverable, and that is Prop 50 for California. So she leaves, perhaps her imprint still on the map of California, and I completely agree, she’s going to be known as, one of the greats, and I consider myself lucky just to have covered her, to have interviewed her, to have watched her, and I don’t think her likes, as they say, is going to come along anytime soon.
Lynn Sweet
Any quote that I remember, time and again, she would…Either start a sentence or a stream of thought, or end it saying, it’s the children, it’s about the children.
Jen Rubin
Yes. Exactly, exactly. Thanks so much for sharing your memories, Lynn. We will, look forward to, sharing more as her final year wraps up. Thanks so much.
