Yesterday, a federal journey determined that Ticketmaster and Live Nation have been monopolizing the live entertainment industry. 33 states and Washington D.C. came together to prove that the two companies were making unfair profits at the expense of venues, artists and consumers.
Now, California Attorney General Rob Bonta joins Jen to explain why he participated in the lawsuit and to celebrate the win. Importantly, Bonta notes that this administration is not interested in enforcing anti-trust laws. But, even without the money and resources of the federal government, states are still willing to fight for the interests of the American people.
Rob Bonta was sworn in as California’s 34th Attorney General on April 23, 2021. He is the first person of Filipino descent and only second Asian-American to hold the position. As Attorney General, Bonta launched the Housing Justice Team to advance housing access, affordability, and equity in California and secured a ruling that the Trump Administration’s directives to terminate National Institutes of Health (NIH) grants to public health research institutions in plaintiff states were unlawful.
The following transcript has been edited for formatting.
Jen Rubin
Hi, this is Jen Rubin, Editor-in-Chief of The Contrarian. I am delighted to welcome to our program the California Attorney General, Rob Bonta, fresh from a tremendous victory in the Live Nation Ticketmaster antitrust case. Welcome, and congratulations, Attorney General.
Attorney General Rob Bonta
Thank you. My pleasure. We’re excited about the ruling, and I’m honored to be here with you.
Jen Rubin
You took over the case because the federal government essentially bugged out. They made a very weak settlement. How difficult was it to marshal all these states? 33 states plus the District of Columbia. How big an undertaking was this?
Attorney General Rob Bonta
You know, it was tough, but we were up to the task. It was tough, especially since our partner throughout the entire case, until the eve of trial, when they bailed on us, was the federal government, who has the most resources, of course. And there is a long tradition of partnership between the federal government, whether it be the FTC or the USDOJ and the states.
But having seen their, you know, their sweetheart deal, their slap-on-the-wrist settlement that was weak and unacceptable, we knew we had to fight on and keep moving forward on behalf of the American people. to not allow this unlawful, egregious conduct to continue. So, we knew we had to find a way, and we found a way. And, you know, we were in talks, you know, Texas and California and, you know, blue and red states together, talking about this, and I’m grateful that it was bipartisan, that we were able to achieve this result for the American people.
Jen Rubin
Trust law is really about protecting the interests of the consumer, to get good service, to get reasonable prices. Why were you able to show that it was operating as a monopoly in a way that hurt consumers?
Attorney General Rob Bonta
You know, we had a lot of incredible evidence, and so we were confident in our case that we brought in front of this jury. We had things like executives at Ticketmaster talking about robbing these people blind, and saying how stupid they are to pay these prices, and laughing at them. And we also explained the business model that Ticketmaster Live Nation has. They are involved in multiple areas of the live music industry.
They sell tickets, they promote the performers, and they also represent the venues. And they basically say, if you’re gonna use one, you gotta use all. They tell performers, if you want to get access to the best venues. you gotta use our promotion services. And they tell venues, if you want to get the best performers. you gotta use exclusive Ticketmaster ticket sales. And so they really, use this anti-competitive conduct and leverage, their different, the different parts of their business to benefit here. And it’s not because they’re better, it’s because they’re acting illegally, and that we could not accept, and would insist that no longer continue.
Jen Rubin
This is a huge victor. Of course, the company may choose to appeal. What are some of the lessons that might be applicable in other litigation, for example, and what are some lessons for the American people about what the states can do for them?
Attorney General Rob Bonta
Well, in terms of the lessons going forward, you know, tell the story. Make these executives eat their own words. You know, just show what they said. And, you know, when it wasn’t a public statement, when no one was looking, when they were talking with, you know, their quote-unquote guard down, and here’s what they were saying, you know, that consumers are stupid, and they’re robbing them blind, and then just describe the conduct. People get it. Juries are smart. We laid it out. You know, sometimes in antitrust case, a lot of them go to judges, and the parties waive their right to a jury.
We thought a jury could fully understand all the evidence here, and we wanted to present it to them. And we also thought that, like most Americans, there was some likelihood of some personal connection to this issue. You know, everyone’s had an experience of trying to buy a ticket on Ticketmaster, and it’s slow, and it’s expensive, and it’s a terrible experience, and people think something’s fishy because the prices are so high, and this is vindication, that it wasn’t just something fishy, it was illegal. They were treated wrongly. They were victims of the unlawful conduct of a megacorporation. And then what the show’s about states is very, very important, and I think that is the big takeaway here. It doesn’t matter if the federal government’s gonna do their job or retreat from it and abdicate their responsibility.
The federal government has long played a critical role here, but this administration is not interested in fairly and firmly applying and enforcing antitrust law. They seem to want to pick winners and losers, help their friends, enrich themselves or others. And so if they’re not gonna do it, we’re gonna do it. And I think people were wondering, do states have the legal authority? Do they have the resources? Do they have the talent, the ability to take these cases to the mat against big corporations and get a result? And I think the answer, was given yesterday.
Yes to all of the above. We can do that in states and all these cases. We will continue to do it, regardless of what the federal government does. We’re in a Nexstar Tegna case right now. We’re investigating Paramount Warner Brothers now. We are objecting under the Tunney Act to HP Juniper, which seems to be a corrupt A settlement, and we will continue to take action wherever it is necessary.
Jen Rubin
There was obviously a letter signed by about 2,000 people who work in the motion picture television news industry regarding Warner Brothers and Paramount. I know you’re in the investigative stage, but how important is it for people to tell how they are personally affected, whether it’s fear of layoffs, whether it’s loss of diversity in entertainment, whether it’s having a competitive news environment. How important is that for people like you, who then have to litigate these cases?
Attorney General Rob Bonta
It’s absolutely irreplaceable for people to speak out and talk about, you know, stakeholders who stand to have an adverse impact, or any impact, to share what that is. I’ll note the courage. involved in those who spoke out. I know that they’re worried about retaliation, or being blacklisted, or not having opportunities in the industry going forward, but yet they spoke out, and that’s powerful.
And I think there’s strength in numbers. There’s a lot of folks who are speaking out together. And we need those stories. We need that evidence of what will happen if this merger is consummated and allowed to go through, so we can adequately assess what our next step will be. So, I very much appreciate all of the input from so many in the industry who are sharing their stories about what this merger might mean to them.
Jen Rubin
At that, shadow hearing, or the spotlight hearing yesterday, you had members of the House, members of the Senate, they don’t always get along. But you didn’t have Republicans. Are they not interested in fair prices? Are they not interested in consumer satisfaction? It’s curious. In Live Nation, you had Republican Attorneys general. What’s the matter with the people on Capitol Hill?
Attorney General Rob Bonta
I don’t know, you know, there’s opportunity and possibility of some bipartisan works, you know, see Ticketmaster, Live Nation, and sometimes you don’t see it, and I don’t know why. The through line’s the same. that affordability for Americans, for consumers, is at stake. It’s the top issue that folks are thinking about these days, in addition to, you know, the durability of our democracy.
So, everyone you know, Democrat and Republican should care, and in the past, this has been bipartisan, where antitrust enforcement was bipartisan, and it should be. We all believe in free markets. We all believe consumers should be treated fairly. We all believe that there shouldn’t be illegal conduct in our market, and our market should be free and fair, and people should be able to prevail based on the quality of their product or the strength of their ideas, not because they’re cheating.
And so, it’s sad, unfortunately, to see Republicans not being engaged in the way that they should. I hope they’ll see opportunities in the future to do so. Maybe it’s because of, you know, they’re following their lessons from Trump, a person who screamed that he was going to take care of affordability on day one, and has raised it in so many ways, not by just failing to enforce antitrust law, but by imposing illegal tariffs, not once, but twice. entering a conflict with Iran that has raised prices. You know, he’s been the president of raised prices, but states are going to continue to do what we do, especially blue states, to protect our consumers, center them. championed them. Fight for them against the illegal conduct of corporations that raise their prices.
Jen Rubin
Trends we’ve seen, and what gets people very angry, is it seems that we are having a society that is increasingly of an elite few, an oligarchy, and that they take too much of the resources of society, they have too much power. And the rest of us suffer. Talk to us a little bit about antitrust, but also how your other litigation fits into that. People don’t usually think of winning against the oligarchy in court, but it’s part of the fight, isn’t it?
Attorney General Rob Bonta
Absolutely. I mean, you know, look at Paramount Warner Brothers. Secretary of War Hegseth and seemingly Donald Trump have called for this merger to go through to help the Ellisons. I mean, that’s how they’ve said it. You know, get David Ellison in charge right away. And, you know, of course, CNN, is, you know, hangs in the balance here, after, you know, CBS has already had the experience it’s had there.
And so, you know, there is a really populous through-line here. You know, we just use the law and apply it as is appropriate, but The law is designed to protect against corporate abuse, the elites acting unlawfully to hurt everyday people. And attorneys general, I’m very grateful to say, have a key role in being able to stand up for our people, to be champions of the people, the consumer, the little guy. When the big guy, the mega corporations, are abusing their power. And hurting the little guy. That’s a role we take very seriously, and we will continue to take it very, very seriously.
Jen Rubin
Well, I think it’s an untold story, not only that you, but, so many other attorneys general are cooperating. How many suits have you brought now against the Trump administration, or against, monopolies that have been blessed by the, Trump administration?
Attorney General Rob Bonta
We brought 66 lawsuits total against the Trump administration, and, I think we have at least 3 lawsuits, challenging, corporate consolidation that the Trump administration has approved, and unfortunately, we expect that to be the trend line, that he’s not gonna really do antitrust enforcement. He’s gonna pick winners and losers and help his friends and enrich himself. And his network. So, we know we gotta step up, because the people are counting on us. They deserve, someone who’s gonna fight fairly and firmly to enforce antitrust law, and we absolutely will.
Jen Rubin
Well, thank you, you’ve done. Congratulations again, and folks. when elections come around, you may not know what the Attorney General does. This is what the Attorney General does, so it’s very important in your states, make sure you choose wisely. Thank you, Attorney General Bonta, and, good luck as you, file your other suits and investigations as well. It’s a pleasure.
Attorney General Rob Bonta
Thank you, Jen. Pleasure’s mine.
Jen Rubin
Take care.
