On Easter Sunday, Trump published an absolutely unhinged Truth Social post threatening to dole out war crimes against Iran. The American people have been dealing with the consequences of electing a madman to the highest office for over a year now, but this outburst may take the cake.
Neera Tanden, President of Center for American Progress, joins Jen to unpack Trump’s ravings and non-existent plans for “winning” the war in Iran. Tanden emphasizes the illogicality of continuing the extremely costly war while the average American struggles to afford basic necessities like healthcare and food.
Neera Tanden is the president and CEO of the Center for American Progress and the CEO of the Center for American Progress Action Fund. She was previously the Domestic Policy Advisor to President Joe Biden and director of the Domestic Policy Council, overseeing some of the administration’s signature achievements, including efforts to lower the cost of prescription drugs and expand health insurance coverage.
The following transcript has been edited for formatting purposes.
Jen Rubin
Hi, it’s Jen Rubin, Editor-in-Chief of Contrarian. We are so happy to have back Neera Tanden, who is, of course, the CEO and Head of CAP. Welcome!
Neera Tanden
Great to be with you, Jen, as always.
Jen Rubin
It is great to see you. Let’s start with the war, and Trump’s absolutely insane threats to commit mass war crimes. What was your reaction, and what should members of Congress be doing?
Neera Tanden
Well, I think, the fact that we have a president who is, you know, just putting out the most deeply unhinged statements, during, a pretty serious war in which, you know, people are dying, and you know, the news today, this morning, is that, the, U.S. and Israel are bombing universities now in, in Iran…you know, I think we’ve run out of words. Concerning, tragic, horrifying, situation.
And, you know, I think what’s really irresponsible is that the Congress hasn’t even had a public hearing about the war. No, you know, it’s not like Hegseth has been up there testifying. This war has been, you know, it is in its second month, and we haven’t heard from the Joint Chiefs of Staff, the Hegseth outside the context of these somewhat insane press conferences that he holds. really talking through in a way that would make him accountable to senators and members of Congress what the end goal of this war is. So, you know, I mean, President Trump has a lot of bluster, but fundamentally we are, as I said, in month two, and we don’t know what victory is, and we don’t know how to achieve that victory. And so, I think the lesson here is don’t make a madman the President of the United States. Like, they have…
A madman who has the most powerful military on the face of the earth. Giving him keys to that is profoundly dangerous, and and we are all literally paying the consequences for that.
Jen Rubin
Absolutely. Of course, one way to make a point here is to deny the president any more funds. He’s, presumably gonna ask for $200 billion more in defense spending. He’s going to ask for a defense spending that goes up to $1.5 trillion, a larger increase than we’ve seen in anything since World War II. What should Democrats be saying about that, and the cuts that presumably would be needed in order to pay for all of this?
Neera Tanden
Yeah, I think that these are two issues that we, you know, Democrats should really focus in on. They are slightly different. The President put forward a budget on Friday, which, act calls for a $1.5 trillion increase to the Defense Department. budget, and, and really cut, tens of billions of dollars from, in various efforts to help average Americans, from Head Start centers to, LIHEAP, which is a way that makes it more affordable for working-class people to afford just the high heat and air conditioning bills. And this was a very, you know, this was a very expensive winter when it comes to heating bills, and, you know, we expect an expensive summer when it comes to air conditioning bill.
So, the president’s view is fundamentally, which, you know, he kind of helpfully stated that we as a country can’t afford daycare or Medicaid, but we really need a $1.5 trillion defense budget. And so. I think Democrats should stand united, that that is actually getting your priorities 100% wrong. We all believe in a strong national defense, but you don’t need $1.5 trillion taken from, basically, care for kids, the most vulnerable children in America, to pay for it, and why are we why?
It just, like, I mean, did anyone know at the beginning of this that we didn’t have this war in Iran, then we’d have to pay for this war in Iran with, you know, like, it’s gonna be trillions of dollars over years for the Defense Department? And then there’s the war supplemental, this $200 billion, which is really about funding the maybe the present war, or future wars? It’s not entirely clear what the $200 billion goes to.
But I think that both of these areas are just, you know, it’s just insane priorities. I mean, I did not think Make America Great Again or America First was cutting programs that helped working-class Americans in order to fund wars that are really about foreign wars at this point. I mean, just like, we woke up one day, we had another Republican president, he decided to have a Middle Eastern war. It’s like, we just decided to go in the Wayback Machine, come back with George Bush’s foreign policy, except just much worse, just executed in the worst possible way.
Jen Rubin
Exactly, and to his credit, at least George Bush had a public debate about this. We had no public debate.
Neera Tanden
And to his credit, I mean, I was against the Iraq war from the get-go, but let me just say, George Bush recognized that a Middle Eastern war, when just the U.S. and Israel would have been a deep problem. So he did put together a coalition of four… of people, of countries within the Middle East and outside the Middle East, you know? So, here we just decided to go in a war alone with, Israel. into Iran, which is kind of a toxic brew, if you think about it, and then, on top of all of it, we don’t ask anyone, we just decide to do this war on our own, and then, when the Iranians take the Strait of Hormuz hostage, we basically say, the rest of the world, who we insult every day, this is your problem.
I mean, the really big challenge of this war, which, you know, I hope that we have a speedy end to is just the destruction of America’s leadership on the global stage, which is just an intangible that’s really hard to figure out how to get back to.
Jen Rubin
Exactly. We are now behaving as Putin did. He also, threatened and took out civilian infrastructure. We condemned it roundly. So, perhaps Trump is becoming more like Putin every day. talk about what you mentioned, which was the Strait of Hormuz. On one day, he says, we don’t need it. You guys can open it. On the next day, he’s threatening war crimes unless they reopen it. In point of fact, despite all the drill baby drill and the energy independence, we live in a global economic energy market.
We now see that, frankly, energy prices are going to be elevated for a very long time. about how Democrats address this. And what are going to be the consequences for ordinary Americans if they’re paying 40, 50% more for gasoline than they did a year ago?
Neera Tanden
Well, of course, paying a lot more for gas is a real pain point for families, but it’s really important to remember that gas prices, energy prices, gas prices, oil prices, they aren’t just what you pay at the pump. They really flow throughout the economy. Obviously, it affects air travel costs, it affects transportation costs, trucking costs a lot more money, which just makes all goods cost more money, or many goods cost more money. Petroleum goes into a lot of products, like clothing, etc, so it’s just inflationary across the board.
So, again, just to, just to, just rewind the tape. this guy’s elected, you know, on really a bed of lies, but he was elected on, I’m going to lower costs and not have forever wars. And he is starting a new war, and where we are all going to pay for this decision to go to war. It’s really crucial to remember this, because it is definitely the case that Israel has pushed for a war with Iran in the past, but every president really before this one said no, including Trump in his first term! But Joe Biden said no, Barack Obama said no, and it’s this one man who’s decided to go into war with Iran, and we are paying much more for it.
But just the whole world is paying much more for it. I mean, it is the case that, the Strait of Hormuz is an important channel. really for all of Asia, and there are countries in Asia now that are just having harder and harder time, getting just food and fertilizer and energy, and just imagine in those countries where people are like. I didn’t even elect this guy, and I can barely make it, and my life is so much worse. So I just think we’re all paying. It’s inflationary in the global order.
The best strategy to actually lower our gas prices is to end the war. It would have been really great not to start this war, but the longer it goes on, the more profound costs. And I will just say, just as a reminder, if the president, you know, we all talk about the threats that the president is making, the kind of unhinged threats to go after infrastructure. What we’ve learned is that the Iranians also have leverage.
You know, they are threatening desalinization plants in other countries, going after other countries’ oil fields. You know, just, this is a powder keg, and again. I, you know, having a madman in charge of a powder keg is a really bad idea, but it is deeply dangerous, and, you know, these are not events you can just immediately recover from, and the global economy is going to be in worse and worse outcomes, the longer this holds, this continues.
Jen Rubin
Exactly. You mentioned that the Republicans really are going to have a trouble, a big trouble, defending all of this. So, Trump’s solution is, we’ll mess with the elections. We can no longer persuade people to vote for us, so we’ll stop people from voting for the other guys. Right now, at least, it seems that the SAVE Act is gummed up in the Senate, although they may bring it back through reconciliation. And he has issued this executive order that puts all kinds of restrictions on mail-in ballots. I
think we’re up to 4 lawsuits now challenging these. How concerned are you that even if these measures fall by the wayside, there will be confusion, or people will be deterred from going to the polls? Is he setting up a situation where we’re gonna have chaos or confusion, either about voting or about the results of the voting?
Neera Tanden
Well, I think it is really crucial to recognize a few facts here. We should, we should plan for the worst. And be prepared for the worst year. It is hard and I just want to remind everyone, it is hard to mess with voting in multiple states. Just as a reminder, Trump sent, you know, Justice Department overseers into California’s election in November of 2025 for the redistricting ballot. But, you know, most people vote by mail there, so it doesn’t matter. I mean, it didn’t have any impact. But, you know, like, if we’ve learned anything from Trump and his, you know, kind of forces around him, they are very creative about ways to hold on to power.
I think the most important thing is that we have to be prepared for anything that happens. And, you know, when we hear of any shenanigans at a post office, or any restrictions in a local community around mail-in ballots, or anything like that. We just really have to elevate those stories as soon as possible, and I’m really proud of the work that the Center for American Progress is doing with many other groups. to try to both prepare, Secretaries of state, state AGs, but also to get the word out.
Now, it’s important to recognize that when people hear about voter suppression, it motivates a lot of other people to go vote. So, you know, it’s really important for us to get the word out about what they’re trying to do, but also recognize that they will try to send a message, ultimately, that you know, your vote doesn’t matter. And the most important thing for all of us to do is to say, your vote will be counted. It does matter, and the only way to have accountability for this administration is through voting. Now, they see the voting patterns just like you and I do. We’re seeing 12, 13, 14, 15%, 16%. In Texas, like, 30% switch in these movements from Trump voter, Trump elections, or people voting for Republicans to Democrats, and just massive shifts in kind of outcomes of elections.
So I think they will try shenanigans, but the worst outcome would be for us to psych ourselves out, like, oh, they were gonna do something. They’ve tried in multiple elections. In 2018, they sent National Guard into El Paso on Election Day. you know, I mean, they basically blanketed the city. These are not new strategies for them. It did not affect turnout. So, our, you know, we have to be prepared, but we also have to remind people. It is very hard to tinker with these elections across the country. The elections are run by states. It is important to get out the vote. It would be hard for them to actually accomplish real, fundamental, like, jiggering of elections across the country.
Jen Rubin
Let me end with this. for a very good reason. The base at times has been upset with Democrats for not fighting hard enough, or kind of being all over the map. But we’ve seen in special elections in 2025, and in the primaries, some very good Democratic candidates emerge, many younger candidates.
Talk to us, as we finish up, about the things that these candidates are doing right, that other Democrats can emulate. What is James Talarico doing? What did Emily Gregory, who won in Donald Trump’s, home district in Florida do right? What can other Democrats learn from these candidates?
Neera Tanden
Yeah, you know, I think the thing to remember is that a lot of the country is angry at what’s happening. You know, I mean, the difference between, you know, to just try to be optimistic, I know things are very grand, but just to be optimistic about the country, you know, what separates the United States of America from Orban’s Hungary, or Putin’s Russia, is that the country itself is angry at what Trump is doing. We can be angry at people who voted for Trump, but a lot of people voted for him thinking, he said all this crazy stuff, and he’s gonna bring the prices down.
And for me, you know, that wasn’t a close call, but, you know, for a lot of people, they are genuinely surprised by how radical his presidency has been, and how focused it is on everything except how their lives are getting harder. And so, I think there is an incredible opportunity to build a really broad coalition of voters, you know, Republicans who are upset about what is happening, independents are upset about what’s happening, Democrats are upset about what’s happening. And what you’re seeing is, when people build those kinds of coalitions, they are actually winning. I mean… This woman who won in the Mar-a-Lago district, the state senator who won in Texas, this Senate seat, SD9, a Senate seat, there, where, you know, they really did amass a kind of broad coalition of voters who are focused on how things cost too much. They put ideas on the table of how they were going to address high healthcare costs, high utility costs, etc.
And also created, you know, a space for people, welcoming people who voted for Trump, welcoming people who are independents turned off by what’s been happening in Washington. And I think you see in… the kind of campaign of James Tallarico, and let’s just note that for the first time, and… over two decades, in the primaries, more people voted for the Democrats and Republicans, and there were competitive primaries on all sides of that Texas race. It wasn’t just, like, the Democrats had a competitive primary and the Republicans didn’t. It was very competitive on both sides, but more people turned out for the Democrats, and I think that… That tells us that there is a hunger in the country for people who are willing to solve the problems that are in front of us, instead of, you know, follow the whims of what Trump wants the, you know, Republicans to do on any day. And I think the Iran war… is actually a demonstration of the weakness of the Republican Party that cowers to Trump every day and puts his ego ahead of your needs as voters.
Jen Rubin
This is what comes of a cult of personality, and it’s no coincidence that madmen and strongmen often go to war, because I think that’s going to help them. And the question is whether the country is going to tolerate it or not. So it’s great talking to you, Neera. As always, we’ll be following the budget, following the war. Following the primaries, so thank you. And thanks for all your friends at CAP who provide us with great data, great information. We really rely on them quite a bit, so we’ll look forward to seeing you soon.
Neera Tanden
Thanks, and thanks for everyone who’s fighting to protect the country. You included, Jen Rubin.
